Church Authority, Involvement in Relationship of Members ?

[KayM]

A couple in the congregation have been in a secret relationship  some years. The lady has conceived and is in her 5/6 months.

How shall we address this issue now that they seek recognition of their relationship?

[GHansen]

1 hour ago, KayM said:

How shall we address this issue now that they seek recognition of their relationship?

Similar situation happened in a California church. A select group of concerned members went to the woman's house and told her she would be "~disfellowshipped for fornication and lechery." "No problem" she responded. She then mentioned other church members, including elders/deacons who were involved in adulterous relationships. She wondered if those people would also be disfellowshipped. Since these cases were known to some in the group, they decided to leave the woman in peace.

My remark is descriptive, not prescriptive.

[KayM]

This is exactly the sensitivity of such cases. If not addressed it has an effect on future cases.

But how do you find a balance of not being too harsh & setting a precedent? 

 

[GHansen]

10 hours ago, KayM said:

But how do you find a balance of not being too harsh & setting a precedent?

This would be an issue for SATCOM to decide. SATCOM is the Sexual Accountability and Transparency Committee. Ideally, it would be comprised of responsible individuals with good moral backgrounds. Size would depend on the congregation/s. This group would be tasked with counselling, holding members accountable, and making decisions in cases such as you have described. Unfortunately, they would be required to report criminal activity, such as child molestation, to local authorities. They would also be required to investigate suspected or alleged homosexual activity among members, if the local congregation disapproves.

We must also consider that marriage is a cultural issue. Among a group of immigrants who settled in California, the old custom was for a young man to simply "kidnap" the girl of his desire. She would then become his wife. This obviously did not play well in a modern Western society. There is a lot of explicit counsel in the OT regarding these matters. The death penalty was required in various cases, i.e., rape, homosexuality, bestiality.  Illegitimate children were also accursed. According to Numbers 5, children conceived in adulterous relationships would be aborted.

Unfortunate that in America, whoredom was turned into a profession of sorts. Women could actually be paid for illegitimate children while the fathers, if they were known, went to prison for other crimes; consequently, taxpayers were basically paying women to produce bastards which society would support. In other countries, illegitimate children are still looked upon with disdain. They can not become citizens, are deprived of access to public schools, government jobs, and other benefits. There is no paycheck at the end of the welfare line. There is no welfare. Single women with children face a difficult life. Many turn to prostitution.

My point here is, if I spell it out: Children also suffer, some very much, if they are illegitimate. This is why I recommend SATCOM to handle cases like this.

[Morwenna]

Well, I can tell you what happened to ME.

I was disfellowshipped. He (an elder) was disfellowshipped.

We each repented, each re-baptized (in an extreme, public humiliating fashion), each joined a different SDA church. 

In a church of approximately 400 members, I could have named several others who were involved in similar affairs;

• The pastor was visiting strip clubs in the early morning hours,
• The pastor's wife was having multiple affairs with an elder, two deacons, the school teacher's husband AND another young man (over 20 years old) in the church,
• A deaconess was having an affair with a Pathfinder assistant,
• A deacon (who sometimes preached from the pulpit) was having an affair with a woman outside the church, and was accused of sexual harassment of young girls at the Junior Academy.
• The head elder had affair with a head deaconess from a different church.

These are the ones I knew of in a 4-year time frame

None of those people were called out, none of them were forced into public humiliation and shame. The results? The pastor moved up in the ranks of the SDA church, he kept his wife under tighter control. The deaconess/Pathfinder assistant worked things out on their own--she's happier in her marriage, he married another woman and is happy in his marriage. The deacon who had a girlfriend outside the church quietly divorced his wife and married his girlfriend--nothing ever became of the Academy girl's accusations because none of them would come forth with evidence. The head elder divorced his wife and married the deaconess from the other church.

Of all those people who were able to work things out on their own and were not publicly humiliated--none of them left the church. 

That left a cold and bitter "feel" to me and my husband. Over time, we did leave the church (but not the faith) as we felt singled-out.

My opinion is: whatever you do, do it the same with everyone--there shouldn't be a "case-by-case" basis.

 

 

[GHansen]

1 hour ago, Morwenna said:

We each repented, each re-baptized (in an extreme, public humiliating fashion), each joined a different SDA church

Not sure that I understand all the details of your story, nor that I need to. It reminded me of a friend, a single mother with 2 children who got involved with a young fellow. Forgotten the details but apparently she confessed to her pastor what had happened. She was required to stand up in front of the congregation and confess what she had done. Nobody else knew about it; nevertheless, humiliation was the order of the day. Sometime later, the pastor who humiliated her was himself involved in adultery and lost his ministry. 

As for the rebaptism part, I'd like to know how you feel about that now? If you relived that experience, would you also get rebaptized?

[Morwenna]

1 hour ago, GHansen said:

As for the rebaptism part, I'd like to know how you feel about that now? If you relived that experience, would you also get rebaptized?

I don't think rebaptism is necessary.  In the circumstances I was in, I convinced myself (or, had the impression) that a public confession of sins and a display of renewed faith somehow would be of benefit and service to the congregation. As it were, I think it was just an afternoon of entertainment to (most of) those in attendance. Brothers and sisters who truly understood the transformation that took place in my heart already knew it happened because they were the ones who knelt with me through my journey in fervent prayer--they did not need a public demonstration. 

[Gregory Matthews]

As a former SDA congregational pastor, we did not disfellowship anyone who wanted to remain a member.   We did not think that other formal discipline was necessary.

As SDA clergy, I have been involved in multiple cases of SDA leaders becoming involved in misconduct.   I have seen the best happen when congregations simply went to the Lord and asked that God would do what was needed and God then did.

 

[GHansen]

8 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

we did not disfellowship anyone who wanted to remain a member. 

In Adventism, "disfellowshipping" doesn't mean much. Said individuals are still allowed at potlucks, Sabbath school, church, prayer meeting and the Lord's supper. They might be deprived of a voice in business meetings and church office but many people are without loss to themselves. Historically, when the Lord's Supper meant more to people than it does now, disfellowshipped people were banned from the Supper, tantamount to having the doors of heaven shut against them.

The ICOC, for example, in modern times disfellowshipped people. They were cut off from the fellowship of the church. The leaders considered that God could add more compliant individuals to the church body. 

[Gregory Matthews]

Unfortunately, SDA members do not generally understand "date rape."

A teen girl who is pregnant may have been date raped.  But, it is not likely that such will even be considered.

In any case, often the female will be disciplined and the male will be free to continue on.