why bother...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

...to read the Bible?

It seems that unless a person knows Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic (or whichever language a particular part of the Bible was written in), you can never know if what you read is REALLY the meaning of what's written, or if there is some other linguistic or cultural or archaic nuance that didn't get translated that would make the meaning completely different. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I find that VERY discouraging. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I've seen written by different people that the Holy Spirit will help a person understand the Bible. Does that mean, then, when I read something and don't *get it* that the Holy Spirit has decided I'm not yet worthy to understand? Just not up to snuff yet? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

[Gail]

Why bother reading the Bible? Because it is God's word communicated to us. It has power to change lives, it is our spiritual food, it provides us with the knowledge that leads us to salvation and gives us our armour to thwart the devil in the battle of good versus evil

If you read it as a daily habit, you WILL be changed, no doubt about it, whether the changes are perceptible to you at first or not

Keep trying! Keep praying for wisdom from the Holy Spirit and it will come <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Gerr]

Pam, first of all, I believe that no matter what translation or language you use (if you understand the language), I believe that if the person really wants to know the truth, that with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit, one will understand the basic message of salvation that God is trying to convey. But knowing the original languages does take one to another dimension. I personally do not know Hebrew or Greek, but one way to help bridge that deficiency gap is to use & compare as many translations as practicable. And translations made by a group of scholars is better for accuracy than a one man work. Furthermore, with computers and so many Bible software, one can now just push a key and one can instantaneously have access Strong's numbers and see the original Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic, and get a whole range of meanings, and you can decide for yourself the best meaning from the context. When Daniel predicted that "knowledge shall increase," I believe that also includes our understanding of the Scriptures.

God bless you in your pursuit of truth. Claim the promise that, [:"red"]"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me, with all your heart. I will be found by you, says the LORD..." Jer 29:11-14 NKJ. [/] And, [:"red"] "when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth..." Jn 16:13 NKJ. [/]

Gerry

[Dr. Shane]

The Bible is life transforming and spiritually nourishing regardless the translation or language it is read in. However when we search for answers to specific doctrines like the Trinity, state of the dead, sabbath, diet, etc... we often need to use a concordance such as Strong's.

Yet our daily Bible readings do not need to be in-depth doctrinal studies. Our daily Bible readings can have more of a devotional focus which draws us into a closer relationship with Christ. For that purpose, even Biblical paraphrases work well.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The problem I seem to have is that I will read something, think I know what it means, and be satisfied that I know the meaning. THEN I find out that there was something altogether DIFFERENT in the meaning of the words. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Unless I parse and analyze every word I read, it is impossible to know when I'm reading something correctly and when I'm not.

The Bible is supposed to be God's message to people. Why would God purposely make things difficult to understand?? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

OTOH, maybe it's just me. I know a lot of times in church the preacher would quote a text and everyone would say "amen" and nod - 'cept me. ::sigh:: Believe me, there's nothing that makes a person feel more like an outsider than to have people around you talking about stuff that you have no clue about - even when you read the script.

[Nan]

Pam, I think Shane has a very good point here. Paul in various places talks about new Christians being as new born babes needing the 'milk of the Word'. Taking the Gospels as descriptions of the life of Jesus here on earth, whatever translation used, reading the story shows His love, His compassion, His sacrifice. There is plenty of scope in other passages for difficulties in comprehension - if anyone here claims to understand every nuance of Scripture, I would not believe that person - but it is the basic foundation that needs to be established.

I have been reading Ecclesiastes lately and in 2 passages there, the writer speaks of the burden God has laid on men (1:13 and 3:10, NIV). What is this burden? I do not have the complete answer, but at least part seems to be a seeking after the meaning of life. Maybe these passages describe what leads to your questions, too. (And as I have said before, I appreciate that you are making us all question why we believe as we do.)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ::nods::

Do you suppose that it is okay NOT to read the Bible per se, but to read devotional books that take a Bible text(s) and enlarge on the idea? I've been wondering about that - it seems to me that I wouldn't get so frustrated so often. []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/]

[]http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/whatsign.gif[/]

[Dr. Shane]

I had that conflict when I was reading through the Conflict of the Ages series by EG White. I spent so much time reading from those books, I hardly had time for the Bible.

