The Death of the gods.

[Gregory Matthews]

The following is not for easy reading:

Dying Deities | Adventist Today (atoday.org)

 

[Gustave]

Thought provoking and well written article! 

[JoeMo]

I disagree with the article.  Jesus (Yeshua) IS God, every bit as much as His Father YHVH.  Didn't Jesus say He and the Father are One?

[stinsonmarri]

8 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I disagree with the article.  Jesus (Yeshua) IS God, every bit as much as His Father YHVH.  Didn't Jesus say He and the Father are One?

I disagree with the articles also. Ancient writer did not used the word god.

The earliest written form of the Germanic word "god" comes from the 6th century Christian Codex Argenteus, which descends from the Old English guþ from the Proto-Germanic *Ȝuđan. Codex Argenteus: Etymology and usage

The word God is a relatively new European invention, which was never used in any of the ancient Judaeo-Christian scripture manuscripts that were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek or Latin. The Origin of the Word 'God' STACK EXCHANGE
NETWORK

Catholic Encyclopedia: Etymology of the Word "God" (Anglo-Saxon God; German Gott; akin to Persian khoda ...).

YAHSHUA IS ELOHIYM and John says it also Paul in Hebrew.

In the beginning was THE WORD, and THE WORD was with ELOHIYM, and the WORD was ELOHIYM. The same was in the beginning with ELOHIYM.  All things were made by HIM; and without HIM was not anything made that was made. John 1:1-3 

The word one is not understood in English like it should. The Bible said That the Adams became one. We today say that husband and wife are one. So, are they one body or one in thought, meaning they are equal and should work together? So why is that so hard to understand about THE THREE ALMIGHTY ONES? THEY HAVE ONE THOUGH, THEY ARE EQUAL, THEY WORK TOGETHER. Here is proof that this the meaning of 'echâd. Strong says the first thing THEY ARE PROPERLY UNITED! Here is proof: YAHSHUA came up from the water and:

 And lo a VOICE from Heaven, saying, THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, iIN WHO I AM WELL PLEASED. Mat 3:17 WOY

In many ways and in various ways of old, ELOHIYM Spoke to the fathers in the prophets; in these last days HE has spoken to us in THE SON, whom HE Appointed HEIR of all; and by whom he made the worlds;  for HE IS THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS GLORY, and THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS BEING, and UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY HIS POWER of HIS WORD; having made PURIFICATION of our sins through HIMSELF, HE Sat Down on THE RIGHT HAND of THE MAJESTY ON HIGH, Heb 1:1-3 HEB

ELOHIYM is pronounce in Hebrew. Strong Hebrew Dictionary

The Free encyclopedia Wikipedia: The word elohim or (ʼĕlôhîym) is a grammatically plural that writers of the English language wants to claim it means god and it does not. The word did not exist until the Persian and the Hebrew Bible was already written. The trinity is also modern and originated from the Catholic Church.

Theology professor Richard Hanson observes that a result of the council's decision "was to reduce the meanings of the word 'God' from a very large selection of alternatives to one only," such that "when Western man today says 'God' he means the one, sole exclusive [Trinitarian] God and nothing else" (Studies in Christian Antiquity, 1985,pp. 243-244).

Many of the church leaders who formulated the doctrine of the Trinity were steeped in Greek and Platonic philosophy, and this influenced their religious views and teaching. The language they used in describing and defining the Trinity is, in fact, taken directly from Platonic and Greek philosophy. The word trinity itself is neither biblical nor Christian. Rather, the Platonic term trias, from the word for three, was Latinized as trinitas—the latter giving us the English word trinity. Greek Philosophy's Influence on the Trinity Doctrine (Ecumenical Councils of the Catholic Church: an Historical Outline, 1960, p. 28).

I wrote early that Dan Chapter about the three beast, Greek was the body and John saw it in Rev 13:1. Greek religion and ideology having being control of the world. It is United State the lamb like horns. You can say and believe what you want by everything in Bible Scholars and Preachers teaching of Theology which really means the study of Zeus.

