Spirtualism/Spiritism

September 8, 2006

Is there a difference between the meanings of the words spiritism and spiritualism? In reading Selected Messages 2, chapter 13, Ellen White discusses the work of 'secret societies,' and mentions both words, but does not deliniate between the two. Webster states that spiritism is "the belief or practice of spiritualism," and spiritualism as one who communicates with the dead and recognizes that ultimate reality is a universal conconsciousness. Our SDA commentaries, The Source Book, Encyclopedia and Dictionary all have explanations which are similar.

In light of the discloser that world religions including Moslem, Buddhist, Hindu, Shintu, Tao, and Catholic all have leaders whole belong to inner circle secret societies, (including prominent protestant American and European mega-church leaders) which are traceable to the cult of Isis and Osiris, recognized by all cultures with by local god names, it is interesting that all point to the 'Vicar of Christ' as their spiritual leader. And not only religious leaders, but also the leaders of the world governments and mega-corporations bow down to the same memberships of these societies.

Since all of these entities have an agenda to decieve and control the populace, each under its own culture, it behooves us to have an awareness of the false, so that our lives may not vary from the righteous one Christ has laid our for us.

September 8, 2006

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In light of the discloser that world religions including Moslem, Buddhist, Hindu, Shintu, Tao, and Catholic all have leaders whole belong to inner circle secret societies, (including prominent protestant American and European mega-church leaders) which are traceable to the cult of Isis and Osiris, recognized by all cultures with by local god names, it is interesting that all point to the 'Vicar of Christ' as their spiritual leader. And not only religious leaders, but also the leaders of the world governments and mega-corporations bow down to the same memberships of these societies.

[]http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_eek.gif[/] Maybe I'm way out of the info loop, but I've never heard of anything like that.

September 8, 2006

I think definitions of both those words not only have changed somewhat since EGW's day, but that she herself did not utilize them properly even back then.

The notion of leaders in all world religions being members of some elite secret society is Conspiracy-Theory poppycock.

September 8, 2006

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Gus Foster said:In light of the discloser that world religions including Moslem, Buddhist, Hindu, Shintu, Tao, and Catholic all have leaders whole belong to inner circle secret societies, (including prominent protestant American and European mega-church leaders) which are traceable to the cult of Isis and Osiris, recognized by all cultures with by local god names, it is interesting that all point to the 'Vicar of Christ' as their spiritual leader. And not only religious leaders, but also the leaders of the world governments and mega-corporations bow down to the same memberships of these societies.

Since all of these entities have an agenda to decieve and control the populace, each under its own culture, it behooves us to have an awareness of the false, so that our lives may not vary from the righteous one Christ has laid our for us.

See, "About the Wealthy" thread under "Things We Don't Talk About". Quoted above is yet another example of what we discussed as reasons why educated people tend to steer clear of the church. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/monkey.gif" alt="" />

September 9, 2006

Hello Gus, my fellow Buckeye. I don't know if there is much difference between those words. I do know that Spiritualism exists in great form in our world and has a hand in exposing people to enemy issues in their lives.

As I get older, I am more and more convinced that that little lady (Ellen) knew what she was talking about. Through her, God saved us from so many extremes and death traps.

oG

September 9, 2006

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Gus Foster said:

In light of the discloser that world religions including Moslem, Buddhist, Hindu, Shintu, Tao, and Catholic all have leaders whole belong to inner circle secret societies, (including prominent protestant American and European mega-church leaders) which are traceable to the cult of Isis and Osiris, recognized by all cultures with by local god names, it is interesting that all point to the 'Vicar of Christ' as their spiritual leader. And not only religious leaders, but also the leaders of the world governments and mega-corporations bow down to the same memberships of these societies.

was ist los? How could that be possible? What disclosure? What is the reference? How credible is the reference?

Dave

September 9, 2006

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olger said:

As I get older, I am more and more convinced that that little lady (Ellen) knew what she was talking about. Through her, God saved us from so many extremes and death traps.

oG

Couldn't agree more. If it's not a part of the solution, it's a part of the problem.

Naomi

September 9, 2006

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David Koot said:

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Gus Foster said:

In light of the discloser that world religions including Moslem, Buddhist, Hindu, Shintu, Tao, and Catholic all have leaders whole belong to inner circle secret societies, (including prominent protestant American and European mega-church leaders) which are traceable to the cult of Isis and Osiris, recognized by all cultures with by local god names, it is interesting that all point to the 'Vicar of Christ' as their spiritual leader. And not only religious leaders, but also the leaders of the world governments and mega-corporations bow down to the same memberships of these societies.

was ist los? How could that be possible? What disclosure? What is the reference? How credible is the reference?

