CaseyButler Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 Jesus said: "And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give (it) you. "Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father." [KJV-Bible: John 16:22-25] The word "Father" applied to God seems to appear only once in the Old Testament, in Isaiah's prophecy of the Messiah, chapter 9 verse 6. One of my own first questions to God was, "Why are You now our Father?" First He led me to Jesus' description of God, as our Father. That description is as follows in Matthew: "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. "For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more (than others)? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." [KJV-Bible: Matthew 5:44-48] So to be perfect like God, man must love his enemies, bless them that curse him, do good to them that hate him, and pray for them which despitefully use him, and persecute him. Then there is the description of God our Father in Luke: "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets. But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. "And unto him that smiteth thee on the (one) cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not (to take thy) coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask (them) not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. "For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. And if ye lend (to them) of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. "But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and (to) the evil. "Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful." [KJV-Bible: Luke 6:26-36] Here in Luke Jesus describes how God our Father treats mankind. Jesus description of God is extremely important for us to hold to, because John writes: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared (him)." [KJV-Bible: John 1:18] Yet of the Father John writes that Jesus said: "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." [KJV-Bible: John 6:45-46] So while no man has seen God, even Jesus as a Man according to John, Jesus tells us that "he which is of God" has seen the Father. And Jesus, whom John says is "in the bosom of the Father", declared the Father to us. As He has so many places in the Gospels, Jesus Himself is pointing the Way to begin to understand why God chose to teach us the concept of God as our Father. Please consider: "And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered." [KJV-Bible: Mark 14:27] We find this reference in the book of Zechariah: "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. "And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, (that) I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. "And it shall come to pass, (that) when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. "And it shall come to pass in that day, (that) the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive: "But he shall say, I (am) no prophet, I (am) an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth. "And (one) shall say unto him, What (are) these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, (Those) with which I was wounded (in) the house of my friends. "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man (that is) my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. "And it shall come to pass, (that) in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off (and) die; but the third shall be left therein. "And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It (is) my people: and they shall say, The LORD (is) my God." [KJV-Bible: Zechariah 13:1-9] We all know what happened. This chapter describes the state of Judaism at the time of Jesus ministry. All four Gospels provide the key to this chapter of prophecy which is written as a "dark saying". We know that John wrote: "Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all (men) will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. And one of them, (named) Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. "And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad." [KJV-Bible: John 11:47-52] Who must we say were the instruments of God's Wrath here, who prophesied His sacrifice and acted as His "sword" for the purpose of "smiting the shepherd"? In Revelation Jesus says He holds the "Key of David". David, we know, wrote much of Psalms. In Psalms we find a definition for God's "sword": "Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings, From the wicked that oppress me, (from) my deadly enemies, (who) compass me about. They are inclosed in their own fat: with their mouth they speak proudly. "They have now compassed us in our steps: they have set their eyes bowing down to the earth; Like as a lion (that) is greedy of his prey, and as it were a young lion lurking in secret places. "Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, (which is) thy sword: "From men (which are) thy hand, O LORD, from men of the world, (which have) their portion in (this) life, and whose belly thou fillest with thy hid (treasure): they are full of children, and leave the rest of their (substance) to their babes. As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness." [KJV-Bible: Psalms 17:8-15] According to prophecy, then, God considered the Pharisees His sword. David defines God's sword, and His hand, as wicked men. Do any others have any thoughts on resolving all of this to our Father as Jesus has declared Him to the world? Casey Quote
Robert Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 So to be perfect like God, man must love his enemies, bless them that curse him, do good to them that hate him, and pray for them which despitefully use him, and persecute him. Much more...Jesus lived a selfless life - one free from all self-seeking. This you are failing to do! Therefore you are not perfect. Hence your whole post is a moot point. FYI, Robert Quote
CaseyButler Posted October 12, 2006 Author Posted October 12, 2006 Much more...Jesus lived a selfless life - one free from all self-seeking. This you are failing to do! Therefore you are not perfect. Hence your whole post is a moot point. Robert, Robert, why are you persecuting me? :-) I admit it - I'm not Jesus, rather I am the chief of sinners. Read the message again please, please respond intelligently and rationally if you wish to respond. If you just want to badger me and judge me, I politely request that you desist. Casey Quote
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted October 13, 2006 Posted October 13, 2006 Hi Casey, I haven't read this post yet, it's late, can I make a suggestion? Let's if at all possible make our posts shorter. I say this because I don't have much time but I'd like to reply. BTW Robert is not perscuting you, he's stating an absolute fact that applies to us all. my 2 cents Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522
CaseyButler Posted October 13, 2006 Author Posted October 13, 2006 Hi Casey, I haven't read this post yet, it's late, can I make a suggestion?Let's if at all possible make our posts shorter. I say this because I don't have much time but I'd like to reply. BTW Robert is not perscuting you, he's stating an absolute fact that applies to us all. my 2 cents I didn't post this thread to be about me, Norman. I wasn't disagreeing with being called imperfect. I was disagreeing that my point is moot because I am imperfect. Someday ego will no longer be an issue, and we will all be able to seek God without accidently stepping on anybody's own enlarged ego. :-) Regarding length: Without the scripture my post is quite reasonable, I think. I believe in quoting within as much context as possible. If you don't have time to consider it, no problem. Casey Quote
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