Zeus: supreme god of the ancient Greeks and master of the others, 1706, from Greek, from PIE *dewos- "god" (source also of Latin deus "god," Old Persian daiva- "demon, evil god," Old Church Slavonic deivai, Sanskrit deva-), from root *dyeu- "to shine," in derivatives "sky, heaven, god." The god-sense is originally "shining," but "whether as originally sun-god or as lightener" is not now clear.

That is what Daniel and John saw and the Greek ideas took over the Romans belief who formed the Christians or Catholic belief, who formed the daughter of the whore, the Protestant belief. Not only religion but the political system as well. Greek formed and the Romans made it their own and past it down historically to our days. From the British to America. Choose Ye this day whom you will believe!

Blessings!

[Gustave]

I think the article was simply cataloging what Ellen and the early Pioneers believed at the time Ellen penned those statements. Ellen did explicitly say that Jesus was NOT God Almighty. Remember that during the time of Ellen White's life the SDA's rejected that God was a single, simple Substance Being and that three Person's (Identities with real relationships with each other) coequally owned that Divine Substance and were that "Being". 

To the SDA's God was a committee of 2 Being's with each Being having a real "person" (body of flesh, bones, etc). God was understood to be a committee or Board of Directors that acted in unity but at the end of the day still 2 "Beings" and not one. 

Review and Herald November 14, 1854
Again, where it is declared, that there are none good except the Father, it cannot be understood that none others are good in a relative sense; for Christ and angels, are good, yea perfect, in their respective sphere; but that the Father ALONE is supremely, or absolutely, good; and that he ALONE is immortal in an absolute sense; that he alone is self-existent; and, that, consequently, every other being, however high or low, is absolutely dependent upon him for life; for being. This idea is most emphatically expressed by our Savior himself; " For as the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself." John v, 26. This would be singular language for one to use who had life in his essential nature, just as much as the Father. To meet such a view, it should read thus: For as the Father hath life in himself, so hath the Son life in himself If as Trinitarians argue, the Divine nature of the Son hath life in himself (i. e., is self existent) just the same, and in as absolute a sense, as the Father

 

The Father is the only Being that is absolutely good and the Father is ONLY immortal in an absolute sense. See below.

 

Ellen White, 1888 Great Controversy 493.1
Christ the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,--one in nature, in character, and in purpose,--the only being in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. By Christ, the Father wrought in the creation of all heavenly beings. "By him were all things created, that are in Heaven, . . . whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers;" [COL. 1:16.] and to Christ, equally with the Father, all Heaven gave allegiance. {GC88 493.1}

 

 

"The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that HE might, in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon HIS son. The son was seated on the throne with the father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The Father then made known that it was ordained by Himself that Christ, His Son, SHOULD BE equal with Himself; so, that wherever was the presence of His Son, it was as His own presence. The word of the Son was to be obeyed as readily as the word of the Father. His son, He had invested with authority to command the heavenly host. Especially was His Son to work in union with Himself in the anticipated creation of the earth." Ellen White, The Truth About Angels, 32.4

 

From the above its known that Christ is a separate "Being" from The Father (God) and Christ was the ONLY BEING in the universe that could enter into all the meetings with Father God. At this point in time the Holy Spirit was not understood to be a "Being" with a body of flesh, instead it was understood to be like an odor or invisible gas element of Father God. 

Revew and Herald, Sept 6, 1892

Is God a Spirit?

Question:
If God is a spirit (John 4:24) and at the same time a person (Dan 7:9) would not the same reasoning prove that the Holy Spirit is a PERSON as referred to in John 4: 26?

