Actor Mel facing prison

[Toni]

I just thought it was very interesting, the different emphasis at different websites. :-) It was like I was reading two different stories.

[Halfstep Denise]

According to the CNN breaking news e-mail I received this afternoon, Mel Gibson has reportedly entered rehab. But as far as I know, it hasn't been verified yet. The first one to report it was the Star Magazine!!! Not one of the best for accurate reporting, IMO!

Halfstep Denise <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Kountzer]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

"He came unto His own, and His own received Him not." John 1:11

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

That could easily be seen as a referral to a lot of non jewish people, including a lot of christians.

[Dr. Shane]

Not in light of Daniel 9:24

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

[Gail]

Well, I guess if there is any bright side to this story, it would be that for a few days I didn't have to endure any more of Brad and Angelina's or Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes' baby news...

It is amazing how much attention celebrity lives attract

[Amelia]

Booking photo

[]http://hosted.ap.org/photos/8/8a4c8f22-3af6-4f53-8590-0def64da9ff8-big.jpg[/]

[Dr. Shane]

Hmmmm, he had a beard in the photo I saw.

[Amelia]

Mel Gibson deserves pity, not pillory

By Andrew O'Hagan

2 Aug 2006

The Telegraph UK

A Scottish actor who worked on Braveheart once told a director friend of mine what it was like working with Mel Gibson. "He's off his head," alleged the actor. "We'd all be standing there in kilts and with blue woad painted on our faces, ready to do a shot, when suddenly Mel would announce to the Alcoholics Anonymous members among us - a healthy number - that we had to have a meeting. So there we would be, behind the catering van with painted faces, reading from the Big Book and sharing our experience. You know, 'My name's Mel and I'm an alcoholic,' then we'd all go back to the set and get stuck into the English."

Recovering alcoholics like to say that they're sober one day at a time, and it can't be easy knowing that you're always just one drink away from your former self. Gibson went spectacularly off the rails last Friday and reportedly did what many alcoholics do - he allegedly drove his car at nearly 90mph, drank from a bottle of tequila, got stopped and arrested, and verbally abused the officers in charge. As situations go, it wasn't very striking, except that the drunk was a Hollywood star. It certainly wasn't unusual that the arrested person issued a stream of abuse at the police, racist, misogynist or otherwise. All police will tell you this is standard. Gibson reportedly said: "F---ing Jews. The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world."

Silly man - pathetic, even. There isn't an ounce of reason in what Gibson said, but then, who could expect there to be? Well, the entire Western world, apparently, which imagines that what a drunk Catholic actor says in the extremity of his cups might represent a threat to civilisation.

The world at present is many kinds of daft, but one of the idiocies we never seem to comment on is the worldwide propensity to knock everything out of proportion. Gibson is not an admirable man (nor, in my view, a very talented actor) and his opinions on most things, from Christ to homosexuality, have always seemed pretty bonkers. But I don't understand why he must now be crucified himself for saying the kind of stupid thing that stupid people say all the time.

If we peel back the layers of the Gibson fiasco, we see something much darker and more troubling, not about him - he's just a fool - but about the society which needs to produce a scapegoat in him.

Dangerously worded as it was, Gibson's drunken comment was, it could reasonably be argued, a statement against the arrogance of the Israeli military: "They started all the wars in the world." Isn't it that which is making America call for his head?

Of course it isn't even remotely true that Jews are behind most wars, but it is true that they are behind most movies, and pundits are saying that Gibson may never work again in Hollywood. But their response is overbearing and slightly hysterical: if black or Hispanic or Asian people sought action every time a ludicrous remark was made against them by a drunkard, the world would fall to pieces.

We live in a country that, not 50 years ago, used to have signs in many boarding-house windows saying: "No Blacks. No Dogs. No Irish". Nobody liked it, and some took action, but if Irish or black people (or Asians, or Poles) took to heart everything said against them in pubs, our jails would be crammed to the gills with name-callers, even today.

There's a problem here. Jews, and by extension Israelis, are un-insultable in ethnic terms, though everybody else is. I know it's hard to tell a people who saw six million of their number murdered to turn the other cheek, but turn the other cheek they must, unless they want to present themselves as the great unimpeachable race apart.

Gibson's absurd remark should be like water off a duck's back, but no: in the eyes of American Jews, it is a sin against nature, and he must be punished to within an inch of his life.