I think we should read at least a chapter of the Bible each day to maintain our spritual health. In addition to that, it is a great idea to read other spiritual literature.

[Gerr]

While it may be good to see what others are thinking about the same subject, why feed on second hand information and not go directly to the source?

Gerry

[Morning Glory]

Hi Pam,

I have had the exact same experience where I read something, think that I have discovered or figured out what the text was saying, then found out it said something different.

Well, this is what I have to say about that. Yes, the Holy Spirit does help us to understand scripture. And, my feeling is that there just might be more than one plausable explaination!! Perhaps the HS was impressing you with one meaning, and then someone else gave their understanding which might not be identical. How about that?

I thought about you this morning. During the course of the Sabbath School class, he (Pastor is the teacher) said that he makes a special effort to NOT use SDA/Christian lingo, but to say what he means in "regular" language. I thought, "Pam should come to our church!!" Would be a heck of a drive, tho!!

When you are reading a text that you have to make an effort to understand, that is when to pray a small prayer to Jesus, and say something to the effect "I'm not sure what this means, would you please help me". I still believe that there are layers of meaning in scripture, and you will peel those layers back one by one at different times.

God Bless,

Morning Glory

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

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Gerry Cabalo said:

While it may be good to see what others are thinking about the same subject, why feed on second hand information and not go directly to the source?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Well...yeah...I know... <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I'm just trying to find a *space* where I don't feel like I'm defeated before I even begin.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

MorningGlory

Yes, the Holy Spirit does help us to understand scripture. And, my feeling is that there just might be more than one plausable explaination!! Perhaps the HS was impressing you with one meaning, and then someone else gave their understanding which might not be identical. How about that?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

::ponders::

I think there ARE multiple meanings to what is written in the Bible. That in itself makes me a bit nervous -- the "hidden book" within the Book. Perhaps *that* is why I seem to dance around reading the Bible too much - in many ways it seems very Kabbalistic to me. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Man, I don't know. I WANT to read the Bible and understand, yet I DON'T want to because of its *mystical* qualities that I perceive it has.. This is a HUGE dilemma for me.

[cricket]

Pam,

Just tagging on a bit to what Morning Glory has already alluded to.

When reading the Bible, the meaning changes for me almost on a daily basis. What has import one day is not so meaningful to me on other days.

An example:

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

For many years I had a basic understanding that there would be no temptation to come by me that was something I couldn't handle--that God wouldn't allow any temptation beyond my capabilities.

After studying it again, after temptations befell me, I realized something completely different: God will allow temptations to come my way; He will provide a way of escape (not necessarily something I already felt I could do on my own); and, that means of escape may or may not stick with me from that moment on.

Anyway...reading the Bible is a way for God to speak to us. The Holy Spirit will provide understanding, and that may be through researching the words and their meanings, or it may be through inspiration, or some other means.

If you are interested in a quick way of finding the meanings of words in the Bible, try http://www.e-sword.net/ e-Sword is a free Bible study guide with references to word meanings (like Strong's Concordance). You will have to download the software, but it is a worthy investment of time.

Chrys

[Gerr]

Pam, if you are honestly seeking, you would never be defeated in God's eyes or mine!!! Besides, the search for truth is not a matter of victory or defeat,(although it may seem that way when it turns into a debate) it is a journey.

Gerry

[there buster]

Pam,

the Bible is a library, a collection of more than 66 books. Don't attempt to read "the Bible" any more than you'd attempt to read "the Library."

Start easy. Find a modern translation that's easy to read, like the Message. Start with one of the Gospels.

Mark is the shortest. John is my favorite. But whichever one you choose, just read the gospel through in one, or at most two, sittings.

