I never knew you..

July 10, 2006

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Matthew 7:21-23

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

I have a question about this passage.

The people who are saying "Lord, Lord" and will NOT be allowed into heaven will be folks who have proclaimed themselves as Christian. They will have had access to the same Bible, the same truth, the same God, the same Savior; they will have done miracles in His name and prayed in His name; yet they will not be allowed into heaven. I would think they thought themselves secure of being in heaven - yet in reality, they were not. They were confident, but fatally mistaken.

So...how does a person know if he/she is truly on the right path, or you just *think* you're on the right path? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

July 10, 2006

I have a great deal of material on that topic, which I'm willing to share with you privately.

I am no longer sharing publicly on this forum.

July 10, 2006

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I am no longer sharing publicly on this forum.

Ed, I am sure you have your reasons for this, but from a personal viewpoint I consider this to be a huge loss.

And from the context of edifying others I believe your contributions will be greatly missed.

Graeme

July 10, 2006

Ed Dickerson is at risk of being burned again I suppose if he shares here in this format.

I have observed some nasty people lurking waiting to jump on any of us if we dont agree with them line on line.

I dont know anyone who agrees perfectly with each other on everything. But some people do respect and love each other and listen to each other without pouncing.

I challenge u all to do that if Ed shares what is much needed.

July 11, 2006

I would encourage use of the "ignore this user" feature.

I consider this a huge loss too. Ed you have a lot to contribute.

July 11, 2006

I agree...

July 11, 2006

Ed, please come back. Your pm *box* is full, and I cant contact you any other way. Please post here. I value your input a lot. Please come back. Please..

July 11, 2006

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rudywoofs said:They were confident, but fatally mistaken.

So...how does a person know if he/she is truly on the right path, or you just *think* you're on the right path? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

They are Laodiceans who have refused Christ's righteousness. They are dressed in their own robes of self-righteousness....That's all! They are looking for a reward for their works...i.e., merit. Here's the KJV:

"And in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

The word "iniquity" means to be bent towards self. Works done selfishly (hope of a reward or fear of God/hell) come from "self" and are hence self-righteous. Let's continue:

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock [a metaphor for Jesus]: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock [Jesus Christ AND His righteousness]. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand [human works] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Rob

July 12, 2006

Who is refusing the righteousness of Christ? The one who accepts the offer of righteousness and proceeds to live out that righteousness, or the one who says he accepts it but goes on and continue a life of disobedience?

Gerry

July 15, 2006

Huh...legalist!

July 16, 2006

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They are Laodiceans who have refused Christ's righteousness. They are dressed in their own robes of self-righteousness....That's all! They are looking for a reward for their works...i.e., merit. Here's the KJV:

"And in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

The word "iniquity" means to be bent towards self. Works done selfishly (hope of a reward or fear of God/hell) come from "self" and are hence self-righteous.

This question has weighed on my mind on more than one occassion, thank you for posting. Now I can ask the HS to reveal selfish motives and help me remove them.

Two thoughts come to mind here and both have to do with motives--if we accept Christ's righteousness, then we accept His commission to go out and make disciples of all nations...and His commandments to love God first and love others as ourselves--a natural outpouring of Christ in our lives.

The other is a scriptural reference from Matthew 21:28-32. In this illustration, it was the son who initially said "no" that was actually the obedient son.

July 16, 2006

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Robert said:

Huh...legalist!

[:"blue"]Read the parable, Robert. Who IS the foolish man in the parable? Is it not the man who hears the word but refuses to do who builds on sand? [/]

Gerry

July 17, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said: Is it not the man who hears the word but refuses to do who builds on sand?

Gerry

Let's look at the context:

Jesus said, "Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name...?" Who is the "many"? Go back to verse 15:

“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits...."

What does this mean?

Turn to Phil 3:2 Look out for the dogs [wolves], look out for the evil-workers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3 For we are the true circumcision, who worship God in spirit, and glory in Christ Jesus, and put no confidence in the flesh [i.e., our performance]. 4 Though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If any other man thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born of Hebrews; as to the law a Pharisee, 6 as to zeal a persecutor of the church, [:"red"]as to righteousness under the law blameless.[/]

Paul is associating "dogs" (wolves) with those who place confidence in their performance as he once did as a Pharisee. So a wolf in sheep's clothing is one who claims to be clothed in the righteousness of Christ, yet in reality is clothed in his own filthy garment.

