hell?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Is there such a thing now - in the present tense - as a literal biblical hell? Or does the *hell* of the Bible refer to the end time destruction of the wicked? Or am I misunderstanding the meaning of sheol? ... Or is it an *emotional* or *spiritual hell* that is being referred to in the Bible???

::confused look::

Just what is the hell or *sheol* that the Bible refers to??

Quote:

2Sa 22:6

The sorrows of Sheol surrounded me; The snares of death confronted me.

Job 11:8

They are higher than heaven--what can you do? Deeper than Sheol--what can you know?

Job 17:16

Will they go down to the gates of Sheol? Shall we have rest together in the dust?"

Job 26:6

Sheol is naked before Him, And Destruction has no covering.

Ps 16:10

For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.

Ps 18:5

The sorrows of Sheol surrounded me; The snares of death confronted me.

Ps 86:13

For great is Your mercy toward me, And You have delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol.

Ps 116:3

The pains of death surrounded me, And the pangs of Sheol laid hold of me; I found trouble and sorrow.

Pr 1:12

Let us swallow them alive like Sheol, And whole, like those who go down to the Pit;

Isa 5:14

Therefore Sheol has enlarged itself And opened its mouth beyond measure; Their glory and their multitude and their pomp, And he who is jubilant, shall descend into it.

Isa 14:11

Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.'

Isa 14:15

Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.

Isa 28:15

Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with death, And with Sheol we are in agreement. When the overflowing scourge passes through, It will not come to us, For we have made lies our refuge, And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves."

Isa 28:18

Your covenant with death will be annulled, And your agreement with Sheol will not stand; When the overflowing scourge passes through, Then you will be trampled down by it.

Isa 38:10

I said, "In the prime of my life I shall go to the gates of Sheol; I am deprived of the remainder of my years."

Isa 38:18

For Sheol cannot thank You, Death cannot praise You; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your truth.

Isa 57:9

You went to the king with ointment, And increased your perfumes; You sent your messengers far off, And even descended to Sheol.

Jon 2:2

And he said: "I cried out to the Lord because of my affliction, And He answered me. "Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, And You heard my voice.

[Gerr]

Sheol is simply the grave, the place of the dead. There is no place in OT Hebrew thought for a disembodied spirit that goes to heaven or hell or purgatory. That is why those in Sheol (grave) cannot praise God, that in Sheol there is no remembrance of God.

We also use "hell" metaphorically in which one can be experiencing hell right now, just like Job went through "hell".

But the hot hell that burns with "fervent heat" that will be so hot it will turn this planet into a molten mass to cleanse it, is reserved for the end times, in which even Satan & his angels who are spirits, will even be burned up.

Gerry

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Yes, I understand that there is no purgatory where souls are tortured (though my great grandmother paid thousands of dollars to a priest to get my gr. grandfather's big toe out of purgatory).

It just seems that there is more *to it* than just the grave. If death is sheol, did Jesus go there?

I'm getting confused. If there is a heaven (which I believe there is), then shouldn't there be a literal present hell as the antithesis? But not necessarily one that is *used* for the torture of souls?.. I don't know... Maybe not..

[Naomi]

Yes, I understand that there is no purgatory where souls are tortured (though my great grandmother paid thousands of dollars to a priest to get my gr. grandfather's big toe out of purgatory).

It just seems that there is more *to it* than just the grave. If death is sheol, did Jesus go there?

I'm getting confused. If there is a heaven (which I believe there is), then shouldn't there be a literal present hell as the antithesis? But not necessarily one that is *used* for the torture of souls?.. I don't know... Maybe not..

There is a Heaven that is where Jesus is at present. Upon his ascension into Heaven He sent the Holy Spirit to be with us. Satan was cast out of Heaven to this earth where he is to remain until Jesus returns in the 'Clouds of Glory'. After the millennium there will be a literal Hell.

When we die we are sleeping until Jesus returns. “The dead know not anything”

This is the simple answer. I hope it helps, a little.

Naomi

[Gail]

Good question, as always! :)

[Aliensanctuary]

Strong's Ref. # 7585

Sheol

Pronounced sheh-ole'

or Sh'ol {sheh-ole'}; from HSN7592; Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), Sheol, including its accessories and inmates:

KJV--grave, hell, pit.

...........................

Strong's Ref. # 86

Hades

Pronounced hah'-dace

from GSN0001 (as negative particle) and GSN1492; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:

KJV--grave, hell.

......................

So, does this make sense:

Sheol is the location of an imaginary world of the dead beneath our feet, the place where the body lies after death. Some, mainly in the past, thought there was some sort of afterlife down there, but in reality, it was more of a maggotfest and worm party for the creepy little creatures that really inhabit the underworld.

Hades is not imaginary, but is the place where our memories are stored for future access. This may or may not be on Earth.

[Gerr]

Quote:

It just seems that there is more *to it* than just the grave. If death is sheol,

Sheol is not death, it is the grave where the dead go.

Quote:

did Jesus go there?

Part of the apostle's creed is that Jesus "descended into hell (grave - same as Hades in Greek), but the good news is that Sheol/Hades could not hold or detain Him.

Quote:

I'm getting confused. If there is a heaven (which I believe there is), then shouldn't there be a literal present hell as the antithesis?

I believe that the hell that burns with "fervent heat" is just as real as the heaven that the believers will experience. And just as heaven is yet future for the believer, burning hell is also still future for the unbeliever.

Quote:

<>?

But not necessarily one that is *used* for the torture of souls?.. I don't know... Maybe not..

Mal 4:1 & 3 says, "For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burnthem up, says the LORD of hosts, that will leave them neither root nor branch.....For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet." NKJ

There is no eternal torture here. They will be totally and completely burned up, destroyed. "The wages of sin is death", Rom 6:23, not eternal torture. God's gift is eternal life. Rejecting that gift results in eternal death.

