The Sabbath in the New Covenant

September 6, 2006

Hello been away for a while. I have been recently studying how the Sabbath is to be treated under the new covenant.

Some pertinent questions for discussion.

In Jeremiah and subsequently in Hebrews we read about God writing his laws on our hearts. Does scripture in any way imply that these included the commandments?

The record of the Sabbath I grew up was the one in Exodus 20. Now although God spoke this command, and then subsequently wrote it and gave it to Moses, when Israel were worshipping the golden calf it was the Sabbath with the creation reminder that was broken. The one which remained in the ark of the covenant was the one written in Deut 5, which Moses wrote and had the exoduse from Egypt rather than creation as a reminder. How does that affect, if it all, the theology surrounding the seal of God and the Sabbath, if that set of commands was broken?

Thankyou.

September 7, 2006

I am the Sabbatarian by the way.

September 7, 2006

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David_McQueen said:

The one which remained in the ark of the covenant was the one written in Deut 5, which Moses wrote and had the exoduse from Egypt rather than creation as a reminder.

My dear McQueen,

Good to see you back. But, pray tell (as in Churchill's 'prayers') on what basis do you say the above?

Regards, Dave

September 8, 2006

It is intriguing that every action that our Lord took since the creation Sabbath was to remind his people that the seventh day was consecrated and to be kept holy, for all ages. The feast days, the sanctuary, the new moons, all were a constant reminder that this was a special day that our Creator wanted to spend with His committed ones.

This is carried on in the New Testament (covenant), from the gospels, to the early church age related in Acts, and from Jesus' special letter to His church in Revelation. the parallelism of the seven churches, seals and trumpets, all given at the time of the Christ's first room (Holy Place) ministry, as described by the sanctuary furnishings, (candlesticks and altar of incense) indicate a decrease of holiness and increase in compromise with truth. This is born out of Jesus' description of those who are true in the first church to those who are not 'Jews,' those who tolerated the Nicholaitans, Balaam, and are married to the paganism practices of Jezebel (Bel, which is Osiris).

Sun worship, Sunday, has replaced the Sabbath and true worship. In the Revelation seals we see the pure gospel diminished to putrid, and in the trumpets we see loathesome spirits patroling the earth instead of heavenly ones.

The worship of true verses the false, accented by Sabbath.

September 8, 2006

(Note: I should have said I am A sabbatarian not the sabbatarian! <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

David, The record spoken of an inscribed in Exodus 20, was smashed when Moses saw the Israelites worshipping the golden calf. Exodus 34 says that Moses then had a second set of tablets, however there is no detail of this.However in Deut 5 the commandments spoken of here have no sense of smashing around them.

This leaves us with a quandary. If the Exodus 20 set which was smashed is rewritten exactly, then what is the purpose of the difference in resaons for the Sabbath command in Deut 5? Is it just a typo? If the Deut 5 set is what was in the ark of the covenant then what gives with linking the commandments to the seal of God via creation of Exodus 20:8?

September 8, 2006

Just tacking on here.....your question intregued me, so I got my Bible out, and read the 2 sets of 10 Commandments. The first, in Exodus 20 is set in the scene of God directing the events and all of the Grandure of that event.

In Deut. the scene is that of Moses giving an oral recitation of the events of the whole of the Exodus...... and his repetetion of the 10 commandments is from memory. As such, the part of the creation was not included, IMO, because as in any oral recitation, something may be inadvertantly left out.

What I have found interesting is that in MANY places in Deut and other books is the admonition to keep the Sabbath holy. I am not able to quote chapter and verse at this time, but I can surely look them up and give you a few quotes if you wish.

I am not sure that the above answers your question, but this is my humble answer.

Morning Glory

September 9, 2006

"In Jeremiah and subsequently in Hebrews we read about God writing his laws on our hearts. Does scripture in any way imply that these included the commandments?"