Read for the story. Don't get caught up in the details. Just get the flow of the story. Get to know the person they're talking about.

Mark is the shortest gospel-- all action-- whiz! bang!

Matthew is the gospel for the Jews-- Jesus as King, as Israel, as Moses.

Luke is the gospel for gentiles and women--the Greeks, the shepherds, the pregnancy.

John is the gospel for the next generation, for those who never saw Jesus themselves, or directly talked to or heard from any of those who did.

Then you can either read another gospel, or read the same one again. It's surprising how much we can learn by reading the same gospel a second, third, or fortieth time.

Or, you can come up with a set of questions before you read it again, and see if they're answered.

But don't overload yourself. TAke it easy.

[Robert]

Pam,

The Bible cannot be understood through our human intellect. We can't make our mind the measuring stick of truth. Spiritual things must be spiritually understood. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal truth, otherwise the Bible becomes a book of contradictions.

Here's my suggestion in reading the Bible:

Learn the gospel. To do this you'll have to let go of some preconceived ideas. Most likely you already understand the basics. If you do then I suggest reading Paul's letters. Romans is the clearest...then try reading Galatians. Also use an accurate translation and not these paraphrased Bibles. I like the NASB, NIV, RSV and sometimes the NKJV.

Rob :2cents:

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Thanks for the info, Chrys.

e-sword won't work with my mac... I'll have to look around for mac-compatible similar software.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

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Ed Dickerson said:

the Bible is a library, a collection of more than 66 books. Don't attempt to read "the Bible" any more than you'd attempt to read "the Library."

Start easy. Find a modern translation that's easy to read, like the Message. Start with one of the Gospels.

Mark is the shortest. John is my favorite. But whichever one you choose, just read the gospel through in one, or at most two, sittings.

Read for the story. Don't get caught up in the details. Just get the flow of the story. Get to know the person they're talking about.

Mark is the shortest gospel-- all action-- whiz! bang!

Matthew is the gospel for the Jews-- Jesus as King, as Israel, as Moses.

Luke is the gospel for gentiles and women--the Greeks, the shepherds, the pregnancy.

John is the gospel for the next generation, for those who never saw Jesus themselves, or directly talked to or heard from any of those who did.

Then you can either read another gospel, or read the same one again. It's surprising how much we can learn by reading the same gospel a second, third, or fortieth time.

Or, you can come up with a set of questions before you read it again, and see if they're answered.

But don't overload yourself. TAke it easy.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Okay - a library. That makes sense. ::nods:: The parts of the Bible with the stories are the easiest for me to understand. The prophecies/letters books mostly make me look like a deer caught in the headlights.

[Aliensanctuary]

Ed's got the Plan. All we really need to know is what Jesus has told us. The history of all the wars of Israel in the OT is really dry unless we're into history or looking for something.

Another angle is to listen to the Bible on audio CD. Then a person can relax somewhere and close their eyes and try to visualize. I've never read the entire Bible, but I have listened to it, maybe all stretched out, eyes closed, getting sleepy, sleepier...snore, snore, snore...It's OK, we still get it subliminally...

A person can also pop a CD into the computer and listen to the Bible while they play spider solitaire or whatever.

[Pockey]

These may be some helpful articles regarding discovering the Bible by Amazing Facts/Doug Batchelor:

The Ultimate Resource

Discovering the Word: The Ultimate Resource Part 2

[LifeHiscost]

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rudywoofs said:

I've seen written by different people that the Holy Spirit will help a person understand the Bible. Does that mean, then, when I read something and don't *get it* that the Holy Spirit has decided I'm not yet worthy to understand? Just not up to snuff yet? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I'm not certain what early family impressions you may have had of your earthly father, Pam, but if you remember him as a loving father you are a leg up in your ability to recognize your heavenly Father's advice to you. Remember always that the primary foundation of God's character is love, therefore His instructions for you will always convey His loving concern for your wellbeing in concert with how your life will influence others you love.

Often a recognition of the truth of a matter will become self-evident as we ask the question, "What would a loving Father do in this circumstance?"