Answer:
NO - For God is elsewhere described and represented as a Person; but the Holy Spirit is not. The fact that the Holy Spirit is personified John 14 and thus spoken of as acting in a personal and individual manner does NOT prove it to be a person any more than the fact that love is spoken of in 1 Cor 13 as performing certain acts and exercising certain emotions, prove that charity or love is

 

Signs of the Times, 1912, Vol 39 # 32

3829 — Is The Holy Spirit A Personality?

Question:
Can't we say that the Holy Spirit is a
personality, as long as the personal pronoun
is attributed to it? T. A. Z.

Answer:
The use of the personal pronoun is not of itself proof that the Holy Spirit is a personality, and yet the work of the Spirit is the work of a personality. By the Spirit both the Father and the Son come personally to every soul that receives the Spirit. In that wonderful sense which no human being can comprehend, the Spirit comes to each soul as a personality. And yet it does not have what we would call human personality of being in one place only at one time, that is, such personality as has our Lord Himself — in one place as He is in no other place. The Holy Spirit may be in any number of places at one and the same time, bringing the special presence of God in each of those places. In the office of the "Signs of the Times" there are fourteen different telephones all connecting with the manager. The manager may connect all these with him at one and the same time. He could issue a general order so that the foreman of each department could hear his voice at the same time. In a way he is personally present in every department. Every department hears his voice. The marvelous invention of the telephone makes him present in fifteen different places at the same time. So it is that God's Spirit makes the Father and the Son present in as many different places as God may direct, at one and the same time. We know somewhat of the working. We understand how it is to some extent of the Lord's ways and methods. We see the effects, but we know almost nothing of the nature and the power that Infinity uses to communicate with man. Let us be willing to leave it there. In some instances the Spirit is represented as the great life of God. In some it is spoken of as a power that is poured out and shed forth. To the individual it comes as the representative of the personal God. Therefore it may be spoken of as a personality, and looking at it from another view-point, as not a personality

I think the article is casting the similarities and difference between Christ and other ancient religions that ON THE SURFACE look similar due to the similarities the author points out. The Author also is frank about the incorrect theological assertions made by Ellen White and others that have contributed to the theological confusion of the Doctrine of God in the SDA Church. 

This is all good stuff in my view - and if anything shows the honesty of the Author - who by the way looks to be a guy who love his (SDA) Church. 

 

 

 

 

[Theophilus]

John 2:19, KJV: "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

 

So Jesus raised himself from the dead.

 

[Gustave]

1 hour ago, Theophilus said:

John 2:19, KJV: "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

 

So Jesus raised himself from the dead.

 

 

Yes, Scripture attests that Jesus raised Himself, God the Father raised Him and God the Holy Spirit raised Him. If the Trinity is ONE Being this makes sense. 

[stinsonmarri]

On 4/11/2021 at 12:16 PM, Gustave said:

 

Yes, Scripture attests that Jesus raised Himself, God the Father raised Him and God the Holy Spirit raised Him. If the Trinity is ONE Being this makes sense. 

Again, you go against the Bible but do not show where in the Bible do you read THE FATHER rose YAHSHUA!

 As THE FATHER Knoweth ME, even so know I THE FATHER: and I lay down MY LIFE for the sheep.  Therefore doth MY FATHER LOVE ME because I lay down MY LIFE, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from ME, but I lay it down of MYSELF. I have POWER to lay it down, and I have POWER to take it again. This Commandment have I received of MY FATHER. John 10:15, 17

YAHSHUA said unto her, I AM THE RESURRECTION, and THE LIFE: he that believeth in ME, though he were dead, yet shall he live. John 11:25  

You see, you actually don't believe in YAHSHUA and when John in Chapter 1 told you that HE also is ELOHIYM not your word god because Niecene Degreed took the plural word gods and changed it because you think you have power to manipulate and change words, but you can't. THE ALMIGHTY ONES WILL NOT LET YOU! You see the Bible tell you plainly HE WAS IN THE BEGINNING with HIS FATHER! You cannot find the word trinity in the Bible because this Chapter shows THEY ARE INDIVIDUALS and just like people on the earth the last name cover all the members in the family. Where did it start with THE ELOHIYM'S and YAHSHUA name both zâkâr and neqêbâh Adam. That is our last name and it does not just mean man that is not true but was made up!