Dave

Go to it Dave!!!!! <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Now this I would like to see ... unfortunately I don't think Gus is the type to engage at that level. But maybe I'm wrong??? Hope so. For all my kvetchin' at you, I'd love to see you make lawyer mincemeat out of baseless conspiracy twaddle. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

September 9, 2006

Quote:

was ist los? How could that be possible? What disclosure? What is the reference? How credible is the reference?

Interesting, Dave, that you should use was ist los? There are zillions of references to confirm my statesments of "conspiracy-theroy poppycock." And while we have been waiting for the 'image to the beast' to form and raise its ugly head, it has been happening for many years. Jesus told us about deceptions, and yet we still go about our Laodicean lives just thankful for anothr day. Just go to the Crystal Cathederal's website and see how a high mason dimenishes Christ, fosters unity of all religions, and gives obescience to Rome.

One major source of pertinent info on this subject would be to introduce yourself to Professor Walter Veith of www.amazingdiscoveries.org (a German from So Africa) and view some of his 36 90 min DVD's on this subject. In his Revelation study, he will show you how the Rev churches, seals and trumpets show the progression of compromise and deceit which leads up the 4th church, seal and trumpet which describes the occult world controling the church of the middle ages, described in our Sabbath School quarterly as the 'little horn.'

Actually I went to www.americancassette.org, and in the left column selected SDA Youth Conference, '05, and purchased a four series tapes, ($3 each) 1st one entitled, "Two Beasts Become Friends," and the other three are on the subject matter of the masses being controlled by a small circle of leaders in their various occupations.

The truth of the mattter is that we are only one crisis away from Marshall law, and will be directed as to all phases of our lives. Please don't tell me that some of you don't know this?! We lost our Constitutional rights when Pres Carter signed over control to the UN Charter, which proceeds jurisdiction of any other document.

What is the issue---well--the issue is Jesus. Do we obey Him, or something else, anything else. And all of the world is trying to displace Him, to bring Him down to the level of humanity, and to bring humanity up to the level of diety. Sorry, I just assumed you all knew this?! And the catalist is the Sabbath---false worship, or to God. And because most believe in immortality of the soul, the members of these inner circles believe they will live for etrnity with Lucifer----please tell me you knew this!

One simple little point---two days stand out in history---Dec 25 is the birthday of every major god; just look it up--name a god (like Zeus) and look at his birthday----after Horus, or Osiris, (same guy) the birth of the occult world; and the other day is May 13---Fatima---where Mary is introduce as Luciferos--the female god, which was intended to replace the prophecy of Revelation. You do know that they have raised Mary above Jesus in diety; she was the born sinless one, and she is the gateway to heaven to Jesus----you do know this, right? Again--Lucerferos!!!!

We have reached the day when our only hope is Jesus, and He may be the only thing we have left to hand on to-----just like Jacob.

For other references just do a web search on myriads of subjects----Blavatsky----Albert Pike---Free Masons, Skull & Bones--Illuminati---Sun Worship----Isis & Osiris---there are tons more. Read our SDA Source book on these subjects, or our encylopedia or dictionary. Actually, do engage in this garbage subject pulls one away from Jesus, like the women crying for Tammuz in Ezekiel.

September 9, 2006

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In his Revelation study, he will show you how the Rev churches, seals and trumpets show the progression of compromise and deceit which leads up the 4th church, seal and trumpet which describes the occult world controlling the church of the middle ages, described in our Sabbath School quarterly as the 'little horn.'

That's right -- when Christians go corrupt ... blame the OCCULT!!!! After all there's no way it could simply be CHRISTIANS' obsession with power, control, authority, compulsion of others' consciences, oh no ... it could not be CHRISTIANS' bloodthirstiness oozing out of their theology into their political lives ... it could not be CHRISTIANS' warmongering spirits that they know not what manner they are of ... nooooo ... it absolutely could NOT be these very things that have been the CORE POX and PLAGUE in Christendom for 2,000 years now ... no, it MUST be some "OCCULT" force to blame!!! []http://forum.projectshapeshift.net/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/]

Would you like a coat of skins to go with those fig leaves? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> No wait, I've got it -- a lovely section of the Brooklyn Bridge!! It's all yours for a steal!!! Here, have a complimentary cup of Kool Aid on us!!!

September 9, 2006

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Nicodema said:

Go to it Dave!!!!! <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

N

Well, that made my day! I did something Nico approves of! Wilco shortly.