[:"red"] "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love ." [/] 1 John 4:7,8 KJV Bold mine LHC

[:"red"] "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine... " [/] John 7:17 KJV

[:"red"] "I have still many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them or to take them upon you or to grasp them now. " [/] John 16:12 AMP

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

Blessings!!

[LifeHiscost]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

rudywoofs said:

Man, I don't know. I WANT to read the Bible and understand, yet I DON'T want to because of its *mystical* qualities that I perceive it has.. This is a HUGE dilemma for me.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Learning to know your Father in heaven is not a "one size fits all" experience, Pam. Our Father has as many unique ways of reaching our hearts as He has unique children. Being submissive to what you do understand of His desire for you, will open the way for further counsel of His. There are principles common to all of His children, but the practical application can be as varied as our individual perceptions and needs.

If you would enter into life, seek for a knowledge of Jesus and He will continually guide you deeper and deeper into His plans for you.

[:"red"] "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

" [/] 1 John 5:20 KJV

[:"red"] "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." [/] John 17:3 KJV

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

Keep looking up!!

[LifeHiscost]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Gerry Cabalo said:

Pam, first of all, I believe that no matter what translation or language you use (if you understand the language), I believe that if the person really wants to know the truth, that with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit, one will understand the basic message of salvation that God is trying to convey. But knowing the original languages does take one to another dimension. I personally do not know Hebrew or Greek, but one way to help bridge that deficiency gap is to use & compare as many translations as practicable. And translations made by a group of scholars is better for accuracy than a one man work. Furthermore, with computers and so many Bible software, one can now just push a key and one can instantaneously have access Strong's numbers and see the original Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic, and get a whole range of meanings, and you can decide for yourself the best meaning from the context. When Daniel predicted that "knowledge shall increase," I believe that also includes our understanding of the Scriptures.

God bless you in your pursuit of truth. Claim the promise that, [:"red"]"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me, with all your heart. I will be found by you, says the LORD..." Jer 29:11-14 NKJ. [/] And, [:"red"] "when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth..." Jn 16:13 NKJ. [/]

Gerry

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/yeahthat.gif" alt="" /> and all the <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/Group.gif" alt="" /> said <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/amen2.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/untitled.bmp" alt="" />

[LifeHiscost]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

rudywoofs said:

OTOH, maybe it's just me. I know a lot of times in church the preacher would quote a text and everyone would say "amen" and nod - 'cept me. ::sigh:: Believe me, there's nothing that makes a person feel more like an outsider than to have people around you talking about stuff that you have no clue about - even when you read the script.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Not to say this is definately true, but maybe that's because our Father is waiting for you to approach Him directly through His Son, instead of seeing His children as the main avenue of receiving Him. Just a suggestion of a possibility. Remember, you are His child. I don't remember very often as a child going to my big brother to ask what Dad wanted of me.

This is in no way meant to infer a withdrawel from the body of Christ (all of His children). Just a sense that He wishes you to be far more intimate with Him than having to go through an intermediary for Him to make Himself known to you.

[:"red"] "And behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake; and after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice.

So it was, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. Suddenly a voice came to him, and said, “What are you doing here, " [/] 1 Kings 19:11-13 NKJV

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

[there buster]

There's plenty of substance in the four gospels. Most people quickly discover which one they like best-- which one speaks to them the most.

So read them-- or it-- as long as you feel fed. You'll know when it's time to branch out.

And always remember this: the narrative--the story-- is 90% of the value. Even when it comes to understanding prophecy, the story of the Bible forms the key.

Another way to think of the Bible is like medicine. Some people need broad-spectrum antibiotics, reading a little of everything. Others need long-term medication to build up their system, getting the same thing on a regular basis. Given what you've revealed of yourself, I think you're one of the latter. You need some long-term healing. The gospels are the way to go. Nothing is more healing than to spend time with Jesus.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm reading Luke. I don't think I ever read it before.