Melchizadek

[Joy]

Note, however, that if these suggestions are true, then Shem could not have been Melchisedec, since, his parents were known, as well has his genealogy. If Melchisedec was not divine, then I think Shem was the best candidate.

What evidence is there for Shem being Melchisedec? Aren't the above statments contradictory? Or is your point that the BCs interpretation is wrong because Shem is Melchisedec? But what is the basis for it and why is it even important that it be Shem? It feels like I'm missing something here on a theory to which you hold.

As to hedged bets in the BC I believe there is plenty of evidence throughout its commentaries that there is a belief in and acknowledgement of the supernatural. However, if there are possible explanations given for things besides the supernatural I don't see that as a lack of faith in the supernatural, but being open and honest to all real possibilities. Admitting we don't know something for certainty is not a lack of faith. I'm interested in knowing some specific examples for your concern.

Thanks.

Joy

[Mark Shipowick]

Jewish traditions are often wrong, but are worth considering. Shem is a good candidate in my view. He was likely respected as 'the voice of God' in the world, as EGW says, for many years after the flood and especially after the death of Noah. Genesis 11 says he lived for 502 years after the flood.

[Mark Shipowick]

If it was Shem, that has some prophetic implications. It suggests that the patriarchs were actually the first to possess the Promised Land or a part of it. And, Melchizadek, being King of Salem, it implies that the patriarch's seat of government was Zion, Jeru'Salem', from earliest times, and that the throne of David, which is given to Christ, possibly has an even longer history than most of us had thought. Not that the history of a geographic location is important of itself, but the symbolism of Zion and it's representation of the church down through time teaches the indivisible union of the people of God.

Quote:

12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, . . .

12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, . . .

12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect. Hebrews

[Mark Shipowick]

Regarding the location of the New Jerusalem, we know that when it descends from heaven as a bride adorned for her husband at the end of the millennium that it settles on the plain between the two halves of the Mount of Olives which is just to the east of present-day Jerusalem across the Kidron Valley. So, I have to modify my earlier statement that geographic location is unimportant; in the case of physical Jerusalem, old and new, geographic location seems to be important. The spiritual lesson that it illustrates is likely the reason for the continuity of location.

The New Jerusalem will have the tree of life, and since we know the tree of life was in the garden of Eden originally, and that Eden will be restored, it's reasonable to conclude that Eden restored will be closely connected to the New Jerusalem.

I think it was on this thread someone made a comment that there is no temple in the New Jerusalem. That is true, but scripture and Ellen White agree that there will be a temple a short distance from the Holy City, on Mt. Zion a little further to the west. See the quote below. So the priesthood of Christ and of the saints who reign with him is eternal according to scripture and is centred in this final structure on Zion.

Quote:

With Jesus at our head we all descended from the city down to this earth, on a great and mighty mountain, which could not bear Jesus up, and it parted asunder, and there was a mighty plain. Then we looked up and saw the great city, with twelve foundations, and twelve gates, three on each side, and an angel at each gate. We all cried out, "The city, the great city, it's coming, it's coming down from God out of heaven," and it came and settled on the place where we stood. Then we began to look at the glorious things outside of the city. There I saw most glorious houses, that had the appearance of silver, supported by four pillars set with pearls most glorious to behold. . . .

Then we entered a field full of all kinds of beasts--the lion, the lamb, the leopard, and the wolf, all together in perfect union. We passed through the midst of them, and they followed on peaceably after. Then we entered a wood, not like the dark woods we have here; no, no; but light, and all over glorious; the branches of the trees moved to and fro, and we all cried out, "We will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods." We passed through the woods, for we were on our way to Mount Zion. . . . {EW 18.1}

Mount Zion was just before us, and on the mount was a glorious temple, and about it were seven other mountains, on which grew roses and lilies. And I saw the little ones climb, or, if they chose, use their little wings and fly, to the top of the mountains and pluck the never-fading flowers. There were all kinds of trees around the temple to beautify the place: the box, the pine, the fir, the oil, the myrtle, the pomegranate, and the fig tree bowed down with the weight of its timely figs--these made the place all over glorious. And as we were about to enter the holy temple, Jesus raised His lovely voice and said, "Only the 144,000 enter this place," and we shouted, "Alleluia." {EW 18.2}

[Ron Lambert]

Joy, if you read back a little further through this thread, you will see what has been said about the Shem was Melchisadec theory. I never advocated it, merely pointed out that many (especially among the Jews) hold it. I am more inclined to think that Melchisadec was either the Holy Spirit appearing in visible, personal form, or else the pre-incarnate Son of God doing the same, since I can think of little else that would satisfy all the specifications in Hebrews 7:3. Other posters have suggested that some of those specifications need not be taken literally. I am willing to keep an open mind.