Astonishing Discovery in a National Park

[CyberGuy]

Astonishing Discovery in a National Park

An intricate and massive cave network that stretches more than 1,000 feet into a mountain and contains sizeable passages and rooms, one of which is more than 200 feet wide and 50 feet tall, has been discovered by four amateur cave explorers in the Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks in central California, report The San Francisco Chronicle and MSNBC. The cave's entrance was the size of a softball.

Formed some 1 million years ago, the cave rooms contain the skeletons of many ancient animals and stunning rock formations, including millions of crystal along walls that shimmer like diamonds. "Translucent mineral 'curtains' hang from the ceiling. Flowstones that resemble spilled paint dot the floor. A lake that might be 20 feet deep fills one of the cave's five known rooms, and passages leading into darkness suggest there is still much more to see," writes Chuck Squatriglia in the Chronicle.

Finding a cave in a national park is not unusual. For example, 17 have been found in the Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks in the past three years. What is unusual about this particular discovery is it grandeur. Named Ursa Minor by one of the explorers who found it, the cave is being hailed by geologists as one of the most significant finds in a generation. "There are things in this cave that could really open windows into our knowledge of geologic history and the formation of caves throughout the West," Joel Despain, the parks' cave manager, told the Chronicle. "We're just beginning to understand the scientific ramifications of this."

Because it is such an extraordinary find, the National Park Service will not reveal its location and indicate it will probably never be opened to the public. So far, only about a dozen people have been permitted inside to see it.

[Naomi]

That's really interesting. I am always inspired by the courage of those brave people who discover caves .. and things out of the ordinary.

[Dr. Shane]

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The cave's entrance was the size of a softball.

Must have been a very skinny person that slipped in.

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the National Park Service will not reveal its location and indicate it will probably never be opened to the public.

Our tax dollars at work. We own it but probably will never be permitted to see it.

[Gerr]

Let's see. It's in a Park. California is billions in the red. Where's that good old American intreprenorial ingenuity? They should develop it like Carlsbad. It would be a win-win proposition. People would have the opportunity to see it & not just for a privileged few, and the state would profit.

Gerry

[Ron Lambert]

It sounds like it would really be great to see this cave system. If they are not going to allow free access to the public, I hope they will publish a lot of pictures--maybe produce a video tour available on DVD. A special panoramic video would be perfect for Omnimax theatres.

If the entrance was only the size of a softball, then I guess they had to dig it out a little to get in. Or did they just send in mobile cameras?

[bevin]

I am sure you will be allowed to see pictures of it.

But every person who goes in it helps destroy it.

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

I have been inside some well preserved caves.

[Naomi]

Seeing the pictures would be just fine with me.

Naomi

[Amelia]

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The cave's entrance was the size of a softball.

So how did this group of amateurs decide to explore a hole that small? I've spelunked caves with small entrances but not that small and they were already established and mapped caves. There must be info we are not privy to like old miners, trappers, hunters stories or something. Otherwise why go poking around in a tiny hole?

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Because it is such an extraordinary find, the National Park Service will not reveal its location and indicate it will probably never be opened to the public. So far, only about a dozen people have been permitted inside to see it

I always waffle on things like this. On the one hand I would really want to see (not nesscessarily in person but really good pics would be nice) all there is to see. Kind of like the inside of pyramids. Every joe blow doesnt get to go in there but the scientists are really good at getting cameras in where we cannot go. And on the other hand there are things that should not be open to vandalism, graffiti or other kinds of distruction. There are caves in Spain that are closed to the public due to the vast amount of prehistoric painting they want to save. Giant steel gates were erected over the opening. Here in Oregon there is an area called the balancing rocks. American Field Guide - Oregons Balancing Rocks Once vandalised, the park no longer gives out directions for finding them. I'm ok with that.

[Gerr]

If the tours of the cave is guided by a park ranger, and if it is explicitly pointed out that stiff fines are imposed on acts of vandalism, I don't believe we should have to worry about that. I have not heard of acts of vandalism in the Carlsbad Caverns.

Gerry

[Ron Lambert]

I remember once being conducted on a short tour in a small cave system in the state of Washington, and the tour guide warned us sternly not to touch any of the crystalline formations--he said skin oil discolors the calcium carbonate. So it is not just intentional vandalism you would have to worry about, it is the inadvertant damage caused by ignorance--just touching certain formations.

[Dr. Shane]

What if Clint Eastwood gave the tours with a .44 strapped to his side?

[Fran]

Shane;

You are priceless! It is almost as good as the Billboard suggestion. I am still laughing over that one. Thanks for the laugh!

[bevin]

Human beings (a) stir up the air, and ( emit large amounts of moisture

These things, all by themselves, can damage some objects - without any harm being intended

/Bevin

[Nicodema]

Wow, I would LOVE to have the privilege of exploring something like this. What a discovery!!! I love spelunking. Haven't done it for awhile, but have always loved it. Well ... except when I have to leap across gorges several feet wide and the drop to the bottom is deadly .... I'm not too crazy about that part ... LOL

[Dr. Shane]

There are a lot of caves out there that have guided tours and are doing just fine. God is going to come back and destroy everything anyway. We don't need to be worshipping the creation which the Creator is just going to destroy. We should be admiring it and growing in our appreciation for its Maker.