Gerry

[Robert]

Jude 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Naomi said:

Quote:

There is a Heaven that is where Jesus is at present. Upon his ascension into Heaven He sent the Holy Spirit to be with us. Satan was cast out of Heaven to this earth where he is to remain until Jesus returns in the 'Clouds of Glory'. After the millennium there will be a literal Hell.

Yes...this was a bit more along the lines I was wondering. So there is NOT a literal hell yet...no empty place where the fires are being stoked for readiness? It is a future *place*?

Aliensanctuary said:

Quote:

Hades is not imaginary, but is the place where our memories are stored for future access.

That's an interesting thought...where DO our memories go?

[David Koot]

Okay, "hell" . . . what is it?

The Hebrew word translated 'hell' in the OT is 'sheol,' which is the place of the dead. Kittel's theological dictionary has an excellent article on this question. 'Sheol' is quite simply the grave. As Kittel points out, the Bible clearly teaches that there is no consciousness after death. At the resurrection, God quite literally re-creates a person the way he or she was before death, with a glorified body for the redeemed.

In the NT, several words are translated 'hell' in the KJV. One is 'hades,' which, again, refers to the place of the dead, that is, the grave. However, there is no little confusion about this. Kittel does a masterful job of tracing the cause of the confusion. Hellenistic thought and philosophy spread throughout the ancient world, thanks to the exploits of Alexander the Great ("Pan-Hellenism"). Since about 500 B.C., the Greek concept of the separate, conscious soul which survives bodily death, had been well-developed. This belief became widespread in the ancient world, and crept into the Christian church in about the 3rd c. A.D. Before that time, the early church believed and taught the OT doctrine of unconscious state in death. Athenagoras was the first Christian leader to teach immortality of the soul. Tertullian developed the concept of hell as a fire which recreates as it consumes the person, thus resulting in eternal torment. This became Christian doctrine for centuries. Thomas Aquinas synthesized classical philosophy and Catholic teaching, in his 'Summa Theologica' during the Middle Ages, and the Greek doctrine of immortality of the soul and Hades as a place in the 'underworld' where the souls went after death, was immortalized in Church teaching.

Today, sources such as Strong's Bible dictionary and off-the-shelf study aids, teach this mixture of Greek philosophy and Christian belief. Surprisingly, Kittel does not, but does a bang-up job of presenting the topic in an honest way. Without access to Kittel, no little confusion may result from a perusal of study sources such as Strong's.

What the Bible teaches is very simple:

1) There is no consciousness after death, no dichotomy or antithesis of body and soul. A person stays in the grave, dead, until brought back to life by God at the resurrection.

2) There is no 'hellfire' burning now, nor being prepared or stoked now. Hellfire occurs as part of the executive judgment, at the end of the thousand years, when fire rains down from heaven to consume the wicked. The earth itself become a lake of fire, in which all vestiges of sin and sinners are totally burned up, leaving only ashes. This lake of fire is depicted by the Greek word 'Gehennah,' also translated 'hell' in the NT. Afterwards, God creates a new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness.

Dave

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Interesting how Greek thought permeated the Christian church from very early on.

Thanks Dave!

[LifeHiscost]

But the hot hell that burns with "fervent heat" that will be so hot it will turn this planet into a molten mass to cleanse it, is reserved for the end times, in which even Satan & his angels who are spirits, will even be burned up.

Gerry

"You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing," says the LORD of hosts." Malachi 4:3 NASB

[LifeHiscost]

A person stays in the grave, dead, until brought back to life by God at the resurrection.

Perhaps one point might be made to clarify that at death we are no longer a person in existence, certainly not in the grave.

"Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. " Gen 2:7 NASB

Only a living being could be a person (have a personality). Hence if you're dead, having no thought or breath of life, you could not be a person.

[Robert]

At the resurrection, God quite literally re-creates a person the way he or she was before death, with a glorified body for the redeemed.

Incorrect!

Matt 22:29 “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures, or the power of God. 30 “For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

1 Cor 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed....

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote:

At the resurrection, God quite literally re-creates a person the way he or she was before death, with a glorified body for the redeemed.

Glorify---2. to light up brilliantly

Glory---5. a ring or spot of light

[Robert]

Quote:

At the resurrection, God quite literally re-creates a person the way he or she was before death, with a glorified body for the redeemed.

Glorify---2. to light up brilliantly

Glory---5. a ring or spot of light

Angels are not of flesh and blood. They are very different. First they are sexless. Two, they can walk through walls; appear and disappear. They can thought transport and many other things that we humans cannot do.

So we will not be human. Yes, we will still recognize each other, but is that speaking visually only? I'm not sure. The fact is the "old me" never comes up. That life died forever. What I get resurrection morning comes from "in Christ". It is the same glorified humanity He took to heaven. My new life is in Him.

[Ted Oplinger]

Quote:

Sheol is the location of an imaginary world of the dead beneath our feet

Ahh, therein lays the key point: Imaingary world

But the imaginations of mankind have power ONLY among the living...

Psalm 146:4 "His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish."

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6: "For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun."

Whether or not there is a place where the dead are "stored" until resurrection is a moot point to the dead...the dead are not consciously aware of anything while they are dead.

The concept of a literal "hell" has meaning only for the living...and the concept of hell has been; indeed, continues to be used, as an instrument of fear to force obedience to certain allegiances in the name of Christ.

[Robert]

The concept of a literal "hell" has meaning only for the living...and the concept of hell has been; indeed, continues to be used, as an instrument of fear to force obedience to certain allegiances in the name of Christ.

Right!