Neqêbâh Adam's are not allowing us to be respected as equal anymore! Too many lies needed to shown what they are: LIES!

Blessings!

[Gustave]

2 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

Again, you go against the Bible but do not show where in the Bible do you read THE FATHER rose YAHSHUA!

 As THE FATHER Knoweth ME, even so know I THE FATHER: and I lay down MY LIFE for the sheep.  Therefore doth MY FATHER LOVE ME because I lay down MY LIFE, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from ME, but I lay it down of MYSELF. I have POWER to lay it down, and I have POWER to take it again. This Commandment have I received of MY FATHER. John 10:15, 17

YAHSHUA said unto her, I AM THE RESURRECTION, and THE LIFE: he that believeth in ME, though he were dead, yet shall he live. John 11:25  

You see, you actually don't believe in YAHSHUA and when John in Chapter 1 told you that HE also is ELOHIYM not your word god because Niecene Degreed took the plural word gods and changed it because you think you have power to manipulate and change words, but you can't. THE ALMIGHTY ONES WILL NOT LET YOU! You see the Bible tell you plainly HE WAS IN THE BEGINNING with HIS FATHER! You cannot find the word trinity in the Bible because this Chapter shows THEY ARE INDIVIDUALS and just like people on the earth the last name cover all the members in the family. Where did it start with THE ELOHIYM'S and YAHSHUA name both zâkâr and neqêbâh Adam. That is our last name and it does not just mean man that is not true but was made up!

Neqêbâh Adam's are not allowing us to be respected as equal anymore! Too many lies needed to shown what they are: LIES!

Blessings!

Acts 2,31: He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Scripture is clear that God the Father raised Jesus, Jesus raised Himself & the Holy Spirit raised Jesus. This is what one would expect to see if they accept the Trinity Doctrine. I.E. NOT 3 Beings but ONE BEING, God. 

[stinsonmarri]

On 5/8/2021 at 8:19 PM, Gustave said:

Acts 2,31: He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Scripture is clear that God the Father raised Jesus, Jesus raised Himself & the Holy Spirit raised Jesus. This is what one would expect to see if they accept the Trinity Doctrine. I.E. NOT 3 Beings but ONE BEING, God. 

When you want to believe things the people who want to believe in a one god concept so put in words and also twix things around. This is to make you believe that YAHSHUA who was also called MICHAEL in Heaven stood between THE TRUE FATHER and HE kicked Satan out of Heaven along with his angels. You do not want to believe that these spiritual beings had body features just like we do. Only difference they are spiritual and we are not. You nor I know what spiritual beings are made from. You have an you head a false, ridiculous concept and you do not understand because you are not THE CREATORS. I do not worry I have faith and I accept the writings of the Hebrews language that actually came and was originally written by the Phoenicians.

Blessings!

 

[Gustave]

8 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

When you want to believe things the people who want to believe in a one god concept so put in words and also twix things around. This is to make you believe that YAHSHUA who was also called MICHAEL in Heaven stood between THE TRUE FATHER and HE kicked Satan out of Heaven along with his angels. You do not want to believe that these spiritual beings had body features just like we do. Only difference they are spiritual and we are not. You nor I know what spiritual beings are made from. You have an you head a false, ridiculous concept and you do not understand because you are not THE CREATORS. I do not worry I have faith and I accept the writings of the Hebrews language that actually came and was originally written by the Phoenicians.

Blessings!

 

I mean no disrespect when I say you're a little hard to follow here. You're alleging that Acts 2,31 -32 was "tampered with" to say something it originally didn't? Please explain.