Certainly Paul references the 10 commandments in his treatise on the Law in Romans 6-7. One of the dominant themes of the New Covenant is not the termination of the law but rather its being brought into much more intimate relation with us. According to Jeremiah (which you referenced) a distinguishing feature of the New Covenant was the writing of this Law upon the hearts of men.

Picture a playground where all the children are breaking all the rules. The Supervisor comes and surveys the carnality... Then he walks over to the sign that is displaying the rules. He reaches up and rips them down, smashes them and throws them away. Problem solved, right? Or was the problem in the hearts of the children?

Wouldn't it be better to instill in the children a love for the rules and the strength with which to comply?

September 10, 2006

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olger said:Wouldn't it be better to instill in the children a love for the rules and the strength with which to comply?

[:"blue"]olger, if I were to paraphrase your quote above based upon my understanding of Scripture, it would be as follows:[/]

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Wouldn't it be better to instill in the children a love for each other and the strength with which to comply?

[:"blue"]If this took place, there would be no need for rules[/]

September 10, 2006

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WayneV said:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

olger said:Wouldn't it be better to instill in the children a love for the rules and the strength with which to comply?

[:"blue"]olger, if I were to paraphrase your quote above based upon my understanding of Scripture, it would be as follows:[/]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Wouldn't it be better to instill in the children a love for each other and the strength with which to comply?

[:"blue"]If this took place, there would be no need for rules[/]

Wayne,

It would, indeed, be a better place with no need for rules. Unfortunately, we were born, live and shall probably die on a sinful planet.

My understanding of Heaven is that there will have no sin and we will not require man's rules for law and order. God's law will be in effect.

ITMT, we must do all we can to live, and train our children, in harmony with our fellow citizens.

September 10, 2006

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David_McQueen said:

David, The record spoken of an inscribed in Exodus 20, was smashed when Moses saw the Israelites worshipping the golden calf. Exodus 34 says that Moses then had a second set of tablets, however there is no detail of this.

What about verse 1:

"Cut two tables of stone like the first, and I will write upon the tables the words that were on the first tables, which you broke."

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However in Deut 5 the commandments spoken of here have no sense of smashing around them.

This leaves us with a quandary. If the Exodus 20 set which was smashed is rewritten exactly, then what is the purpose of the difference in resaons for the Sabbath command in Deut 5? Is it just a typo?

What someone else has pointd out on this thread makes sense to me: the Deut. account is an oral recitation. There are differences in wording in several of the commandments. As for the Sabbath commandment? I would guess that Moses was reminding them of what it was like in Egypt WITHOUT the Sabbath.

Dave

September 10, 2006

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David_McQueen said:

In Jeremiah and subsequently in Hebrews we read about God writing his laws on our hearts. Does scripture in any way imply that these included the commandments?

Paul's discussion in the Hebrews chapters, is of the Old Covenant vs. the New Covenant. Under the Old Covenant, the people pledged to obey the laws given on Mt. Sinai. Moses refers to 'the words of the covenant,' written on tables of stone. The Ten Commandments are what the people promised to keep, under the old covenant. Paul contrasts the New Covenant, in which God promises to write His laws on the heart. I don't see any way in which that could NOT refer to the same commandments.

Dave

September 10, 2006

Hi Wayne. I agree with what you wrote. Love for others is the cornerstone of God's government and pervades His Law.

I was also looking at the Law from the aspect of hating it in our fallen nature (Romans 8:7) and loving it with our converted nature (Psalm 119:77; 174).

If we love God, He will increase our love for others.

oG

September 10, 2006

Hey David,

Good to hear from you again ... say hello to your lovely wife <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Naomi

September 10, 2006

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David Koot said: The Ten Commandments are what the people promised to keep, under the old covenant. Paul contrasts the New Covenant, in which God promises to write His laws on the heart. I don't see any way in which that could NOT refer to the same commandments.

Dave

The law written on the heart is the principle seen in the last six commandments. Under the N.C. faith in God fufills the first four.

