Capacity to Love and the Holy Spirit

[cricket]

Following a train of thought brought about by other threads here and there on the Internet, a new question arises:

It was written by another that we (the Christian) has the capacity to choose conversion and that without such ability, we'd not have the capacity to love.

Concurrently, there is the notion that there is nothing we can do of ourselves (lest any man should boast) and that the Christian sins whenever he/she blasphemes the Holy Spirit.

Do we, then, have the capacity to love; is this capacity given to us by the Holy Spirit; or, is love only from the Holy Spirit (and not from ourselves)??

[Gerr]

What love are you referring to?

Unconverted people are not capable of the love described in 1 Cor 13. It is also a gift from above.

Gerry

[cricket]

Is there any kind of love that people are capable of (of themselves and not of the Holy Spirit); or any kind of goodness at all?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

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Gerry Cabalo said:

Unconverted people are not capable of the love described in 1 Cor 13.

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If a Christian had told me that when I was a pagan I would have never in a million years listened to anything else he had to say. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[Gerr]

Unfortunately, as rich & ecclectic the English language has been, it still makes no distinctions between love for ice cream, love as in having sex, and agape love. Unconverted people love chocolate ice cream, sex too, and even love those who love them, but to love the unloving, to love & forgive one's enemies? That requires a power beyond the unconverted heart.

Gerry

[Gerr]

Please see my reply to Cricket.

Gerry

[cricket]

Well, I really wasn't referring to the "love" of ice cream or sex. I meant the love that binds relationships.

Even so, aside from love, is there any good that can come from a human that is of the human self, and not something that comes from God?

[LifeHiscost]

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rudywoofs said:

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Gerry Cabalo said:

Unconverted people are not capable of the love described in 1 Cor 13.

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If a Christian had told me that when I was a pagan I would have never in a million years listened to anything else he had to say. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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Maybe, Pam, that's the reason Jesus made this statement to His disciples,

[:"red"] "`I have yet many things to say to you, but ye are not able to bear [them] now;" [/] John 16:12 YLT

Notice He didn't say. "Your salvation is in jeopardy because you don't know enough." In fact I'm even led to believe how much we know or how unintelligent our decisions, has little to do with our salvation.

This was spoken by Jesus while suffering the greatest abuse by those He created,

[:"red"] "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." [/] Luke 23:34 KJV

OTOH, it would seem a person would have to know some things for sure before he/she could make a choice of repentance. But again if our salvation was dependent on the work of the disciple in repentance, it would be salvation by works. Maybe that's why God has made it plain that repentance is also a gift of His to His children.

[:"red"] ""He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." [/] Acts 5:31 NASB

As to the unconverted person being unable to love as a Christian, dependant on Jesus for all, can you see yourself (or anyone else) able to comply with the univeral principles found in the love of God?

[:"red"] "Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.

It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].

It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.

Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].

Love never fails..." [/] 1 Cor 13:4-8 AMP

[:"red"] "....for apart from Me you can do nothing." [/]

John 15:5 NASB

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

Blessings!!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I know a lot of non-Christians who seem to have more love and concern for their fellow human beings than do professed Christians.

It seems like the Holy Spirit works and shines in non-Christians as well as in the converted. If a non-Christian demonstrates the qualities of love as described in I Cor 13 (and I have witnessed such love), who is to say that it was phony love?

Doesn't the Bible say that all good things are from God? []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/]

[LifeHiscost]

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Cricket said:

is there any good that can come from a human that is of the human self, and not something that comes from God?

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[:"red"] "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not." [/]

Romans 7:18 KJV parenthesis theirs LHC

[:"red"] "O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am! Who will release and deliver me from [the shackles of] this body of death?

O thank God! [He will!] through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One) our Lord!" [/] Rom 7:24,25 AMP Brackets theirs LHC

[:"red"] "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning." [/] James 1:17 NKJV

[:"red"] "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me." [/] Gal 2:20 ASV

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

[Gerr]

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rudywoofs said:

I know a lot of non-Christians who seem to have more love and concern for their fellow human beings than do professed Christians.

It seems like the Holy Spirit works and shines in non-Christians as well as in the converted. If a non-Christian demonstrates the qualities of love as described in I Cor 13 (and I have witnessed such love), who is to say that it was phony love?

Doesn't the Bible say that all good things are from God? []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/]

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[:"blue"]"For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts...." Rom 2:14,15 NKJ.

They may not have the label Christian, but they show the Spirit working in their hearts. [/]

Gerry

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

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"For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts...."Romans 2:14,15 NKJ.

They may not have the label Christian, but they show the Spirit working in their hearts.

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What a positively cool text! <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thanks!

[cricket]

When they show the work of the law written in their hearts, are they showing the work of their law, or the work of God's law? It does say that they are a law to themselves.

So, is this verse saying that the good things they have done are of the law within themselves, or are they things done of the law (of which they are unaware)?

[Gerr]

The principles of the 10c, i.e. love to God & love to one's fellowmen, can be written in the heart of a non-christian but who is responsive to the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

Gerry

[D. Allan]

Erich Fromm wrote a good book "The Art of Loving." He says that loving is an art and does not come about without some discipline, patience, and effort.

The narcisistic ego must be overcome. When we surrender to the Holy Spirit and walk with Him, that can happen?

If I don't have the intention to love, how can it happen.

[Nicodema]

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Grasshopper said:

Is there any kind of love that people are capable of (of themselves and not of the Holy Spirit); or any kind of goodness at all?

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There must be: the most real, consistent, tangibly 1 Corinthians 13 style love I have ever received from any human beings in my life at all has all, without exception, come from non-Christian people.

Make of that what you will, but it's the truth.