 

[Gustave]

Just now, Gustave said:

I mean no disrespect when I say you're a little hard to follow here. You're alleging that Acts 2,31 -32 was "tampered with" to say something it originally didn't? Please explain. You asked me WHERE in the Bible the Father rose Jesus - I did just that. 

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Gustave made the following statement in the quote below.  That statement probably seems to be complicated.  Actually his statement is in agreement with what Ellen White said:

 

*  In AA 59.2  Ellen White quotes Peter in saying:  "God had raised [Jesus of Nazareth] from the dead."

  *  In DA  785..2  Ellen White said: "Now was proved the truth of His words, 'I lay down My life, that I might take it again. . . .I have power to lay it down and I have power to take it again."

 

Scripture is clear that God the Father raised Jesus, Jesus raised Himself & the Holy Spirit raised Jesus. This is what one would expect to see if they accept the Trinity Doctrine. I.E. NOT 3 Beings but ONE BEING, God. 

[Gregory Matthews]

With thanks to Britannica (see below)  it is clear that Biblical Hebrew has a relationship to Phoenician.  However, to say that there is a relationship is not to say that Biblical Hebrew came from the Phoenician.

In addition, there are major differences between Biblical Hebrew and Modern Hebrew and someone who speaks Modern Hebrew cannot be said to be an expert in Biblical Hebrew.  In the same sense, one who speaks Modern Greek cannot be said to be an expert in Biblical Greek.

Hebrew language, Semitic language of the Northern Central (also called Northwestern) group; it is closely related to Phoenician and Moabite, with which it is often placed by scholars in a Canaanite subgroup. Spoken in ancient times in Palestine, Hebrew was supplanted by the western dialect of Aramaic beginning about the 3rd century BC; the language continued to be used as a liturgical and literary language, however. It was revived as a spoken language in the 19th and 20th centuries and is the official language of Israel.

[stinsonmarri]

On 5/12/2021 at 12:34 AM, Gustave said:

I mean no disrespect when I say you're a little hard to follow here. You're alleging that Acts 2,31 -32 was "tampered with" to say something it originally didn't? Please explain.

 

I do thank you for your respect Gustave. I also do mean no disrespect to you as well. I am not alleging, I am stating facts that you do not want to understand. You are trying to say that disciples words in Acts is more powerful than YAHSHUA! No they would not go against HIS! That my friend why so many people says the Bible contradicts itself. You heard that yourself. No, it is because just like Ms. White saw and also the Bible warned that words would be changed. I will give you a good example.

Now, look at the Republican Congress and one actually said that the mob that came on Jan 6, 2021 were tourist. That is a bolden face untruth. We all saw what happen with our eyes. One Capitol police wrote to all of them today saying he almost got killed and he has anxiety since the incident. He knows one of his police was killed.

People trying to change the truth. This is worse today than ever before and history of sin repeats itself now. Why like YAHSHUA said it is the beginning of sorrow. Bible scholars took words changing the grammar to fit their view. We know not true be YAHSHUA, HIMSELF SAID HE LAY HIS LIFE down and HE TAKES IT UP AGAIN. You tell from the Greek words it self what is correct and not and what is added!

Blessings!

[Gustave]

4 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I do thank you for your respect Gustave. I also do mean no disrespect to you as well. I am not alleging, I am stating facts that you do not want to understand. You are trying to say that disciples words in Acts is more powerful than YAHSHUA! No they would not go against HIS! That my friend why so many people says the Bible contradicts itself. You heard that yourself. No, it is because just like Ms. White saw and also the Bible warned that words would be changed. I will give you a good example.

Now, look at the Republican Congress and one actually said that the mob that came on Jan 6, 2021 were tourist. That is a bolden face untruth. We all saw what happen with our eyes. One Capitol police wrote to all of them today saying he almost got killed and he has anxiety since the incident. He knows one of his police was killed.

