EGW on Daniel and Revelation

[ReturntoDar]

It was Ellen Whites idea to have "Thoughts on Revelation" (1863) and "Thoughts on Daniel" (1875, as I recall?) combined into one book, "Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation".

She noted that the sincere seeker of truth would NOT be detained by minor errors in the book. In a similar manner, a seeker of truth will not be detained by minor errors in her own writings.

On two occasions in she endorsed what the pioneers were teaching/preaching SPECIFICALLY on Daniel 11:45, the "Eastern Question". This book (Daniel and Revelation) should be in all our schools. The "Eastern Question" was presented not only from the pulpit but in the Sabbath School lesson and Bible Reading for the Home. What IS the "Eastern Question"? The king of the north is Turkey. The pioneers understood as early as the 1850's that Daniel 11:44 was fulfilled by the Crimean War. There was only one verse left before Michael stood up and probation would close.

From the 1850's until the time of her death, 1915, she NEVER ONCE recounted, adjusted, made changes to the official position of the Church on the correct interpretations of both Daniel and of Revelation. These interpretations were not the fruit of one man, they resulted from a large study group in Battle Creek that set out to understand and these two books. That study group met for ten years!! James White was the appointed scribe to write out their findings. He began with the book of Revelation, up to about chapter 12. Then due to his busy schedule, Uriah Smith was called upon to finish the book, "Thoughts on Revelation". He would continue with the book of Daniel.

The identity of the king of the north is no minor issue. Daniel 11:45 is the ONLY verse in the Bible that gives us specific and detailed information as to when the close of probation is on the very door step. When the first part of this verse is fulfilled (Turkey conquers Palestine, "Israel" today) this is the equivalent of the animals going into the Ark in Noah's day. When Turkey "comes to his end" (verse 45 part 2) then Michael stands up.

Verse 45, part one WILL BE FULFILLED BEFORE the Sunday law takes place. The great bulk of Adventists today will deny it is a fulfillment. They deny the pioneers views today, they will continue to do so, in spite of seeing it with their own eyes. It could then be said, "Though one rose from the dead, they would not believe".

[GHansen]

9 hours ago, ReturntoDar said:

These interpretations were not the fruit of one man, they resulted from a large study group in Battle Creek that set out to understand and these two books. That study group met for ten years!! James White was the appointed scribe to write out their findings. He began with the book of Revelation, up to about chapter 12. Then due to his busy schedule, Uriah Smith was called upon to finish the book, "Thoughts on Revelation". He would continue with the book of Daniel.

Any idea who was on this committee? Where does this information come from?

 

[ReturntoDar]

I have searched for names of this study group, which met for about TEN YEARS!!! I suspect some came in, others dropped out over that time. I can find no record of specific names, but for sure James White and Uriah Smith played major roles. This group was formed fairly early on in Adventist history. It was the first time they took a very serious look at prophecy in detail. Revelation first, which was so successful (God led them!) they then moved onto Daniel.

There are many, many statements from Sister White endorsing "Thoughts on Daniel and Revelation". She says it should be in all our schools. Ministers should study it. There is no doubt this book was highly regarded. Very interesting that this information was not given to the prophet: instead (and this is awesome) it was given to the CHURCH!! I think that is profound. God could have certainly given the correct interpretations of prophecy (Daniel and Revelation) to the prophet, but honored His people in their desire to understand the prophecies.

We, as a people, have lost much because of our recurring doubts, and disputes over this book. Think about it: Thoughts on Revelation, published 1863. Ellen White had the rest of her life (to 1915) to correct, counsel, point out whatever needed correction. What did she say? DO NOT EDIT THE BOOK!! Leave it as is, minor mistakes and all. WHY? Because, she continues, IF we begin to edit it, it will lessen confidence and cause confusion. I'm looking at the 1944 edition, which is "OK", but in my opinion, the early editions (1897 and 1912) are the only ones specifically endorsed by the prophet.

Daniel 11:44, fulfilled in the Crimean War of 1856. Let that sink in! Sister White never, not once, refuted that position! Today? It is almost universally disregarded and considered error. The result? Mass confusion on the prophecies, multiple theories, hardly one commentator is in agreement on: Daniel 11 in general, Revelation 12 is another BIG mistake in our modern SDA Church. Revelation 17 is another huge mistake. You want the truth on prophecy? Accept the counsel of the prophet as to where to find it!