September 11, 2006

The quandary for me is this. If in Exodus 34 God starts by saying he was going to write a new set and then the chapter ends with Moses having written them. How does this compare to the record in Deut 5, because there Moses says that these are the commandments that God wrote on stone.

If we follow the Exodus account then the commandments in the ark of the covenant were written by Moses and had creation as the reason for the Sabbath, but if Deut then it was written by God then the reason is the exodus from Egypt? Surely we can't discount his oral rendition with something as fundamental as the commands because we wouldnt do it elsewhere? And if the Deut record is correct what about the SDA position that the seal of God is the Sabbath because of creation?

My final point I suppose is that why do we assume that because God said he would write his law on our hearts that it would be the ten commandments? Surely his law was written on the heart of his chosen people before Sinai, but scripture records no observance of the Sabbath before Sinai.

Searching....... <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/163860-EmoticonPrayer.gif" alt="" />

September 12, 2006

The beginning of the Fourth Commandment starts with "Remember...." If it, the Sabbath, weren't already a known, why would God have said to remember? Perhaps scripture doesn't mention Sabbath Keeping prior to Sinai because there was no need, in other words, it was such a given as to not NEED to be mentioned. Ah, but the Sabbath WAS "mentioned"...........during Creation Week!!

And, yes, I believe that the 10 Commandments ARE written on our hearts. Just think of all of the principals....they are universally good and good to live by. Some people are just not real good at listening to their hearts.....IMHO.

Where does it say that MOSES wrote out the 10 Commandments? I have not seen that.......Moses recited the 10 Com. in Deut. 5 as he was verbally giving an account of the entire Exodus to the Israelits just before they entered The Promised Land, and just prior to his death.

Just thinking out loud....

Morning Glory

September 12, 2006

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David_McQueen said:

The quandary for me is this. If in Exodus 34 God starts by saying he was going to write a new set and then the chapter ends with Moses having written them. How does this compare to the record in Deut 5, because there Moses says that these are the commandments that God wrote on stone.

Perhaps some confusion arises in regard to the pronoun 'he'? The NKJV captializes the "He." The NIV routinely does not capitalize pronouns when referring to God, thus can be a bit confusing. Also, note that in the verses immediately preceding, other actions are enjoined, which were not part of the TC. It would seem safer to stick with what God said earlier in the chapter, that He would write the same words as were on the first tables of stone. We do know that Moses wrote the civil and ceremonial laws, at some point in the process.

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Surely his law was written on the heart of his chosen people before Sinai, but scripture records no observance of the Sabbath before Sinai.

One helpful point can be an understanding of the word 'bless' as used in Gen. 2:3, 'barak1' This word has a prospective operation. It is an empowering for the future. The same word is used when God blessed them and said to be fruitful and multiply, etc. Jonathan Edwards points out the prospective effect of this blessing and sanctifying, in Sermon xiii (undated).

September 12, 2006

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The beginning of the Fourth Commandment starts with "Remember...." If it, the Sabbath, weren't already a known, why would God have said to remember?

Hmm...well one could argue that the introduction of Sabbath observance came when the manna fall.

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And, yes, I believe that the 10 Commandments ARE written on our hearts. Just think of all of the principals....they are universally good and good to live by. Some people are just not real good at listening to their hearts.....IMHO.

I suppose it is a technicality but I think it is much more than that. I think God's law includes the fruit of the spirit too. The essence of the beatitudes. Much more than ten rules. God's law in our hearts teaches me how to deal with anger, being charitable, hygiene, mutual respect much of which was embodied in all of THE LAW as whole rather than just the decalogue.

September 12, 2006

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David Koot said:

One helpful point can be an understanding of the word 'bless' as used in Gen. 2:3, 'barak1' This word has a prospective operation. It is an empowering for the future. The same word is used when God blessed them and said to be fruitful and multiply, etc. Jonathan Edwards points out the prospective effect of this blessing and sanctifying, in Sermon xiii (undated).

Hmmm....Good point

September 13, 2006

So moving on to the second point.