People trying to change the truth. This is worse today than ever before and history of sin repeats itself now. Why like YAHSHUA said it is the beginning of sorrow. Bible scholars took words changing the grammar to fit their view. We know not true be YAHSHUA, HIMSELF SAID HE LAY HIS LIFE down and HE TAKES IT UP AGAIN. You tell from the Greek words it self what is correct and not and what is added!

Blessings!

 

You are not stating facts, you are confused. When the Canon was being established there were MANY "Books" that many people thought should be part of what ultimately became the Bible. It was the Catholic Church that decided what Books would be in the Bible and the primary method used for testing the Books was IF THEY were in line with the Sacred Tradition of the Church. 

I can appreciate that you would look for a way to discredit Trinitarian Texts in Sacred Scripture and I suppose claiming a conspiracy where "words were changed" is as good as any other excuse. Its just not a valid reason. 

[stinsonmarri]

On 5/13/2021 at 8:24 PM, Gustave said:

 

You are not stating facts, you are confused. When the Canon was being established there were MANY "Books" that many people thought should be part of what ultimately became the Bible. It was the Catholic Church that decided what Books would be in the Bible and the primary method used for testing the Books was IF THEY were in line with the Sacred Tradition of the Church. 

I can appreciate that you would look for a way to discredit Trinitarian Texts in Sacred Scripture and I suppose claiming a conspiracy where "words were changed" is as good as any other excuse. Its just not a valid reason. 

Gustave: Again, that is my point who are you or the Catholic church thinking you have power over the written word of ELOHIYM? You have the nerve to call yourselves infallible. None of the disciples have spoken that they were infallible! 

The Word of ELOHIYM have been preserved over time and throughout the ages. Instead your church want to implement books (scrolls) that were not sacred with the Hebrew Books of the Bible. It is to note that these books (scrolls) were found to be called the Paleo Hebrew. These are the oldest finds of the original writings of Moses. Also the complete copy of Isaiah. 

Hebrew University Professor Eliezer Lipa Sukenik caught wind of the Scrolls and stated: “My hands shook as I started to unwrap one of them. I read a few sentences. It was written in beautiful biblical Hebrew. The language was like that of the Psalms, but the text was unknown to me. I looked and looked, and I suddenly had the feeling that I was privileged by destiny to gaze upon a Hebrew Scroll which had not been read for more than 2,000 years. ” The Leon Levy Dead Sea Scrolls Digital Library

Yet, you want to cling to the Septuagint, in which  Eleazar, the high priest at Jerusalem went totally against YAHWEH!

When thou art come unto the land which YAHWEH thy ELOHIYM giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me; Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom YAHWEH thy ELOHIYM shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.  But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as YAHWEH hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way. Deut 17:14-16    

How clear is the Bible especially when men think they change or hid the truth of the Bible! As I stated before the Hebrew were warned not to return to Egypt and do any type of business with them. YAHSHUA also warned them as well:

Ye hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mat 15:7 -9 

Paul also stated the same thing, he  just made it clearer that even a child could understand:

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from HIM that called you into THE GRACE of THE MESSIAH unto another proclamation: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you and would pervert the good news of THE MESSIAH. But though we, or an angel from Heaven, preach any other good news unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other good news unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or ELOHIYM? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of THE MESSIAH. Gal 1:6-10 

Now, how clear is that, those writers you say of from YAHWEH, are not with the ones YAHWEH chose to write HIS WORD! These are tradition of men that should be accursed. No disrespect.

Happy Sabbath and may you be bless.

[Gustave]

Gustave: Again, that is my point who are you or the Catholic church thinking you have power over the written word of ELOHIYM? You have the nerve to call yourselves infallible. None of the disciples have spoken that they were infallible! 

You're missing the point Stinson, it was the Catholic Church who told you what the written word of ELOHIYM is and if you accept the New Testament as "The Word of God" by default you would be forced to agree that the Council of Rome (in A.D. 382)  was infallible unless of course you plan on suggesting Ellen White had access to a time machine. 