Rob

July 17, 2006

What were the words Jesus spoke that those who were claiming Him to be their Lord did not do?

Look at the whole sermon that started in chapter 5. Meekness of spirit, mourning over sin, hungering and thirsting for righteousness, mercy, purity of heart, being peacemakers, being light of the world by their good works, having righteousness beyond just keeping the letter of the law, not being angry with a brother without cause, not lusting at a woman, not divorcing one's spouse except for infidelity, not taking God's name in vain, unforgiving spirit, hypocrisy, etc. etc., and you are telling me it's only about prophesying falsely?

And what is a hypocrite? The original word meant a stage player, an actor, professing one thing but in real life living another. That's YOUR gospel, claiming Jesus as Lord, claiming His righteousness while still under the control of another power.

I have said it countless times, the works of the saved are the product/result of a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, not the basis for it, because no amount of work that I could ever do will ever contribute ONE IOTA to my salvation, but you keep twisting it to make it look like the believer, me, is somehow working for merit.

Wake up, Robert!!! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were (past tense) some of you." 1 Cor 6:9-11 NKJ.

Gerry

July 17, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said:

no amount of work that I could ever do will ever contribute ONE IOTA to my salvation....

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

See how Gerry contradicts himself, folks? Gerry says that nothing he can do will ever contribute ONE ITOA to his salvation, yet in the same breath he states that the unrighteous will not inherit the heaven.

Let me see....Hmmm? If I can't be fully righteous then I can't go to heaven. Nice Gerry, but it's unadulterated legalism!

July 17, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said:... not being angry with a brother without cause

"When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats."

Did Jesus have a right to be angry in the human sense? Yes.

"if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Would you have the right to be angry with someone who took what belongs to you? Yes, in the human sense.

Then why the contradiction? Ah, the King James Version has some errors. All the other versions read, "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment"

So if someone rapes and murders your whole family and you responded in anger, you have broken the law.

Keep on trying,

Rob

July 17, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said: And such were (past tense) some of you." 1 Cor 6:9-11 NKJ.

Gerry

Context:

7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.

Note that these believers were (present tense) cheating each other.

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Is this true? Yes....Then were these believers lost? No. Why? Because believers are considered "saints" in Christ Jesus. It is the unbelievers who are considered wicked.

"...Slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God"

But they were cheating!

"And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."

Where were they sanctified? Heb 10:10 By Christ's doing an dying "we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

Yes in reality these believers weren't measuring up. They were cheating each other, but because of their position "in Christ" Paul could say that they stood perfect.

Now hopefully they grew, but he doesn't say.

Rob

July 18, 2006

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rudywoofs said:

' I never knew you ; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness !'

I have a question about this passage.

They were confident, but fatally mistaken.

So...how does a person know if he/she is truly on the right path, or you just *think* you're on the right path? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

This particular Scripture plainly reveals that our works are not the basis for salvation. It also reveals that the elimination of law excludes rightful conduct as a characteristic of those having received salvation, an evidence of lack of knowledge of the Savior.

[:"red"] "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." [/] 1 John 5:13 KJV

[:"red"] "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." [/] John 17:3 KJV

As contrasting____ [:"red"] "I never knew you" [/]

Matt 7:23 KJV

Keep looking up!!

July 18, 2006

[:"blue"] "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornications, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you befhorehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things WILL NOT inherit the kingdom of God." Gal 5:19-21 NKJ.

"Do you not know that the unrighteous WILL NOT inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. NEITHER fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor theieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Cor 6:9,10 NKJ.

"He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My Son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Rev 21:7,8 NKJ

God says unrepentant, unreformed lawbreakers will die. You, Robert, say, you will not surely die. Does that sound familiar? Who shall I believe? [/]

Gerry

July 19, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said: .... that those who practice such things WILL NOT inherit the kingdom of God." Gal 5:19-21 NKJ.

"If we confess our sins...."

A practiced sin is one that,

1] One knows to be sin

2] but refuses to acknowledge sin.

Keep it simple!

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"Do you not know that the unrighteous WILL NOT inherit the kingdom of God?