[GHansen]

3 hours ago, ReturntoDar said:

I have searched for names of this study group, which met for about TEN YEARS!!! I suspect some came in, others dropped out over that time. I can find no record of specific names, but for sure James White and Uriah Smith played major roles. This group was formed fairly early on in Adventist history. It was the first time they took a very serious look at prophecy in detail.

I'd still like to know what your source is for this information. I've heard of the Daniel committee which met for several years in more modern times. It included Ray Cottrell, Don Neufeld, Earle Higgert and others. It met for several years, disbanded and published nothing. In earlier times, W.W. Prescott wrote a tract on the "daily" in which he challenged SDA scholarship in the fields of history and Biblical languages. If you can't find out who was on the committee to which you refer, how do you know it existed?  

[ReturntoDar]

Research the "The Sabbath Conferences" of 1848 to 1850, about twenty of them. Those who largely comprised this group would have very likely been the same ones who followed those conferences up with the first serious study of Revelation. Which was followed by our first serious study of Daniel. Bates, Elder Edson, James White of course were among these men. Ellen White reports that during the "Sabbath Conference" meetings her mind was "locked", she could not understand the brethren. However, she would be taken off in vision and then report back to the group to guide them when they were in error. She says of this time, it was the saddest in her life. She so wanted to participate, but she could not. In a similar manner, so it was with our first studies of Revelation, followed by Daniel, she did not take part in these studies, but her husband did. Count it, she was closely watching and waiting for their discoveries and James was in the thick of it.

Since these studies began in the 1850's it is reasonable that many of the same men involved in the Sabbath Conferences were also those who spear headed the early studies on the prophecies. The first fruit was "Thoughts on Revelation", 1863. James White was among the first to report that Daniel 11:44 was fulfilled in 1856. That official position of the Church began to come under attack in the 1940's and very much has now changed, been rebutted, disagreement is on every hand. Whereas the pioneers were united on the prophecies. When, in 1877, James refuted Uriah over verse 45, he was very carefully told to shut up by his wife, the prophet! Imagine being married to a prophet, whew... you can't hide anything!

“The books ‘Daniel and Revelation’ and ‘The Great Controversy’ are the books which above all others, should be in circulation now. Give them to the people. Light and truth they must have.” 21MR, 452

"God used the author of this book [Daniel and the Revelation] as a channel through which to communicate light to direct minds to the truth." 4MR, 152

[ReturntoDar]

By the way, all though the 1944 edition of "DaR" suggests that it was only speculation the pioneers offered on this verse, as the CIRCUMSTANCES of Russia invading and driving the Turk out his homeland: not so fast! I do not discount that potential outcome even today!

Russia wants Turkey because of the "Straits" which give them access to their homeland through the Black Sea. They STILL want it! Is that what will drive the Turk to declare war on Israel? Hmmm, maybe not. Turkey wants Jerusalem as badly as Russian wants Turkey. The Turks don't need a reason to attack Israel, when the time is right, they will indeed take back what they consider "their homeland". The Turk declares, openly, often and today, that Jerusalem is for the Muslims, it belongs to them, not the Jews. They owned it for centuries, they want it back. Verse 45 says, they shall have it!

How? Under what circumstances? When? Ah, these are the questions! It WILL happen, on this, we have the "sure word of prophecy". Keep watching, at some point, the "animals will go into the Ark" (the Turk will conquer Israel) and the end of all things will be on our very door step!

[hobie]

On 9/26/2021 at 3:58 AM, ReturntoDar said:

It was Ellen Whites idea to have "Thoughts on Revelation" (1863) and "Thoughts on Daniel" (1875, as I recall?) combined into one book, "Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation".

She noted that the sincere seeker of truth would NOT be detained by minor errors in the book. In a similar manner, a seeker of truth will not be detained by minor errors in her own writings.

On two occasions in she endorsed what the pioneers were teaching/preaching SPECIFICALLY on Daniel 11:45, the "Eastern Question". This book (Daniel and Revelation) should be in all our schools. The "Eastern Question" was presented not only from the pulpit but in the Sabbath School lesson and Bible Reading for the Home. What IS the "Eastern Question"? The king of the north is Turkey. The pioneers understood as early as the 1850's that Daniel 11:44 was fulfilled by the Crimean War. There was only one verse left before Michael stood up and probation would close.