The Word of ELOHIYM have been preserved over time and throughout the ages. Instead your church want to implement books (scrolls) that were not sacred with the Hebrew Books of the Bible. It is to note that these books (scrolls) were found to be called the Paleo Hebrew. These are the oldest finds of the original writings of Moses. Also the complete copy of Isaiah. 

The Septuagint was what Jesus and the Apostles used & quoted from. In any event "reliable Paleo Hebrew" is constrained to the 1st 5 Books of the Old Testament. The Jews had a religious Tradition, one that Jesus observed and given that Jesus used the Septuagint you can take it to the bank if there had been something wrong with with it we would have heard about that, long ago, by Jesus. 

Yet, you want to cling to the Septuagint, in which  Eleazar, the high priest at Jerusalem went totally against YAHWEH!

Jesus & His Apostles 'clung' to the Septuagint. 

What "Doctrines" do you claim were lost because the early Church followed the practice of Jesus and the Apostles by using the Septuagint? Go ahead and post what they are, I'd like to know about them. 

 

[stinsonmarri]

On 5/12/2021 at 9:30 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

With thanks to Britannica (see below)  it is clear that Biblical Hebrew has a relationship to Phoenician.  However, to say that there is a relationship is not to say that Biblical Hebrew came from the Phoenician.

In addition, there are major differences between Biblical Hebrew and Modern Hebrew and someone who speaks Modern Hebrew cannot be said to be an expert in Biblical Hebrew.  In the same sense, one who speaks Modern Greek cannot be said to be an expert in Biblical Greek.

 

 

Pastor: Again you not correct and the truth have always been there. See, it sad to say that for years systematic racism have been taught in the universities also covered up. There are men who refuse to cover up the truth. Reasonly it is coming out just like other sinful is being reveal now. Why, because this is the beginning of sorrow. Look at the chaos around the world including COVID. The earth is dying because have not been could stewards.

YAHWEH came to Ham's children first, who rejected knowing the knowledge of truth! Then HE came to Shem's children and even blessed them with having HIS SON born through them. Finally, Japheth was giving the same opportunity and instead acting like the oldest, they became jealous begin to hate their youngest Uncle children. Jealous that they were first and they were last. So, all three brothers' children had a relationship with THE FATHER and fail! However, YAHWEH not to tried to change the truth and that's been the problem. Its funny for long time both the Blacks and the Hebrews were hated together by the Europeans even here in America!

You stated that I do not know the Greeks and you have not tried to understand true history.

Phoenician is a Canaanite language closely related to Hebrew. Very little is known about the Canaanite language, except what can be gathered from the El-Amarna letters written by Canaanite kings to Pharaohs Amenhopis III (1402 - 1364 BCE) and Akhenaton (1364 - 1347 BCE). It appears that the Phoenician language, culture, and writing were strongly influenced by Egypt (which controlled Phoenicia for a long time), as king Rib-Adda of Byblos admits in one of his letters to the pharaoh.

The Phoenician writing system is, by virtue of being an alphabet, simple and easy to learn, and also very adaptable to other languages, quite unlike cuneiform or hieroglyphics. In the 9th century BCE the Aramaeans had adopted the Phoenician alphabet, added symbols for the initial "aleph" and for long vowels. This Aramaic alphabet eventually turned into modern Arabic. By the 8th century BCE, texts written in the Phoenician alphabet whose authors were probably not Phoenician appeared in Cilicia in southern Asia Minor and in northern Syria. Eventually the Greeks, who were in close trading contact with the Levant, adopted the Phoenician alphabet, added vowel sounds, and thus created the Greek alphabet (upon which our modern Latin alphabet is based). "The Phoenician Alphabet & Language." World History Encyclopedia, 18 Jan 2012. Web. 16 May 2021. 