[Nicodema]

Who said anything about "worshipping" it? It's a cave. Caves are awesome. They have lots of really cool features, and it sounds like this one is packed with wonderful things to see. I don't see how expressing appreciation for this wonder of nature and an interest in seeing it equates to "worship". *puzzled look*

[Dr. Shane]

That is what I think we should all be free to do: express wonder and interest in this marvel of nature. Those that worship creation (not anyone here, I hope) wish to seal up the cave as if it were a sacred home of the gods. It is this same kind of attitude that doesn't want to cut down a 400 year old tree simply because the tree is 400 years old.

I am big on conservation and national parks. But if the public doesn't have access to appreciate nature, what good is it?

[Nicodema]

I think the 400 year old tree thing is a bit different, unless they cordon them off with steel and barbed wire somehow? LOL.

I do think the concern about sealing the cave is because there may be important scientific and archaeological finds to be had there, or else geological, and they probably want a chance for that work to be done first before the zombified masses start turning it into yet another tourist attraction. I would not be adverse to them sealing it off so that scientific research could be done first. I also think they should do something later to prevent it from becoming a banal tourist attraction. The splendour of such a place is ruined by kitschy shops, squalling brats, and McDonalds on the corner ... y'know?

[bevin]

Christian's have been claiming that God is going to return any day now for 2000 years.

We really do need to try to preserve the world in reasonable shape for future generations - including not destroying all the marvellous sites that we find.

/Bevin

[olger]

"Formed some 1 million years ago"

Oh I'm sure... .

[Nicodema]

Christian's have been claiming that God is going to return any day now for 2000 years.

We really do need to try to preserve the world in reasonable shape for future generations - including not destroying all the marvellous sites that we find.

Very true.

Amazing how easy it is for some to lose sight of what the term "stewardship of the earth" means...

[Ron Lambert]

I have been told that there are "living" caves inwhich the formations are still forming, and "dead" caves where everything is set in stone, so to speak. Living caves might be able to repair themselves from minor damage. Dead caves would be more vulnerable to permanent marring.

It is not a matter of treating the caves as objects of worship; rather it is a matter of being considerate of others who come after you, so that they can see the same natural, unspoiled scenery that you were able to see and enjoy.

[Neil D]

In replying to no one in pecticular, I am amazed at the insensitivity of some people toward nature.

Some of these people want to go see some sensitive site, like a cave, not realizing that just to touch the limestones take YEARS, sometimes decades, to mend just the touch. And we haven't even talked about breaking stalagtites which might take hundreds of years or be irreplacable.

People go into wilderness areas with the flipant attitude that it belongs to them [after all, THEY pay taxes, don't they?], all the while throwing thier trash, or shooting thier popcans for targets, and not even realizing that by just leaving footprints in certain ecosensitive areas can create major damage.

There are reasons that Parks, that have trails, are National or state parks. I have been to Korea where they also hike into countryside. But thier countryside is litered with waxpaper that housed an icecream cones, or broken bottles that line the bottom of creeks/rivers or off the trail places where they are littered with toliet paper. There are reasons that pristine areas are so pretty...they are not littered by your fellow americans with aged litter, or decomposing resistant materials.

As for that stupid remark about "worshiping nature"...What's the difference between worshiping nature and being a responsible steward to future generations who also deserve to see the ORIGIONAL site as we saw it? I would like to really know how some of you can merge these two concepts into one and the same idea.

What is wrong with letting NATURE take care of herself in preserving the natural beauty that we so admire? Why can't we take a hands off attitude instead of being accused, rather flippantly IMHO, of "worshiping nature"?

Upon reflecting upon what ticks me off about the "worshiping nature" comment, is that I see no one bowing down to a tree, or rock saying 'you are my god', because that is what I define worshiping nature as....No one does that...., and to imply that being a good steward is the same as worshiping nature, is to be derelict in good Christian principles...as in seeing things rightly and not imagine things or twisting definitions to promote an agenda that is hurtful against the common good of mankind. Such twisting and manipulating of ideas is tantamount to being irresponsible...Just my brutish opinion...

[Dr. Shane]

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by just leaving footprints in certain ecosensitive areas can create major damage.

What kind of damage is Christ going to do when He returns? I am 100% for preserving our environment BUT we need to have a purpose for preserving it. That purpose should be so that future generations can enjoy it. At one time, many salmon could be seen swimming upstream in the Columbia River. Now because of over-fishing and polution, it is a treasured site to see.

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I have been to Korea where they also hike into countryside. But thier countryside is litered with waxpaper that housed an icecream cones...

Difference in culture there. I have been told by those having served in the Army in Germany, that their forests are incredibally clean compared to ours. And ours are incredibally clean compared to Korea's.

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As for that stupid remark about "worshiping nature"...What's the difference between worshiping nature and being a responsible steward to future generations who also deserve to see the ORIGIONAL site as we saw it?

One view places value upon nature for its being nature. They equate all life as being equal. A bug under a rock is of equal value as a man, redeemed by Christ.

The only reason that nature has any value at all is because it was created by God. It is the hand of the Creator that gives the creation value. Man is to take care of the creation because he was created to do so. "the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it" (Gen. 2:15). That doesn't mean he is to worship it by considering it as being of equal value as himself. Man is of greater value than nature. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth" (Gen. 1:26). "Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows." (Matt. 10:31)

In every age, those true to the church needed to be able to recognize the false religion that existed around them. Those that worship nature today are not sacrificing their children to the sun as in the ancient past. However they are placing what they judge to be the greater interest of nature above what is the greater interest of humanity. They are very open about their belief that the spotted owl or horned toad has as much inate value as a human life. In fact, many of these secular environmentalists see no problem with terminating a human life while in its mother's womb, but consider it a grave sin to build a system of dykes to protect a city from flooding.