Examining God’s character – His attributes....

[LifeHiscost]

When God chooses to take a life, He has all the information necessary to justify His choice.

[:"red"] "...for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." [/] 1 Samuel 16:7 NASB

[:"red"] "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure....

I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it." [/] Isaiah 46:9-11

[:"red"] " And the LORD said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go. Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the LORD: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.” " [/] Ex 4:21-24

NKJV

[:"red"] "Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?" [/] Romans 9:21 ASV

[:"red"] ""Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker--An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth!Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?'Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands'?" [/]

Isaiah 45:9 NASB

[:"red"] "You turn things around!Shall the potter be considered as equal with the clay,That what is made would say to its maker, "He did not make me";Or what is formed say to him who formed it, "He has no understanding"?" [/] Isaiah 29:16 NASB

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

[Robert]

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LifeHiscost said: When God chooses to take a life, He has all the information necessary to justify His choice.

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So He justifies breaking His own law? I think you got my Jesus mixed up with someone else!

[LifeHiscost]

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Robert said:

So He justifies breaking His own law? I think you got my Jesus mixed up with someone else!

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[:"red"] "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. " [/] John 15:10 KJV

If one sees killing as different than murder, there remains no mystery in that which God declares about Himself.

Kill: to deprive of life, to put an end to. To kill merely states the fact of death caused by an agency in any manner.

Murder: the crime of unlawfully killing a person, especially with malice aforethought; specifically implies stealth and motive and premeditation and therefore full moral responsibility.

WEBSTER'S NINTH NEW COLLEGIATE DICTIONARY

Not only is God able as Creator of the universe, to determine what is lawful and what is unlawful, since He is Love, He never takes life with malice against His enemy.

[:"red"] "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked? saith the Lord Jehovah; and not rather that he should return from his way, and live?" [/]

Ezekiel 18:23 ASV

[:"red"] "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord Jehovah, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" [/] Ezekiel 33:11 ASV

[:"red"] "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." [/] Hebrews 13:8 NASB

[:"red"] "For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

and did all eat the same spiritual food;

and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ" [/] 1 Corinthians 10:1-5 ASV

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

[Robert]

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LifeHiscost said:

Kill: to deprive of life, to put an end to. To kill merely states the fact of death caused by an agency in any manner.

Murder: the crime of unlawfully killing a person, especially with malice aforethought; specifically implies stealth and motive and premeditation and therefore full moral responsibility.

WEBSTER'S NINTH NEW COLLEGIATE DICTIONARY

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Your source is human...it is not divine. You are adding to the Bible using worldly interpretations.

[Robert]

Let's look at some contradictions that God has left for you in His word:

Matt 5:21 “You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not commit murder’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ 22 “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court...."

"...at Horeb you provoked the Lord to wrath, and the Lord was so angry with you that He would have destroyed you." Deuteronomy 9:8

[:"blue"]Love [and God is love] is patient, love is kind, and is not jealous.... 1 Cor 13:5

"I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God...." Ex 20:5[/]

[:"green"] "For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient [how so?] spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another...." Titus 3:2

"Jacob have I [the Lord] loved, but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:13

[Robert]

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Robert said:

• Matt 5:21 “You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not commit murder’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ 22 “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court...."

  "...at Horeb you provoked the Lord to wrath, and the Lord was so angry with you that He would have destroyed you." Deuteronomy 9:8

  [:"blue"]Love [and God is love] is patient, love is kind, and is not jealous.... 1 Cor 13:5

  "I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God...." Ex 20:5[/]

  [:"green"] "For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient [how so?] spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another...." Titus 3:2

  "Jacob have I [the Lord] loved, but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:13

[/]

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• "And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation."

What was the condition of those two goats in Leviticus?

What were the qualifications of the two goats? They had to be without blemish. One of them or both of them? Both of them had to be without blemish, so that you could interchange the goats. You cast lots and the lot falls on either this goat or the other. So we must be clear that the second goat doesn’t represent Satan as we know him but Lucifer as God created him, because both Christ and Lucifer were spotless.

Look now at the second goat for a moment. What is the name of the second goat in your Bible? In the KJV it is “Scapegoat.” In the original it is “Azazel,” and some of the modern translations will have that word. What does the word “Azazel” mean? In the Hebrew, words have meanings. What does the word mean? We do not know today because the Hebrew language changed in the ninth century and we do not know exactly what it means.

But here is what we have from the best of the scholars. According to the Hebrew scholars (these are not Christian scholars, but Jewish scholars), “Azazel” is the name of the devil. So the Hebrew scholars back us up. We do have not the Hebrew manuscript but we do have the Syriac manuscript, which is one of the oldest manuscripts. The Syriac manuscript for “Azazel” has this phrase “the angel that revolted.” Very interesting and a very reliable manuscript. Most Christian scholars interpret Azazel as the Scapegoat. What does scapegoat mean? If you looked it up in a dictionary, what does it mean? We use it in our English language.