Dave

September 10, 2006

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Gus Foster said:

In light of the discloser [sic] that world religions including Moslem, Buddhist, Hindu, Shintu, Tao, and Catholic all have leaders whole [sic] belong to inner circle [sic] secret societies, (including prominent protestant American and European mega-church leaders) which are traceable to the cult of Isis and Osiris, recognized by all cultures with by [sic] local god names, it is interesting that all point to the 'Vicar of Christ' as their spiritual leader. And not only religious leaders, but also [sic] the leaders of the world governments and mega-corporations bow down to the same memberships [sic] of these societies.

Conspiracy theories seem to be a feature of American culture. They appear to thrive, in particular, within certain sectors of society--for example, the populist movement, distrust of government, etc.

Most assuredly, Adventists are not immune from such theories. Perhaps, more susceptible? Some years ago, a church elder pleaded with me to watch a video produced by a former Adventist minister (who has also written a pamphlet about Sunday laws). The elder told me that this video recorded evidence of apostasy within the Adventist church's leadership. Finally, I acceded to his request, and watched the thing. Talk about yellow journalism!! As I watched it, I was thinking, how could anyone be so credulous as to take it seriously?

I have also been exposed to so-called 'convincing archaeological discoveries' of the gold-plated wheels from Pharoah's chariots, lying just below the surface of the Red Sea, a new site for Mt. Sinai, complete with computer-generated maps, and, believe it or not, the location where the Ark of the Covenant was hidden, supposedly just beneath Calvary, and the discovery of a drop of blood that had found its way underground, which was analyzed, at the behest of this 'archaeologist,' and found to be different than normal human blood-IOW, a drop of Jesus' blood!

The individuals who excitedly told me about these thrilling discoveries, assured me that the proof could be seen on a couple of videos produced by the 'archaeologist.' Well, I looked at the videos, and was left, once again, wondering how anyone could be so credulous as to take them seriously.

As for the 'secret societies' to which the world's leaders supposedly belong, including the Illuminati, the Club of Rome, and others, within whose confines these leaders supposedly pledge homage to the Pope, and scheme to bring about a new world order, I have, in the past, concluded that such claims are merely another manifestation of the populist obsession with conspiracy theories.

However, Gus, you say that there is a 'disclosure.' Please identify this disclosure. Dr. Veith? I am familiar with his work. He is a scientist. I do not recall his making such claims. If I am mistaken, please provide me with a cite to review. Or, are you referring to some other source? If so, please provide a cite. I would be very interested to take a look at it.

However, hearsay evidence will not do. Let's see some hard facts. Such facts would necessarily include, for starters:

--The names of the secret societies;

--a verifiable written document which states the aims of the societies, such as you have described above;

--a verifiable membership roll, recording the names of the world leaders as members;

--reliable evidence that the various world leaders 'point to the vicar of Christ as their spiritual leader' and 'bow down to the memberships' of these secret societies.

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Since all of these entities have an agenda to decieve and control the populace, each under its own culture,

Sounds like a variation of Karl Marx. What is your source of information?

Dave

September 10, 2006

I am sorry that some can take this so lightly----and also be so blind. Without any reference to modern opinions and writings, we could easily depend on scripture alone. Babylon is described in the front part of Genesis; one might call it false religion, for which iot is, but it is the origin of the occult pagan system. Those characters implore direct Lucifer worship; and one might choose to call that false worship. The prophets really enforce this belief condition, and one usually thinks of Ezekiel 7-9.

In the New Testament Jude 4 warns about those that secretly do this and that. Revelation describes the Nicolaitans, and the marriage of Israel and the occult in the person of Jezebel (Baal worship), another worship of Satan. Jesus even says so; in the snygoge of Satan, in the deep things of Sastan, in the knowledge of the things of satan, etc etc ect.

In the Revelation seals we see the color changes of the gospel, being compromised and then being poluted, and then becoming false; all with the purpose of displacing Jesus.

Why don't we know that any worship not directed to Jesus is to the enemy?

To come out of Babylon is out of false religion, out of paganism, and out of the occult. Those in Thyatira knew they were worshipping Satan, and Jesus says so. Not so funny, huh?

September 10, 2006

The best reference on Veith would be his website:

www.amazingdiscoveries.org

where you can purchase his 36 DVDs on the occult, called Total Onslaught, his DVDs on Evolution/Creation, and his new set on health and diet.

September 10, 2006

One thing I was trying to refrain from is talking about specifics, and was hoping that inquesitors would look at the sources that I have mentioned.

