Christians celebrate WITCHCRAFT????

[Guest]

WHEN A REBEL IS NOT A REBEL

It is important to understand that not everything we label as rebellion is actually rebellion.

In relation to 1 Sam 15, a rebel is a man who resists the authority of God or a man who resists the authority established by God. When someone is resisting an authority like a dictator, they should not be labeled as a rebel.

If a person in authority (i.e. a dictator) abuses their authority or has assumed the position of authority illegitimately, then the one who resists them is not rebelling.

In this case, it is actually the person who is exercising the unjust or illegitimate authority that is rebelling.

REBELLION DEFINED

Rebellion occurs when someone rejects the authority of God or the legitimate authorities established by God. There are many different types (or levels) of legitimate authority.

Some of these are: the authority of God Himself, the authority of His Word, the apostles and prophets, teachers, governments, parents, etc. All of these authorities are established by God and should be obeyed to the full extent that they are godly and legitimate.

In their proper context, these authorities benefit mankind. They provide us with guidance, understanding, order, and spiritual covering that can aid in keeping us safe from evils that would try to separate us from God.

The benefits of legitimate authority make it clear why we should avoid rebelling against them and why we should avoid the use or influence of illegitimate authority.

More in my next post.

[Guest]

FREE WILL

The legitimate authority that we will focus on here is the authority of "free will." God has given every man the freedom to make his own choices (whether right or wrong).

When a person imposes their will on someone else in such a manner as to cause them to do something against their will, then that person has rebelled against the authority of "free will" that was established by God.

In 1 Sam 15, King Saul rebelled against the authority of God when he was intimidated by the people so that he followed their will instead of God's will.

One should have little doubt that Saul would have obeyed the command of God if his will had not been intimidated by fear of the people. This rebellious disobedience is said to be witchcraft.

We KNOW the Bible refers to divination, fortunetelling, necromancy, etc. which are also considered witchcraft; but for the purpose of this article, we will focus on the Biblical statement, "rebellion is witchcraft."

Rebellion occurs any time that there is an act which usurps or subverts the authority of God or the authority established by God. Sometimes rebellion is called illegitimate authority because it takes authority where it does not have authority.

More in my final post.

[aka]

Thank you so much for turning on a light so we can view the substance of Rebellion for what it is.

I have learned from what you wrote.

Others who have been reading these portions under this topic you started are nodding in agreement (is how I imagine).

"Christians celebrate Witchcraft" topic title came about causing you to start posting because this is the season of Halloween, right? Well chosen theme for this time of year. It is well established that our church members (not all) allowed yesterday their family to celebrate the pagan custom. Many allowed their kids to get dressed up in role-playing costumes representing evil characters. I can only imagine how far the adult groups of our church members went in participating in party's representing an abridged versions of heathen celebration of Oct. 31

[Amelia]

Well I was working at one of our major retailers and they allowed the employees to wear costumes. The majority of those dressed up were witches of various types. There were a couple of typical vampires and a few goth vampires. One of the butchers was a zombie, which was really creepy and there were some Harry Potter characters. The number of non sinister type costumes was 2.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

And what does the modern witch of today look like? How about a modern vampirist?

I know ya'll are talking about Halloween costumes. Just ignore me... I'm having a real problem with some of the things being said here..

::steps quickly out of thread and runs from forum::

[Dottie]

There is a town near here which is populated by "mediums." That is there one and only claim to fame.

So, they made it to the news last week. Seems they're only out to help people, and tell them only nice things when asked to tell fortunes, or whatever it is they do. Also, they said, "We believe in God. There's nothing wrong with witchcraft, it's mentioned in the Bible."

We didn't participate at all in the "festival" this month. My son can't deal with any type of excitement, and he is overinterested in blood and gore.

[Naomi]

Don't know for sure if I've met any modern day vampirist, but do know for sure about a few modern day witches. Looked like everyone else.......

Just let it go Pam ... ok -:)

[gina i]

How many Christians celebrate Christmas?

Probably most of them. And we do it knowingly that it was from pagan roots.. So all the same yeah?

Just trying to play 'Devil's advocate' here.

Why is one pagan holiday wrong & the other not? Because it's more socially acceptable?

[Naomi]

Hi gina i ... to my knowledge all holidays have pagan roots.

It's your individual belief structure and what it means to you.

[gina i]

True Naomi, true. Was just putting the question out there & see how people think! :)

[Guest]

Please forgive me for posting this subject so close to Hallow's eve.

Although I have in the pasted posted articles pointing out the pagan roots of alot of holidays in our local paper, I just wanted to point out that Scripture points out that rebellion is EQUAL TO the sin of witchcraft.

I never intended my posts to go this far or in this direction.

People in my yeshiva (Jewish Bible study class) are allowed at the end of any sermon to ask questions before I dismiss them.

*****PLEASE NOTE: this Yeshiva is open to christians, Jews, or Jews from India. 95% attending are NOT believers or followers of Jesus.*****

This was their question: "What does the Holy Scriptures mean when they say that witchcraft is like rebellion"?

How would YOU, dear reader, answer THEIR question?

