GHansen, giving credit where credit is due

[Gustave]

I received word today from the Concordia Seminary  Archive / Library Director that they were unable to find the quote and citation as found in both Walter Martin's Kingdom of the Cults and Dr. Morey's Death and the after life in any English translation of any of Luther's books that they were aware of. I was informed that the quote was indeed a valid / accurate translation from German into English but that it wasn't from Luther's Work's Volume 25 but rather from Luther's Commentary on Genesis ( as GHansen suspected it was ). I would have lost money had this been a bet! 

I wanted to compliment GHansen on his command of Luther's materials that have been translated into English and for him having the courage of his convictions to go down swinging. I respect that. 

According to Concordia Luther was definitely not an advocate of soul sleep and toward the end of his life there was no doubt about that. 

 

[GHansen]

6 hours ago, Gustave said:

According to Concordia Luther was definitely not an advocate of soul sleep and toward the end of his life there was no doubt about that. 

Not sure how you figure I "went down." I was right. This is not a big deal. People often get references confused. An editor contacted me about a wrong footnote in an article he was preparing for publication. There were a lot of references to old books, periodicals, and the like. He was checking every reference for accuracy. I checked the footnote and discovered that the error was not mine but that the source I quoted had their note wrong. Another time, an opponent was referencing authors I was familiar with. I knew he was mistaken. He cited all kinds of "proofs." some from "experts." They were all wrong. Not a single citation panned out. Some of his proofs were from other experts who also were referencing mistakes  I've been wrong, unfortunately, will probably be wrong in the future. I try to minimize errors by sticking with primary sources.

Chatting with a librarian, he mentioned that he had an M.Div from a famous university but had never studied the Bible. Academic credentials may mean something. They may not. Depends who has them and who doesn't. 

Your closing remark about Luther and soul sleep, from a third party, indicates you still have not learned your lesson.  I've been asked to "let this go" so I won't go into detail other than to say I have data from ~5 years before his death that indicates he did believe in soul sleep but he defined it in his own way.

[Gustave]

By went down I was referring to your stopping of posts in that other thread. I'm pretty sure that what you were asked to let go had absolutely nothing to do with your citing parts of Martin Luther's writings and offering arguments but rather the "coating" you had accompanying your apologetics. I could be wrong but I doubt that you were asked to stop posting / arguing that Luther didn't believe in soul sleeping . This simply tells me you have yet to lean this lesson - you will be much more happy once you do. 

In any event I created this post as an open admission that you were right about the one Luther quote I pulled out of the two well known books. The quote didn't come from where the two Author's said it did and it didn't word for word line up with any existing English translation of Luther's works. That's the only take away here.

I was told someone who spoke German translated it themselves AND that while the translation used "converse" instead of "discourse" the meaning had not been changed and it was a valid translation - the incorrect part was the citation of where it could be found as someone would have had to translate it from the German themselves to get what they got - exactly what you suggested - doing your own research, right? lol!

Again, someone can correct me if I'm wrong here but I couldn't see anything wrong with your apologetics pertaining to defending what you believe Martin Luther said - the problem was the other stuff you were pouring into your posts - like when you besmirched the SDA Professor when he essentially agreed with the majority of educated Lutherans in what Luther believed about the Sabbath - that was the part or your postings I understood you were asked to let go. 

Now, if letting that other part of your apologetics style go is beyond your ability you are right, you shouldn't post anymore about Martin Luther, particularly where credentialed SDA's agree with credentialed Lutherans as to what Luther did or didn't believe. 

I've got a copy of the Code Of Canon Law in my Library, I could have spent 25 years doing nothing but studying that book and anytime I saw a Magisterial statement come out of the Church that I believed conflicted with the Code I could raise hell about it - correct the college of Bishops, etc. That's not the way any of this works though. 

 

 

[stinsonmarri]

This is truly interesting about Luther. For me, my expertise is in ancient Biblical history and not strong in the Reformation. I am guilty that I have followed the norm and we shouldn't. That's one of the major things I speak against, and I have done the same in this case. I know some, I have to say, but not enough. I am interested in what did Luther say about the Sabbath? I feel that what he said would be important and does not necessarily have to be what me or SDA accept. I believe that something that he brings out it is important historically. I feel you have to be able to study and research to make the choices you stand on. Yes, I feel that it must be Biblically sound. However, I would like to see the Scriptures he used and how he came to that conclusion. It's always, to me, in helping us in our growth of knowledge and understanding truth and faith. 

So, GHansen can you provide me some information, please! I thank you very much. Let me say thanks, to Gustave for being honest and bringing out this important information!

Blessings!