It gives me no comfort to state that Jesse Jackson, Robert Schueller, Osama Bin-Ludin, Benny Hin, Kenny Copeland and the Alatolla of Iran are all 33 degree Masons.

What is the point? What does it prove that both Bush and Kerry are Skull and Bones, even though the oath and ceremony are identical to the Knights Templer oath?

I'm not going any deeper on the forum-----just look it up yourselves.

September 10, 2006

Gus,

I thought that that is common knowledge, and would not have to be spelled out. Along, with many other "interesting" connections .........

Glad you are using discretion.

Naomi

September 10, 2006

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Gus Foster said:

I am sorry that some can take this so lightly----and also be so blind.

Excuse me, Mr. Gus Foster, but last I checked, between you and myself I am the only one with a bona fide occult background. I am probably the only member of this forum to have ever not only been initiated into a "secret society" but also to have held office in one (as a chartered initiator myself, an ordained priestess, and a local bodymaster, that is, leader of a local chapter). I think I have a pretty good handle on what does and does not constitute an accurate estimation of the activity of such groups as well as their membership rosters -- and conversely what constitutes conspiracy-theory poppycock. You calling ME "blind" in this matter is not even tenable enough to be insulting; it is merely laughable.

You are free to believe any inane idiocy that strikes your fancy, but kindly refrain from calling others "blind" who happen to have more firsthand knowledge and experience than yourself concerning the facts of such things. And I don't take this "lightly" AT ALL. It is a very SERIOUS and GRIEVOUS thing you are doing here, this kind of utter tripe you are attempting to palm off as having any validity whatsoever, and moreover, the continual pattern of Christendom's inability to look itself in the eye and choice to, instead, find a convenient scapegoat for its own crimes in persons and establishments of other spiritual traditions.

~nicodema

September 11, 2006

Well Nico, I did not intentionally call you personally blind, but if you want to take it that way, let us listen to what Jesus says; Rev 3:17--"but you are wretched, pitiful, poor blind and naked." And Jesus gives me counsel--that does not make me angry or upset, but drives me to self examination.

Jesus is talking about me, because I belong to the Laodicean church. Now, there is no other at the end of time! I remember in Jesus time the religious people were called blind guides---we all need help.

It does appear too me that there is an inner circle that believes and teaches about this present day occult situation. Most are of what many call 'splinter groups.' That would consist of orgainizatins like Project Restore, Our Firm Foundation, The 1888 Message Group, Amazing Facts, Amazing Discoveries, The Last Generation, Many of our health clinic people, several groups that have large mailings and billboards, and other such groups. Most of these oppose the adoption of the Vatican 2 programs in the SDA churches. Others think that Robert Schueller's disciples like Rick Warren and Bill Hibels should influence our way of life and worship.

These groups are absolutely correct in their assessment of Protestant America combining with spiritism joining hands with Rome if the end of the age is near.

However, if time drags on, and there are several more generations yet to come, then we are all full of poppycock.

September 11, 2006

Dear Nicodema: There is no justifiable cause to attack this brother. Forgive her, Gus.

How did you get free from the snare of the enemy, Nicodema (what is your real name?)?

Gerry Wagoner

John 15:16

September 11, 2006

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Gus Foster said:

Well Nico, I did not intentionally call you personally blind, but if you want to take it that way, let us listen to what Jesus says; Rev 3:17--"but you are wretched, pitiful, poor blind and naked." And Jesus gives me counsel--that does not make me angry or upset, but drives me to self examination.

Do NOT insult my intelligence by throwing Jesus' words in scripture in my face as if His counsel on a completely unrelated matter had ANYTHING to do with you calling people "blind" because they will not subscribe to a load of conspiracy theory hooey. That kind of game playing goes nowhere with me, really fast.

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I remember in Jesus time the religious people were called blind guides---we all need help.

No, the religious leaders were called blind guides, and that they were, but that does not translate into a blanket label upon everyone. We may all need help in our own ways, but you are in no position to label someone else blind on a matter of which their firsthand experience and awareness surpasses your own. End of story.

As for the rest of it -- anyone who cannot see the difference between Christendom's internal squabbles and genuine occultism has no business holding court on the subject. Again, end of story. If you are listening to such peddlers of tripe as "our firm foundation" it's no wonder you are misinformed.

September 11, 2006

I have no vendetta, and very little knowledge on the subject of spiritism. I brought up the subject as a warning to those who do not read aright the time of the age and the impending disaster that befalls all of us. Only those steadfastly clinging to the Vine will endure.