In the present Middle East crisis - and since the horror of 9/11 overall - it has become pretty impossible to make any remarks about Jews or against Israel which are not immediately seen to be either monstrously anti-Semitic, or indicative of supporting terrorism. The thought-police are out in force in almost every publication in America, and to suggest that the Israeli lobby has an undue weight on American foreign policy - as two writers did recently in the London Review of Books - can cause a storm of protest, much of it insinuating that the authors or the publications concerned hate Jews.

Further, it is suggested that any Jews who criticise Israeli actions are self-hating. These seem to me to be insults of a much more worrying kind.

You can't police thoughts; and only a fool would seek to police the rantings of a drunken actor. Hollywood Jews, in the last century, were often the very people who fought for liberal freedoms - of speech, of thought, of political complexion - and their recent oversensitivity to insult puts them in the seat of their former enemies, the McCarthyites who once sought to silence so many of them.

American debate has shrivelled in recent times, and I do not mistake Gibson's ranting for the tradition of dissent that once glorified the American scene. Yet I cannot believe that overreacting to people such as him can do the cause of free speech any favours. There are many hundreds of millions in the world who believe that the Jewish state is a force of incredible arrogance and self-interest, and though the cause of such believers will in no way be forwarded by the ravings of a drunken man, neither will Israel be helped by those who turn silly insults into abominations.

There seems to be no question of forgiveness for Mel Gibson. No question of proportion, to say nothing of understanding for a damaged person struggling with the nightmare of alcoholism. We need not plead his case, but perhaps, in the midst of the mass execration now engulfing him, we should remind ourselves that no people which cares for balance and calmness - not even God's people - should assume itself to exist above the common miseries of man.

[Gerr]

Just tagging on.

Hollywood and the press go berzerk when anything anti-Semitic is uttered. Has anybody asked Mel Gibson or his Dad why they feel this way? At the risk of being labeled anti-Semitic myself, let me ask, is it possible he (Mel) got snobbed by the Jews who control Hollywood, and that he succeeded in Hollywood inspite of them?

Racism, anti-black, anti-asian, anti-semtic, anti-irish, or whatever, has no place in a civilized society. But has the press examined what Jews have to say about Gentiles?

Are Jews free/innocent of racism? From the Talmud:

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

Baba Mezia 24a. If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned.

Yebamoth 98a. All Gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

These are just a few. If anyone wants to see more despicable quotes, look in the internet under "Race Hate", or http://www.etv.com/HRP/racehate/talmud1.htm

NY Times, June 6, 1989 p. 5) Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg was quoted, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing."

NY Daily News, Feb 28, 1994, p.6, Rabbi Yaacov Perin was quoted saying, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."

The above quotes are from Michael A. HoffmanII & Alan R. Critchley, "THE TRUTH ABOUT THE TALMUD, Judaism's Holiest Book".

Gerry

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Bonnie,

I was once a practicing alcoholic and know what it's like to be messed up. For those people who have stopped drinking and then start again, they have their reasons and they're not good, but to the person drinking it's an escape, even though it's destructive. It seems to be the only way at the moment. It's like a person who has a certain food that they know they shouldn't eat because it's bad for their heart or health but still go ahead and eat it. They don't care about who they may hurt if they die, they are trying to justify what they know to be wrong. Then as with all sin, regret sets in. We call it repentance. Some true and some for self pity and to avoid consequencies.

My point was to pray for him because he like prostitutes, homeless people, aids suffers, "publicans and sinners" in general need help. We are commsioned to help such, not only the "rightesous" clean people.

I have read and heard that when someone drinks that their true thoughts or feelings come out. Two things: one Satan temps all of us and when we drink we are not able to resist as when we are sober. The temptations are not our true thoughts, they are what we may have loved or thought but for us (God's children) we can't take temptation as belonging to us.

Two:

Drinking brings out our true feelings. This is the case most of the time, but with some people it is not the case. Some who drink lose all ability to reason and/or are basically walking unconscious.

When I drank a lot or when I drank hard liquor I used to blank out or black out. The next day I had no idea where I was, what I did, who I was with, how I got where I was and was at the mercy of my friends (who'd laugh at me) for that information. I would think that in a state like that I would have been possessed by the evil angels. I may have been protected by God but was used by Satan to cause pain to myself and to others.

It was the knowledge of this pain that I was causing others that helped me decide to do something about myself and to stop drinking.