Observance of the sabbath under the provision of the ten commandments came with specific blessings and cursings for the nation of Israel. How do we recognise/observe the Sabbath under the new covenant?

September 13, 2006

Using Ezekiel 20:12 as a guide, it makes it possible to apply this pattern to the New Covenant. This text states that God gave us the Sabbath as a sign, and to understand that "I AM the Lord that made 'them holy.' When combined this concept with Hosea 4:6; my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge, it portrays a picture of those who stay in the Word, and contrasts it to those who stay in the world.

When we apply the Old Covenant principal applied by Exodus 20:8-11, which identifies the authority of God; "The Lord your God;" "made heavens and earth, the sea, and all that is in them;" and "blessed and hallowed;" the Sabbath day; to that in Revelation 10:5,6; 14:6-10; and 18:1-5; we find exaclty the same "seal & sign." The association of the Sabbath cannot be ignored in the light of God's authority, His creation, and His setting aside His day and His wishes.

Isn't it incredible that His seal binds the OT convenant and binds the "gospel" to the new, both of which circle around the Sabbath. The tie is undeniable, even though the word "Sabbath" does not appear.

Now, we need that seal in our forehead and in our hand. Thank you, Jesus!

September 13, 2006

Firstly, thanks Naomi for the greeting, forget to say so earlier. Madeline and the kids are good and blessed.

@Guy, the Ezekiel and Hosea text focus on Israel under the conditions of the old covenant. With their relevant blessings, curses and conditions attached. So am a bit unclear as to what you are saying? are you suggesting that the seal of God is the Sabbath?

September 13, 2006

Quote:

are you suggesting that the seal of God is the Sabbath?

The seal of the living God is an intriguing subject and study. According to Rev 7 (see 7:2), those that are sealed have "the seal of God in their foreheads." they are "the servants of our God," they are "wearing white robes," (which is the righteousness of Christ) and they are "holding palm branches in their hand." (they have the peace of Jesus in their hearts) Please notice that this text describes what is in their heads and hands. They are totally obedient to God. They are commandment keepers.

When one combines the seal of God and the sign of God in a concordance study, God's sign and seal does represent

Sabbath keeping, and thus, yes, the seal of God is a person who is the living gospel, and this includes Sabbath observance. (see Rev 14:7, which emulates Ex 20:11) Please notice Rev 14:12; "the saints who obey God's commandments and have, (or remain) the faith of Jesus. Not faith in Jesus, which they most certainly do, but the faith "of" Jesus.

In Ex 31:13, 17 the Sabbath is a "sign" between Israel and God forever. When we allow it, Rev 12:1ff answers a lot of these inquiries: this pure woman was clothed with the Sun --- her and her offspring, vs 17, "obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus." I can say that what was true with literal Israel was/is true with spiritual Israel.

The issue may not as much as the day as it is true worship. Only God's true people seek out and comply with the One who loved us so much that He died for us, and reject all the urges of this world. Worship is a way of life, a character, not a formality. So, yes David, the seal of God, the Sabbath, is ringing for joy in our souls, and "marks" one as being "owned" by God, and loved by the Son. May we soon thank Him personally.

September 17, 2006

Gus, I believe in the sanctity of the Sabbath still, just to make it clear. However if Sabbath keeping is so important to what constitutes the seal of God then how do you explain the following.

Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Cor 1:21, 22

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 1:13,14

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Eph 4:30

These all talk about the seal of God and links it to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Does it stand to reason that the same seal used at the end of time should correlate to these texts? If so then why does none of them mention or even imply the Sabbath?

(I won't labour this point to much, as I want to get back to how we observe Sabbath under the new covenant again )

September 22, 2006

Hmmmm...

How was pre-Cross Sabbath-keeping supposed to be different from post-Cross Sabbath-keeping? Was the Rest promised and commanded 1500 yrs ago any different than the Rest we are promised and commanded to enter into in Hebrews 4?

Looking forward to some answers...

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