From the 1850's until the time of her death, 1915, she NEVER ONCE recounted, adjusted, made changes to the official position of the Church on the correct interpretations of both Daniel and of Revelation. These interpretations were not the fruit of one man, they resulted from a large study group in Battle Creek that set out to understand and these two books. That study group met for ten years!! James White was the appointed scribe to write out their findings. He began with the book of Revelation, up to about chapter 12. Then due to his busy schedule, Uriah Smith was called upon to finish the book, "Thoughts on Revelation". He would continue with the book of Daniel.

The identity of the king of the north is no minor issue. Daniel 11:45 is the ONLY verse in the Bible that gives us specific and detailed information as to when the close of probation is on the very door step. When the first part of this verse is fulfilled (Turkey conquers Palestine, "Israel" today) this is the equivalent of the animals going into the Ark in Noah's day. When Turkey "comes to his end" (verse 45 part 2) then Michael stands up.

Verse 45, part one WILL BE FULFILLED BEFORE the Sunday law takes place. The great bulk of Adventists today will deny it is a fulfillment. They deny the pioneers views today, they will continue to do so, in spite of seeing it with their own eyes. It could then be said, "Though one rose from the dead, they would not believe".

Well, no one has been able to crack the King of the North Gordian knot, and Turkey has its proxies in place in Syria. Just saying...

[Challenger]

On 5/9/2026 at 3:45 PM, hobie said:

Well, no one has been able to crack the King of the North Gordian knot, and Turkey has its proxies in place in Syria. Just saying...

 

The consensus of this entire thread seems to be Turkey is to conquer Israel, fulling Dan. 11:45, which will mark the end of probation. My humble opinion is this misses reality by a long shot. How would such an event force all of mankind, believers and nonbelievers to either choose to worship Christ or the Man of Sin/ Lucifer?  Please enlighten me, in the interim please consider a broader view. This is taken from (Jesus Final Victory, pgs. 114-117, by Larry Wilson)

The Time of the End The final segment of this vision (Dan.11:36-12:13) pertains to those who will live at the time of the end. God has provided this information because the final generation needs to understand certain things about the time of wrath. The most amazing event prior to the Second Coming will be the physical appearing of the devil. [Not Turkey conquering Israel] The appearing and work of Lucifer is described twice in the book of Daniel. God uses repetition and enlargement to inform His children about the future activities of the devil. 

{36} “Two-thirds of the way through the Great Tribulation, the forward advancement of the gospel of Jesus Christ will come to a stand still. At that point in time, almost everyone will have heard the gospel and will have made their decision to embrace it or reject it. Jesus became a man to save the world from sin. Lucifer will become a man to lead the world into destruction. God is fair. Jesus physically appeared and the devil will be permitted to physically appear. God allows the devil to physically appear so that sincere people can compare God’s way of love with Lucifer’s use of force, lies and manipulation. God will permit the devil to masquerade and exalt himself as Almighty God. God “sends this delusion” to complete the tyranny of evil that began thousands of years ago. The devil will make all kinds of outrageous claims and he will do as he pleases because no one can stop him. When he first appears, he will appear to be generous and benevolent. He will feed the multitudes, just as Jesus did, and perform incredible healing miracles with signs and wonders. All this will be done for one malevolent purpose; Lucifer seeks the worship and honor that belongs to Jesus. Meanwhile, the saints will be trapped in “no-man’s land.” They cannot unite with those who believe that the devil is God (the religious wicked) and they cannot unite with the non-religious wicked who want nothing to do with Lucifer. The devil will exalt and magnify himself above every god known to mankind and he will say unheard of things against the Most High God. Lucifer will eventually gain control of the whole world. However, his true identity will be exposed during the fifth bowl, for what has been predetermined by the Most High God will surely take place.

{37} “When the devil appears, he will show no respect for any of the traditional gods (false gods) which the people of the world honor and worship. The devil will show no respect for the Holy One of Israel, the Messiah, the male child which every woman in Israel desires to have as a Son. The devil will exalt himself above them all.{38} “Instead of respecting the gods that the world’s different religions have known and trusted, he will denounce them all and trample them into the dirt. When the sixth trumpet sounds, the devil will abolish the religions and governments of the world and in their place, he will establish a false theocracy (a one world church-state). Everyone will be carefully monitored because promotions and extra rations of food will be given to snitches. Every-one will be required to worship according to the laws that Lucifer establishes. The world will become as one city, and the devil’s fortress will be his government. He will turn brother against brother and neighbor against neighbor. Those who worship Lucifer will be fearful because there will be secret police everywhere. No one will be able to trust anyone. Lucifer will rule the world as ‘Lord of lords and King of kings through terror. Everyone on Earth will be required to obey his laws or be killed. The devil will finance his theocracy with gold and silver, precious stones, and costly gifts.