That's why I said pray for him.

Norman

[bonnie]

Norman,

I was not questioning why you said it, or finding fault with the fact of what you said.

To often or most often there is a distinct difference made in what can peompt some to compassion and prayer for them.

Few,and there are a few here that do think in those terms. For many of the others, if you are a terrorist that blows up himself and others, you deserve understanding and compassion. They are really doing so thru the fault, lack of understanding and generosity of others.Drug addicts are that way because this country does not provide the funding for clinics , sexual predators need our understanding, we don't spend enough to cure the problem.

Palistinians that routinely blow up innocent people are to be understood, and basicaly here with the exception of that very few, it is those Jews that have caused them to behave in this manner. Regardless of what takes place between the two factions I have seen most lay the blame on the doorstep of the Jews. A little anti-semitism without the vulgar remarks?????

Yet, whether it is the press or on a forum such as this, anti-semitism is the concern. Not the very real potential for the death of Mel Gibson or someone else, many times a whole family.

Alcohol is not the problem in this, his remarks are what made this to awful for the typical compassion and suggestion of prayer. Selective compassion and prayer are thrown around like confetti. To be used when it can be made to sound ever so christian

[bonnie]

I remember when Saddam was captured and a less than flattering picture was released. Here and elsewhere the sympathies moved immediately to Saddam and against the US. After all, it wasn't very christian to show him in such a humiliating state,yada, yada, yada.

Now Mel Gibson has been shown in a less than flattering light. No real sympathy from most. Let's concentrate on what the nasty Mel said and how it sounded.

Saddam who showed racism to the extreme, placed people that displeased him alive in shredders and more , caused great concern that he was publically humiliated and scorn for the US in humiliating this poor, misguided man.

Far to selective it appears to be true christian concern for either , more of an opportunity to "show" christian spirit.

[Gerr]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[:"blue"]It should read, "....NO liability;" [/]

Gerry

[Toni]

I thought this was a really compassionate response from this Rabbi, and I hope healing can come from it. It really warmed my heart to read.

http://www.tmz.com/2006/08/01/gibsons-new-gig-yom-kippur-keynote-speaker

[Guest]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

bonnie said:

Drinking is more acceptable to most, sadly even among some SDA's. For me, let me face a guy on the road with a cigerette in his mouth than one who has been drinking.

It is more a matter of what we approve of, decide we can tolerate than the power of the alcohol lobby. Cigerette smoking in public places was an activity the general public decided not to tolerate. Great progress has been made

Bonnie

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">Bonnie

This is not to disagree with you on the seriousness of drinking and driving; in fact if I see someone doing that; I always pull over, get out my cell phone, and call the police with the details they need. They will take immediate action here in Alberta.

But the smoking thing can be a little deceptive. Have you ever experienced a smoker who was trying to light up, while turning a corner? I have. It created a very serious accident.

How does one call the police on something like that?

What I won't say is whether or not I was the smoker, or the other driver. Just wanted to make a point that smoking and driving is very unsafe too.

[Guest]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Amelia said:

There's a problem here. Jews, and by extension Israelis, are un-insultable in ethnic terms, though everybody else is. I know it's hard to tell a people who saw six million of their number murdered to turn the other cheek, but turn the other cheek they must, unless they want to present themselves as the great unimpeachable race apart.

In the present Middle East crisis - and since the horror of 9/11 overall - it has become pretty impossible to make any remarks about Jews or against Israel which are not immediately seen to be either monstrously anti-Semitic, or indicative of supporting terrorism. The thought-police are out in force in almost every publication in America,

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">Gay people are also in this "unimpeachable" bracket. There are many groups who claim and get this kind of "recognition" now..."tolerance" is the keyword; and in Canada, the legislation is happening to "promote" this tolerance.

I keep it even simpler. Why do Mel's DUI charges even need to be discussed? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/dizzy.gif" alt="" />

[bonnie]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

calgary_guy said:

This is not to disagree with you on the seriousness of drinking and driving; in fact if I see someone doing that; I always pull over, get out my cell phone, and call the police with the details they need. They will take immediate action here in Alberta.

But the smoking thing can be a little deceptive. Have you ever experienced a smoker who was trying to light up, while turning a corner? I have. It created a very serious accident.

How does one call the police on something like that?