This weeks question that I will be attempting to answer is:

"Jews were and continue to look forward to their deliverance from the Annointed One (Literal translation for the word: Moshiach/Messiah). If Jesus didn't come 2000 years ago, WHO would the christians look forward to?

So dear reader, time for you to play "rabbi" what's your answer?

[gina i]

WHO would they look forward to?

No one. Easy answer.

[Guest]

BUZZZ!!!!

Wrong answer Gina, try again.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I think that wouldl be extremely interesting for me to attend - however, alas and alack, I live way too far from BC).

Quote:

"What does the Holy Scriptures mean when they say that witchcraft is like rebellion"?

How would YOU, dear reader, answer THEIR question?

I would think rebellion is not giving God His due credit in His words, actions, decisions....thinking that perhaps *you* KNOW better, can DO it better, can BE better. Or perhaps God just needs a bit of *help* in His work. *That* is how I see witchcraft as rebellion. (Probably not a good Biblical answer - sorry. I'm not a theologian by any stretch of the imagination. I dont know where the Bible says that witchcraft is rebellion per se.)

If Jesus did not come 2000 years ago, Christians would NOT look forward to any Christ, because there would be no Christianity - no Christians - as yet. Jews look forward to the Messiah....I would think that, as did the Magi and other wise men (both Jewish and pagan) who searched scripture for its *mystic* allure and prophecy, people would STILL be looking for the Messiah today. But first, would they not be looking for Elijah again? The *voice calling in the desert, preparing the way*?

I dunno. I'm probably way off base too....

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

unorthodoxrabbi said:

Quote:

*****PLEASE NOTE: this Yeshiva is open to christians, Jews, or Jews from India. 95% attending are NOT believers or followers of Jesus.*****

I think that wouldl be extremely interesting for me to attend - however, alas and alack, I live way too far from BC).

Quote:

"Jews were and continue to look forward to their deliverance from the Annointed One (Literal translation for the word: Moshiach/Messiah). If Jesus didn't come 2000 years ago, WHO would the christians look forward to?

So dear reader, time for you to play "rabbi" what's your answer?

If Jesus did not come 2000 years ago, Christians would NOT look forward to any Christ, because there would be no Christianity - no Christians - as yet. Jews look forward to the Messiah....I would think that, as did the Magi and other wise men (both Jewish and pagan) who searched scripture for its *mystic* allure and prophecy, people would STILL be looking for the Messiah today. But first, would they not be looking for Elijah again? The *voice calling in the desert, preparing the way*?

I dunno. I'm probably way off base too....

[Neil D]

Quote:

Why is one pagan holiday wrong & the other not? Because it's more socially acceptable?

The answer is because the reason for celebrating those pagan holidays have changed since thier inception. Therefore, some of them are no longer 'pagan'. To say that they are still pagan, is to ignore the current reasons for setting aside time to celebrate.

A good example of this is the Christmas season.

There are many philosophys toward Christmas. The current secular reason for celebrating Christmas is totally selfish...That is, it is the accepted time of year to give gifts and perpetuate the myths of the seasons, resulting in joy or happiness.

The Christian reason, while it does take in the gift giving, has 2 aspects. The first is His coming to live with mankind, and the other is the emphasis on Jesus and His gift toward mankind in redeeming us. Even Christians are split as they emphasis is on one or the other or occassionally both as the core reason for the season.

Another reason for the season is a reactionary to the above two cultures. The Jews have reacted with thier season of Lights,Hannakah, commemorateing the rededication of the Temple at Jerusalem.

Kwanzaa is another culturally growing reaction to the Xmas season. While it does not embrace Jesus as a reason to celebrate, Kwanzaa is an African Americans celebration that celebrates family, community and culture.

Each of these cultures have thier reasons for celebrating, but the traditional giving of gifts, started by Christmas, is the enduring part of this celebration at this time of year to which all cultures have reacted in relative resent times. In case you don't understand, your current Christmas holidays, was propably invented aroundn the late 1800s. Xmas past this time were far more aster in thier celebrations...

[Neil D]

Quote:

This was their question: "What does the Holy Scriptures mean when they say that witchcraft is like rebellion"?

How would YOU, dear reader, answer THEIR question?

Very easily...Witchcraft's focus is not on Jesus and His sacrific toward mankind. In fact, to focus on witchcraft is take one's eyes off the object of the Christians desire, that is Christ.

And the next question should be, why should we focus on Christ?

...AND if we don't have an answer to that, we just don't understand our relationship to Christ....don't we?

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

.Witchcraft's focus is not on Jesus and His sacrific toward mankind. In fact, to focus on witchcraft is take one's eyes off the object of the Christians desire, that is Christ.

Now that sounds a lot like Hollywood

[gina i]

Oh sorry, wrong answer, didn't know this was a class & we were your students.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

Neil said:

Witchcraft's focus is not on Jesus and His sacrific toward mankind. In fact, to focus on witchcraft is take one's eyes off the object of the Christians desire, that is Christ.

Now that sounds a lot like Hollywood

Actually, what Neil said is EXACTLY what happens. imho

[Guest]

Nah.

I'm not a teacher here.

Not yet.

Look forward to seeing you'all in Kosher Korner.