Someone has to take the blame. That is the issue! When you deal with sin in a legal sense, as a transgression of the law, there are three things involved. First there is guilt. Then there is punishment. Then there is responsibility.

The thing is this: who is responsible for sin? One of the clear teachings of the Bible is the sovereignty of God. That means that nothing happens in the universe without the permission of God. That’s what it means. God is sovereign. Did God know that Lucifer would sin? Yes. Then why did He create him? That’s one of the big questions.

If God is sovereign, then He has allowed Satan to come in. He has allowed Satan to tempt Adam and Eve. This has created a problem and this was not solved on the cross. Let me give you an illustration. [:"blue"]When Adam sinned and God came to visit him, what did he say to God when God asked why did you sin? He said, “This woman, whom You gave....” So upon whom was he putting the blame? On God. Today you will hear it all the time: “If God is love why is He allowing all the sicknesses and problems? If God is love, why is He allowing a drought in America?” These are the kind of questions that have to be solved if the great controversy is to come to an end.

So what does God do? God actually assumes the blame! He assumes the blame until the Day of Atonement. There is a text which I want you to look for, it’s in the Old Testament, where God is speaking. He says, “I have created evil.” You will find many texts in the Bible where God assumes the blame for many things. For instance God said, “I have hardened Pharaoh’s heart.” These texts cause a lot of problems to many Christians. You wonder why those texts are there. Well, it’s because God assumes the blame until the Day of Atonement. Because He’s sovereign and He allows things to happen, He has to assume the blame. Does He assume the blame for a good reason? Yes. But we will not know it until the judgment. [/] [JS]

[LifeHiscost]

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Robert said:

Let's look at some contradictions that God has left

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Contradictions in God's Word are only in the minds of those who misunderstand Him, which misunderstanding is easy to become mired in when choosing to remove whatever Scripture is difficult to comprehend.

[:"red"] " Know therefore that God exacteth of thee less than thine iniquity deserveth.

Canst thou by searching find out God? Canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?

It is high as heaven; what canst thou do? Deeper than Sheol; what canst thou know?" [/] Job 11:6-8 ASV

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

[LifeHiscost]

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Robert said:

Your source is human...it is not divine. You are adding to the Bible using worldly interpretations.

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I would suggest another source than the english language as a means of communication.

[Robert]

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LifeHiscost said: Contradictions in God's Word are only in the minds of those who misunderstand Him....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">Here’s another contradiction, unless you understand the principle that God sees and describes Himself as doing what He does not prevent:

First let’s define deception as sinful:

“evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.” 2 Tim 3:13

There is none who does good, There is not even one. 13 Their throat is an open grave, With their tongues they keep deceiving,” “The poison of asps is under their lips” 14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness” ; 15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood, 16 Destruction and misery are in their paths…Romans 3:12-16

“And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie….” 2 Thess 2:11

[Robert]

Another contradiction, unless you understand the principle already set forth:

"The anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel and He [The Lord] moved David . . . to . . . number Israel and Judah (2 Sam. 24:2)."

"Now Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel...." (1 Chron. 21:1)

[Robert]

If 9/11 happened and had been recorded during Biblical times I have no doubt that God would have said,

• "I, the Lord your God, brought down the twin towers; I utterly destroyed them!"

But that's God assuming the blame. What really happened?

Well, God knows the secrets of men's hearts. He knows the truth. We get "spin" whether it's from FOX, CNN, the White House or the terrorists.

Perhaps the buildings came down because God removed Himself? Why, I don't know? We know that He brings rain (another way of saying "blessings") on the just and the unjust. I guess this is something we will learn during the 1000 years in heaven before God returns to raise those who persistently said "get lost" to God.

Let's face something. This nation, compared to other nations, is a fairly good one. We don't have a dictatorship, but at the same time this nation belongs to what John called "the kingdoms of this world". So don't be surprised when these things happen.

[Robert]

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Robert said:

Another contradiction, unless you understand the principle already set forth:

"The anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel and He [The Lord] moved David . . . to . . . number Israel and Judah (2 Sam. 24:2)."

"Now Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel...." (1 Chron. 21:1)

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What do you do with the above, LifeHiscost?

Rob

[Robert]

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Robert said:

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Robert said:

Another contradiction, unless you understand the principle already set forth:

"The anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel and He [The Lord] moved David . . . to . . . number Israel and Judah (2 Sam. 24:2)."

"Now Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel...." (1 Chron. 21:1)

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What do you do with the above, LifeHiscost?

Rob

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Nothing! Good, maybe now you can see your error in placing human characteristics upon God. We do like a god in our image. Kind of makes things we do okay, huh?

Rob