Proto-Canaanite writing was used in the period between 17 B.C.E until 12 B.C.E… Paleo-Hebrew was adopted the alphabetic script together with other cultural values from the Canaanites in the 12th or 11th century B.C.E. They followed the current Phoenician script until the ninth century, when they began to develop their own national script. The earliest known inscription in the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet was discovered on the stone on a wall at Tel Zayit, in the Beth Guvrin Valley in the lowlands of ancient Judea. The 22 letters were carved on one side of the 38 lb stone (17 kg) – which resembles a bowl on the other. https://onjewishmatters.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/the-evolution-of-the-hebrew-letters/

In 1999, Yale University archaeologists identified an alphabetic script in Wadi El-Hol, a narrow valley between Waset (Thebes) and Abdu (Abydos) in Southern Kemet. Dating to about 1900 BC, it bears resemblance to Medu Neter, but also the much older "Proto-Saharan" writing system. A similar inscription that dates to 1500 BC was found in Serabit el-Khadim on Africa's Sinai peninsula, and is likely the basis for the so-called "Proto Canaanite" and "Phoenician" scripts (all of which are descendants of "Proto-Saharan"). Most importantly, the find provides proof that Phoenician writing was born in Africa. Ancient African History.Com; Beginning of alphabet uncovered; Writing: Inscriptions found in Egypt are believed to be the oldest examples of symbols that became the basis of modern writing. The  Baltimore Sun  Ancient

During the 2012 excavations  at the southern wall of the Temple Mount, archaeologist Eilat Mazar discovered an inscription with the earliest alphabet letters ever found in Jerusalem. The inscription—carved on a storage jar—is written in the Proto-Canaanite script and dates to the 11th or 10th century B.C.E. Precursor to Paleo-Hebrew Script Discovered in Jerusalem

More and more is coming out and the Britannica who many including myself had upheld is part of the systematic racism. They once classified their hatred of the Jews, in early American history as they did with us. The hated is show even more today! 

I lived with it back in college. My teacher wanted to say that the Ethiopians of Afrika were Caucasian and I kindly did not agree with her. She was upset and yes, I did not pass her class. In another class calling us "negroes" and stating that our brain were much smaller than White people. They actually said it the size of a Chimpanzee and we had limited knowledge compared to White people. I did not fail the class but I disagree with the teacher and explained it. The SDA Commentary was more historically correct about Ham and Shem. They even stated they were more intimately related then Japheth. This Commentary was writing between the 40's and the 50's. New findings have been discover since then!

 Sadly, pastor you have said the same. Not as bold and profoundly racist as I had to struggle in the early 70's, going to college in the south. When you state I do not know about the Greeks. I studied about their different beliefs, society, and most of all their influence on people of other nations. They Hellenized, the Egyptians, the Persians, the Hebrews, the Romans, Europe and the world today especially America. But they got their knowledge of medicine from Egypt and the alphabet from the Phoenicians.

Egyptian medicine is the base of Greek medicine. Egyptian people and their medical knowledge are often mentioned in the Iliad and Odyssey of Homer (VIII sec. BCE). Many Greek doctors, such as Melampus, Asclepius as well as Hippocrates visited Egypt to study and understand medicine. This work intends to focus particularly on Homer, Herodotus and Plutarch's letters, where the importance of Egypt in religion, science and medicine is clear. Herodotus (484-420 BCE) in the second book of "The Histories" describes Egypt and the medical knowledge of its doctors. Plutarch (I-II sec CE) in "The virtues of Sparta" and "Life of Lycurgus", tells about an energy beverage, named nepenthe, made with drugs from Egypt. Homer and Herodotus to Egyptian medicine: National Library of Medicine

Finally, pastor is what gets me that they kings of Jerusalem were writing to Egypt before Abraham arrived. Secondly, Abraham arrived and stay around the Amorites, but the Hebrew language just so happen, spreaded around then. Moses, who knew Hieroglyphics and Hieratic Scripts, would also living in the palace knew the Phoenician Script. That's the Script he used and it's time that the truth be accepted.

Blessings