Christians Can Disagree

[Dr. Shane]

Let's look at a few hot issues and how Christians can disagree and still hold the same religious beliefs.

Abortion

Most Christians agree that most abortions are morally wrong.

Pro-life Christians believe the best way to reduce the number of abortions is to make abortion illegal in most cases.

Pro-choice Christians (not to be mistaken with pro-life politicians) believe abortion can be best reduced by keeping it legal, restricting and discouraging it.

Both believe abortion is wrong. They disagree on how to best reduce it.

Helping The Poor

Pro-Welfare Christians believe the government should use tax money to help the poor.

Pro-Charity Christians believe it is charity's responsibility to help the poor and favor government laws that help charities and encourage charitable giving.

Both want to help the poor. They just disagree on what is best.

Environment

The "green" Christian favors laws that would force industry to limit greenhouse gases.

The "business-minded" Christian believes if such laws are not applicable to all countries, the biggest offenders would simply relocate to countries without such laws.

Both want a clean environment but disagree on how that is best achieved.

[bevin]

Yes, usually both sides of a discussion do share the same goals and differ on either the facts or the analysis on how to reach them

If we think that a church service should be a comfortable place for people on both sides of such debates, how should the people doing the verbalizing (preaching, prayer, ..) present their view?

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

Given the discussion we are having in Townhall, I thought I might give this a bump.

[David Koot]

Indeed. I could not agree more, Shane. There are separate levels. There is individual morality, which may appropriately be governed by one's religious beliefs. Then, there is public morality, which must be areligious. Still again, there is geopolitical morality, which is a horse of another color. The nations of this world act according to realpolitik . Such they must do. That does not, however, mean that it is appropriate for the individual Christian to govern his or her life by the dictates of realpolitik or by Metternichian or Machiavellian principles.

[Dr. Shane]

As we have discussed before, the laws of a given society reflect the morality of that society. That is true for tax laws, traffic laws and criminal laws. Christians, for the most part, agree on what is moral and what is immoral. However we disagree on how to shape society morally. One extreme would violate religious liberty and force people to comply with their beliefs. The other extreme would not ban drugs, prostitution or child abuse and use only the gospel preached to persuade hearts to live for Christ.

[CaseyButler]

This is what Jesus meant when He said:

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

In our hearts we all know that if we had not rejected Jesus and the teachings of God through Him as Christians:

* There would be no abortion.

* There would be no poor.

* The environment would be fine.

The teachings of God's Government address all of these issues.

Instead we have followed the world.

Today fully 33% of the world claims "Christianity", taking the names of God and Jesus in vain for our own selfish desire for "salvation", to be "right", to be "better" than whoever we fear or consider "evil" or a "sinner".

With all these "Christians" running the most developed nations in the world, the world would indeed be perfect if those who claimed the name of Christ simply followed His teachings of putting other people first at all times, regardless of the cost to themselves.

Our hypocricy - the inherent evil mankind suffers as it centers on "self" - is exposed today.

It's time to start believing in God again, I'd guess, because our nakedness before the world is becoming clearer and clearer every day.

Organized "Religion" of any stripe is the corruptor of humankind, it exists solely to make our transition to the world's ways smooth, to reassure us we are saved no matter how badly we treat one another, to convince us of our own superiority as we feed its coffers and enlarge the ego and reputations of its leaders.

We need God here within all of us, from the least of us to the greatest of us.

Casey

[Dr. Shane]

I guess this needs another bump. Especially since we are heading into a big election season.

[Woody]

I guess this needs another bump. Especially since we are heading into a big election season.

What ??? Election? You mean "voting" ?

Mrs. White says ....

"Keep your voting to yourself. Do not feel it your duty to urge everyone to do as you do."--Letter 4, 1898. 2SM 337

Do we believe and follow all she says? OR do we pick what suits us?

[Dr. Shane]

I see no conflict in talking about politics within the church setting and what Ellen White has written. There is a difference between talking about politics and urging others to vote as we vote. I can talk to others about the kind of clothing I buy, the kind of cars I like, my favorite sport teams and many other subjects without urging them to be the same as me. Politics should be no different.

[there buster]

As someone has said, people tend to argue in the strongest shared language. In religious terms, that usually comes out to, "I'm right and you're lost." Some here like to put it in terms of "I'm right and you're from the devil." Both are examples of spiritual abuse.

I give a workshop on true nurture vs. manipulation, and people have been requesting a book.

But it's hard to think up examples. So I'm going to begin collecting them. Things like: speculating negatively on another's salvation or spiritual condiiton; commenting on their character; telling them God disapproves of them.

[Woody]

As someone has said, people tend to argue in the strongest shared language. In religious terms, that usually comes out to, "I'm right and you're lost." Some here like to put it in terms of "I'm right and you're from the devil." Both are examples of spiritual abuse.

I give a workshop on true nurture vs. manipulation, and people have been requesting a book.

But it's hard to think up examples. So I'm going to begin collecting them. Things like: speculating negatively on another's salvation or spiritual condiiton; commenting on their character; telling them God disapproves of them.

Thank you ICH ... I wish you would share more. This is a real problem in our church and here. I myself have been told a time or two that I am of the Devil and I am going to a particular hot spot. So, I can relate.

What I think would be good is a complete discussion of all the signs of Spiritual Abuse. Could you lead out in that?

The "I'm right and you are lost" is a far too common theme that I hear. Maybe some just don't realize how abusive it is.

[Neil D]

[quote name="Redwood . I myself have been told a time or two that I am of the Devil and I am going to a particular hot spot. So, I can relate.

[snip"]

The "I'm right and you are lost" is a far too common theme that I hear. Maybe some just don't realize how abusive it is.