{39} “At the time of the sixth trumpet, Jesus will give the devil authority to forcibly take over the world. Lucifer will lead a fierce attack against the political powers that oppose him (the non-religious wicked) and the devil’s theocracy will be set up. The devil and his followers will destroy a third of mankind. He will greatly honor those leaders who acknowledge that he is “God.” The devil will abolish the nations and religions of the world, he will dissolve all national boundaries and divide the world into ten sectors.He will appoint ten puppet-kings to rule as taskmasters over his slaves, the people of the world. The devil will claim ownership over all real estate and he will redistribute the land to the highest bidders. He will be heartless, ruthless, and lawless. This explains to some extent why the devil must be permitted to physically appear. Jesus wants everyone in the universe to observe what any sinner would do if given sovereign authority.

{40} “During the sixth trumpet, a few sincere people will come to their senses. When they observe Lucifer’s true character and his evil ways, they will repent of their rebellion and embrace Jesus and His gospel. A few people will finally see that in serving Jesus Christ, there is genuine freedom, but this truth will not become evident until they discover that Lucifer rules through slavery and bondage. Many non-religious people will refuse to embrace the gospel of Jesus and they will also hate the devil’s great authority.These people will unite (under the direction of a rebel king) and in a desperate effort to overthrow the devil, they will seal their own fate. The devil will respond with overwhelming force. He and his followers will attack his adversaries by land, air, and a great fleet of ships. He will invade and destroy many countries, and sweep through them like a tsunami, an unstoppable wall of water. 

{41} “During the sixth trumpet, Lucifer’s army will invade many countries, including Israel. His enemies will fall, but the Most High God will keep his success within bounds. Some of the Israelites escaped the destruction of Nebuchadnezzar by fleeing to the remote areas of Edom and Moab. In a similar way, God will sustain some of His people during the end of days. People like the leaders of Ammon, who kindly protected your people when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, will also be delivered from Lucifer’s hand. {42} “Ultimately, the devil will impose his government on the world. Egypt will not escape his dominion. 

{43} The devil will also control the wealth of the world. Even those who hate himand those who hate the Most High God will have no choice but to

submit to him, for no person will be able to buy or sell unless he submits to Lucifer’s laws and wears his approval (a tattoo called the mark of the beast). {44} “During the sixth trumpet, the 144,000 will announce three messages to the world: (a) the approaching end of salvation’s offer, (b) that everyone who worships the devil will be punished during the seven bowls, and (c) that Jesus’ return is imminent. These announcements will make the devil very angry. In a rage, he will attempt to kill everyone he can find who worships the Creator of Heaven and Earth.

{Dan. 12:45} “Lucifer will establish his throne ‘in the middle of mankind’ and he will rule over human beings as Almighty God. His achievement will be short lived because the seven bowls will immediately begin. During the fifth bowl, the devil will be unmasked and the wicked will clearly see that the glorious being they have been worshiping is the devil himself. During the seventh bowl, the devil and his angels will be returned to the Abyss. His defeat will surely come, but not by human hands. {12:1} “When the devil finally sits down to rule the world from his throne, a sovereign Jesus (Michael), who rules from God’s throne in Heaven, will stand up. When Jesus stands up, 6,000 years of intercession for sinners will come to an end. On that day, Jesus will pronounce condemnation upon all who refused His offer of salvation and received the mark of the beast. The wicked will be doomed to receive the wrath of God (the seven bowls) which will be poured out without mercy. The pain and suffering inflicted on the wicked cannot be described, but everyone who has faith like Daniel, everyone whose name is found written in The Book of Life, will be delivered from the suffering which the seven bowls contain. When Jesus stands up, the persecution of the saints will cease and there will never be another Christian martyr, ever!

You will note in this interpretation the whole world is involved, as all must either except or deny the Gospel, then the end will come. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dan. 11:37