Saved From The Mark of The Beast?

[Dr. Shane]

My clock radio wakes me up each morning to the local Christian station. This past week it has been to a series of sermons on Revelation. This morning a person asked the preacher, "If I am saved, what will happen if I recieve the mark of the beast because I am tired, hungry and needing shelter?"

The pastor answered by saying that since our salvation is not dependant upon our testimony (works) but rather on the work of Christ, that even if we recieve the mark of the beast, we can be confident in our salvation in Christ.

Of course, I thought, that is the logical conclusion of easy grace. Never mind the Bible texts that teach the contrary. If we play no part in our salvation, there is nothing we can do to lose it.

"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt. 24:12, 13

"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." Rev. 14:9-11

[Pockey]

I agree with you Shane. I'm a little confused on the caller's question. "If I am saved, what will happen if I receive the mark because I am tired, hungry and needing shelter?" Is he saying that he worshipped the beast because he was tired and hungry? And then the Pastor's answer doesn't make sense either. It's just a dangerous thing to say because now the caller may be inclinced to think that he can do whatever he wants to do and still be saved.

[David Koot]

It is sad but true, that particular brand of teaching abounds. How many times have I heard it! What the pastor said is the logical conclusion of that teaching, although I have rarely heard it carried to that extreme--that is, even if I receive the mark of the beast, I will still be saved. That is directly contrary to the Word of God. Those who present that false sense of security face terrible accountability for leading people astray.

Dave

[Dr. Shane]

I think what the caller was getting at is that since she will not be able to buy ot sell without the mark of the beast, she may find herself without food and shelter. Thus she reasons, she may choose to get the mark of the beast so she can eat and rest. The preacher was sympathetic to her in his answer. And is answer is consistant with the teaching of easy grace - but is contraary to what the Bible teaches.

[Gerr]

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The pastor answered by saying that since our salvation is not dependant upon our testimony (works) but rather on the work of Christ, that even if we recieve the mark of the beast, we can be confident in our salvation in Christ.

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Must be either a Baptist or somebody I know here, with this same idea, that any bad/sinful thing you do could not make you lose your salvation, because of what Jesus did 2000 yrs ago.

[:"blue"]"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony." Rev 12:11 NKJ [/]

Gerry

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

How does *testimony* = *works*? []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/]

[Robert]

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Gerry Cabalo said: "And they overcame him [satan] by the blood of the Lamb [His righteousness] and by the word of their testimony." Rev 12:11 NKJ [/]

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Gerry is trying to make this into a works program....Pay no attention to him.

The last generation "over come" the devil through the righteousness of Christ received by faith.

1 John 5:4 This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

[olger]

Good point Shane. There is a good bit of this kind of thinking in modern Christendom. It sounds good to people who want to believe that they will be saved no matter what they do. Calvin & Theodore Beza helped establish this errant confidence in the will of God. In essence they slew the will of man.

Although the impact of such thinking has invaded our church in certain quarters, the Advent Message remains a bulwark against such short-circuited religion, robbed of responsibility. Those who adapt this version of cheap grace often see themselves as enlightened, thus they feel free to denigrate others who yield their lives to the obedience of love.

God's blessings to all,

gcw

[Dr. Shane]

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How does *testimony* = *works*?

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The greek word used in Rev. 12:11 is "marturia" which means "evidence given". The pastor in his sermon, which I mentioned in the beginning of this thread, used the word "testimony" when he stated we are not saved by our testimony.

Our works are the evidence of our faith.

[:"blue"]

James 2

14. What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15. If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16. And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17. Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22. Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23. And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. [/]

[Gerr]

Please ask the one who equated testimony = works because I did not. But according to John, victory is not only achieved by the blood of the Lamb, but that our testimony must be important also. Furthermore, Paul also says, "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus [testimony] and believe in your heart thatr God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Rom 10:9,10 NKJ.

Gerry

[olger]

Thank you for applying a piece of tape over that broken record.

gcw

[Dr. Shane]

The life a person lives is testimony of their relationship with Christ.

[Gerr]

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Shane said:

The life a person lives is testimony of their relationship with Christ.

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[:"blue"]Exactly!!! The blood of the Lamb by believing with the heart buys the ticket; the testimony/confession with the life provides proof that the ticket is genuine.

When I moved the NC, it took me awhile to get my license to practice medicine although I had my med school, internship, residency, and board certification papers. Proof that they were genuine came from those places attesting to the fact that I did the work. [/]

Gerry