What I won't say is whether or not I was the smoker, or the other driver. Just wanted to make a point that smoking and driving is very unsafe too.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

There is a big difference in the two. Dead is dead no matter how it happens, but a cigarette does not give the same euphoric carelessness of alcohol.

Since 1948 we have lost in our family 20 some young people and not one was due to someone smoking. All were alcohol related and caused by high speed. Never had a chance to get out of their way.

We lost a dedicated wondeful DR in our area to a completely irresponsible woman actually putting on her makeup while driving. She slightly injured, he was dead.

Many careless acts can cause injury and death. Alcohol is the one along with drugs that cause those using to lose the ability to judge their capabilities under the influence.

Even so, you do not hear the hand wringing over alcohol, and like it or not, that includes SDA's that you do over tobacco.

I still would rather face a careless smoker in a vehicle, than I would someone under the influence doing 80 miles an hour.

Been there, done that, let me deal with the smoker any day. Get those that drink off the road.

[Dr. Shane]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Have you ever experienced a smoker who was trying to light up, while turning a corner?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

If the cigarette lighter in the car is working it is pretty easy. Mine didn't work and I didn't have a match... (this was back in my smoking days) but I had a propane blow torch in the back seat with its flint lighter. So while driving down the road I had to fish the blow torch out of the back seat, light it with the flint scratch lighter and then light my cigarette with the blow torch. I was a little distracted but luckly didn't get in an accident.

[Dr. Shane]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Why do Mel's DUI charges even need to be discussed?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Drunk drivers are the greatest danger on our highways and our highways are one of the greatest killers in America. I think a celebrity getting a DUI is a good time to discuss the issue. And that is the story here. Who cares about Mel's anti-semitism? Unless he is running for public office, I don't care what he thinks.

[bonnie]

What was the difference in your conduct,your perception, your speed while driving, and the possibility of passing out at the wheel.

Did cigarette smoking cause you to drive down the highway at 80 miles an hour?? Did you know at all times what you were doing while you were drinking? Major difference.

Carelessness causes a great deal of accidents, but how much is tobacco related and how much is alcohol related.

At one time my husband did both. He always knew what he was doing while smoking, can't say the same for drinking or that many times he even remembered.

[Guest]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Shane said:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Have you ever experienced a smoker who was trying to light up, while turning a corner?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

If the cigarette lighter in the car is working it is pretty easy. Mine didn't work and I didn't have a match... (this was back in my smoking days) but I had a propane blow torch in the back seat with its flint lighter. So while driving down the road I had to fish the blow torch out of the back seat, light it with the flint scratch lighter and then light my cigarette with the blow torch. I was a little distracted but luckly didn't get in an accident.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Wow! Shane! That's pretty drastic just to light up your "weed." You sound almost like the welder in my shop who sometimes lights his smokes with a MIG Welder...Atleast he isn't on the road when he does all that. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Bonnie, your points re drunk driving are well taken, I am just saying that driver & pedestrian safety is everyones responsibility.

If this incident will change Mel for the better, then perhaps, in a "celebrity" case like this; all the public scorn or other actions against him will actually be of help.

Some; will obviously go too far in addressing what Mel has said or done; but guys like this do need to learn how fast and hard they can kill someone when under the influence of drugs or alcohol, while driving. I lost my very first "girlfriend" when I was just 7 years old to a drunk driver. She was nearly decapitated, and it was her Dad that did it. I could tell Mel quite a few things about the perils of drinking and driving, as could many others.

As far as Mel's Catholic standings; I do know from some Catholics I have been studying with that he has set up some sort of "independent" church which the official Catholic Church does not support.

I would have to do a little digging to confirm that; but I say it only because there is likely a lot we don't know about his unfortunate situation; except that Mel needs to learn not to drive if he is going to drink or do drugs.

And he needs to still know that Jesus wants Him in His kingdom.

Perhaps a longer term question for us here is how will we do that? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/163860-EmoticonPrayer.gif" alt="" />

[Dr. Shane]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

The arresting officer was just doing his job and I feel fortunate that I was apprehended before I caused injury to any other person.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

As a sober individual, Mel knows the dangers of drunk driving.

[Amelia]

Gibson brings in veteran defence lawyer amid drink driving charge

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200608/s1707024.htm

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

As a first-time drink driving offender, Gibson most likely would get probation plus a fine and perhaps community service.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

If convicted, he faces up to six months in jail.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">