Gerry, did you know that I am 100% righteous? Of course in and of myself I am not righteous, rather it is because of my faith relationship to Christ that I stand perfect in every detail, "in Him." Otherwise I would be considered "unrighteous" and my sins would stand against me to condemn me.

Here let me help you Doc:

-BC- PK

-TI- Prophets and Kings

-CN- 47

-CT- Joshua and the Angel

-PR- 02

-PG- 588

The tempter stands by to accuse them, as he stood by to resist Joshua. He points to [:"red"]their filthy garments[/], their defective characters. He presents their weakness and folly, their sins of ingratitude, their unlikeness to Christ, which has dishonored their Redeemer. He endeavors to affright [scare] them with the thought that their case is hopeless, that the stain of their defilement will never be washed away. He hopes so to destroy their faith that they will yield to his temptations, and turn from their allegiance to God.

[:"red"]Satan has an accurate knowledge of the sins that he has tempted God's people to commit[/], and he urges his accusations against them, declaring, that by their sins they have forfeited divine protection, and claiming that he has the right to destroy them. He pronounces them just as deserving as himself of exclusion from the favor of God. "Are these," he says, "the people who are to take my place in heaven, and the place of the angels who united with me? They profess to obey the law of God; but have they kept its precepts? Have they not been [:"red"]lovers of self [/] more than lovers of God? Have they not placed their own interests above His service? Have they not loved the things of the world? Look at the sins that have marked their lives. Behold their selfishness, their malice, their hatred of one another. Will God banish me and my angels from His presence, and yet reward those who have been guilty of the same sins? Thou canst not do this, O Lord, in justice. Justice demands that sentence be pronounced against them."

But while the followers of Christ have sinned, they have not given themselves up to be controlled by the satanic agencies [i.e., they haven’t given themselves totally over to the flesh, to live according to it]. They have repented of their sins and have sought the Lord in humility and contrition, [:"red"]and the divine Advocate pleads in their behalf[/]. He who has been most abused by their ingratitude, who knows their sin and also their penitence, declares: "The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan. I gave My life for these souls. They are graven upon the palms of My hands [that’s the “in Christ” motif]. They may have imperfections of character; they may have failed in their endeavors; but they have repented, and I have forgiven and accepted them."

July 19, 2006

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Gerry, did you know that I am 100% righteous? Of course in and of myself I am not righteous, rather it is because of my faith relationship to Christ that I stand perfect in every detail, "in Him." Otherwise I would be considered "unrighteous" and my sins would stand against me to condemn me.

[:"blue"]Righteous while committing all the abominations enumerated by Paul? You are deluded, my friend!

[:"red"]"Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: 'The Lord knows those who are His,' and, 'Let everyone who names the name of Christ DEPART FROM INIQUITY [adikia - unrighteousness, a deed violating law & justice]." 2 Tim 2:19 NKJ. [/]

God: "The wages of sin is death."

Robert: "You will not surely die."

Sound familiar? [/]

Gerry

July 19, 2006

I can't reach you, only God can help a blind Laodicean.

July 19, 2006

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LifeHiscost said:

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rudywoofs said:

' I never knew you ; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness !'

I have a question about this passage.

They were confident, but fatally mistaken.

So...how does a person know if he/she is truly on the right path, or you just *think* you're on the right path? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

This particular Scripture plainly reveals that our works are not the basis for salvation. It also reveals that the elimination of law exclud(ing) rightful conduct as a characteristic of those having received salvation, an evidence of lack of knowledge of the Savior.

[:"red"] "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." [/] 1 John 5:13 KJV

[:"red"] "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." [/] John 17:3 KJV

As contrasting____ [:"red"] "I never knew you" [/]

Matt 7:23 KJV

Keep looking up!!

The parenthesis in the original reply by LHC is a correction

to give what was originally intended. The first reply would make righteousness not a characteristic of the follower of Christ, the original lie of the enemy of souls.

[:"red"] "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." [/] Gen 2:17 KJV

[:"red"] "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: " [/] Gen 3:4 KJV

My reply as originally given was a grievous error, and I profusely apologise. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> While the righteousness that is fit for the kingdom of heaven is from Christ, it is not our own except as received submissively from the Lord of glory.

[:"red"] "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags" [/] Isaiah 64:6 KJV

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