It was not intentional that an awareness of the dominance of the occult world become concious. I started Agape Mission Library in 1986, and my son became director of getting Scripture into forbidden places on this earth, residing in Bangkok. While working in some of the 'closed door' areas, we became more and more that all opposition roads led to Rome. That followed the same path as occultism, which seated itself in Rome after the destruction of the library of Alexandria.

The reason I recommend Walter Veith for some info is because his father-in-law was a head 'channeler' in Africa, because he has the original manuscripts of Albert Pike (Morals and Dogma, 1871), and Blavatsky (The Secret Doctrine and Isis Unveiled), and he personally battled demon possession of his infant son when attempting to leave that environment. If you were to do a Google search on Pike and Blavatsky you would get much info, and a history of occultism back to Nimrod.

Now, what do I know about all this---let me be current. The Bilderberg organization met at the Brookstreet Hotel in Ottawa, Canada on June 8-11 this year. In attendance was the CEO's of all the world's most notable companies, including auto, oil, banking; the world's top religious leaders, and representatives of the top governments of the world. They have these meetings at different times in world settings. On their agenda are programs by the Coucil of Foreign Relations, the Trilaterial Commision, NAFTA, and other intriguing subject matters.

They requested a chapel setup immitating the 'chant rooms' at the United Nations, where channeling is a 24 hour occurrence by these leaders. For conspiracy guros, this group insisted on the invasion of Irag long before it happened. This is just one example of many---

What is important to me is that Jesus predicted that there would be one little horn power, that there would be one beast, hosting many others, and that he would be in cohoots with the world's business and economy. And so, there it is.

September 12, 2006

There is something else to point out on the topic of conspiracy theory. All of the reformers, without exception, especially from the 15th to the 19th centuries, pointed to Rome as the bearer of the anti-christ, and the man of sin.

That has long been replaced by the introduction of the form of prophecy interpretation of preterism and futurism, which most protestants have bought into. One wonders what anyone protests today. Especially in the light of adopting the policies laid down by vatican 2 and allowing entertainment replace worship, and increasing mankind while decreasing Jesus. Sounds like the opposite of what John the Baptiser was advocation.

In case we are not aware, every protestant church in Europe has asked forgiveness for their part in reforming the mother church. Americans generally get caught up in sports, recreation or visits to playlands to spend much time binding their relationship to Jesus. Obedience and character building ride in the rumble seat, and pleasing oneself is prime.

September 12, 2006

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Naomi said:

I thought that that is common knowledge,

It has circulation within certain groups, some of which place great stock in the ideas. However, I have yet to see credible evidence.

September 12, 2006

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Gus Foster said:

I On their agenda are programs by the Coucil of Foreign Relations, the Trilaterial Commision, NAFTA, and other intriguing subject matters.

Gus, old chap, I immensely enjoy the official organ of the Cou ncil of Foreign Relations, entitled "Foreign Affairs." i also enjoy comparing its perpspectives with those found in "Foreign Policy." The liberal internationalist establishment which the CFR used to represent, including Robert McCloy, Dean Acheson, Averell Harriman and others, most certainly did not pay homage to the pope!!! I am aware that dark purposes were assigned to the group, primarily by isolationist republicans and populists. Trilateral Commission? NAFTA???!!!! Give me a break!

September 12, 2006

Basically one of my faults is assuming that most people keep up with current events and relate them to Bible prophecy. Not that every incident needs a cubbyhole in time, but major events do shed light on 'when it happens you will know what it is, it means.'

The Prime Minister of Canada and the Presidents of Mexico and the United States signed a free trade agreement which now appears to be much more. As a result, NAFTA is building TTC-35, the High Priority Corridor, or NAFTA Super Highway, which in the US runs from Laredo, Tex. to Kansas City, and then to Duluth, Mn. It will be connected to Mexico City and cities in Canada. It is already under construction, and much of it in Texas is part of Rt 35.

It will become THE major port of entry for all imports, and the check point will be in Kansas City already under construction. Under this agreement, the Ameru dollars has already been printed and warehoused, and will be put into circulation during the next financial downtrend. What caught my attention is that this route will be taveled by Mexican trucks, with Mexican drivers without American licenses and their only check point will be in Kansas city.

Not really earth shaking, but another step in the unity movement well under way by the UN. Anyone can check the validy of this by simply going to the NAFTA website.

I think you are all correct in concentrating on Jesus and Scripture, but really, we don't have to have our heads buried to environmental realities. All this One World, New Age, One Religion, One Government is more than conjecture and delirious castles in the sky---I see it as being a fulfillment of Rev 17 & 18.

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