The 144,000

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

As I was driving home tonight and listening to Rev on MP3, I thought about the 144,000 in Rev 7 & 14. Here's what I thought

Are the 144K in Rev 7 the same as the 144 k in ch 14?

The ones in ch 7 seem to be literal Jews and then followed by the rest of the saved.

The ones in ch 14 don't have anything mentioned about them being Jews.

I'm just not sure of this and have not thought about this till a few weeks ago. I will look at this when I have more time.

Any thoughts?

Norman

[David Koot]

Are the 144K in Rev 7 the same as the 144 k in ch 14?

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi David,

Quote:

As for being 'Jews,' the reference here is to spiritual Israel. Literal Israel had her day in the sun, and rejected God, so the Israel of God today, the spiritual descendants of Abraham, are not specifically literal Jews, but people from 'every kindred, tongue, people and nation.'

I've always looked at this in the same way as you have and still do. But I started to listen to Ch 7 and 14 over and over again and I saw that ch 7 is refering to litereal Jews other wise why would John go on to discribe in Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

there are definitely two groups being spoken of. I am not convinced that they are two separate groups in ch 7 & 14 I still hold the view that you do, but I am going to look at it a little closer.

EGW does say that there will be some Jews in the last day who will join the remnant and give the Sabbath a new light or something like that. Also Paul talks about Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

I'm not saying what the evangelicals are, that the Jews as a nation are going to receive the promises etc... I just want to look this over.

Please continue to share

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi David,

I just heard someone talk about what I was thinking, on SafeTV

He said the 144K are in heaven.

While I don't agree with that I was thinking the ones moentioned in ch 7 might be.

There are 24 elders, 12 from the OT 12 from the NT, 144K literal Jews from the OT and 144K from the NT Spiritual Jews.

I still hold that there are only 144K Spritual Jews and agree with your post. I am just thinking out loud.

I welcome more comments, any comments just let me know what you think, or anyone else.

Norman

[Yong T Tay]

Who are the 144,000?

Are they the saints who have perfected their characters and live a sinless life without an intercessor in the last days of earth history just before Christ's second coming?

Or are they the group of the most worthy saints who had lived through out earth history and are resurrected at a special resurrection mentioned in Daniel 12:2 "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake. Some to everlasting life. Some to shame and everlasting contempt.", at the close of probation just before Jesus's second coming, to prepare the world to welcome and to witness the glorious second coming of Christ? Among them would be Abel, Seth, Noah, Job, Abraham, David, Daniel, Mary, Luke, Peter, John, Stephen and Paul.

The great multitude mentioned in Rev. 7:9 "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands," are those just living who are changed in the twinkling of an eye and those just dead who are resurrected at the second coming of Christ.

Just some thoughts to think about.

yongttay

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi yongttay,

Some interesting thoughts. Not sure I agree with them all though.

What scriptures have you read that helped you come to these comclusions?

Norman

[Aliensanctuary]

The time sequence of events in Rev is difficult to sort out. How the 144K come into existence is unclear. Our churches of today probably couldn't produce even one of them.

I suspect they are all martyrs, killed in the process of resisting Satan's destructive reign. They include those beheaded by the Beast, and the rest of those who died resisting its power. Following their resurrection at the 1st Resurrection, the 1K years begins. During the 1K years, the 144K examine the life records of everyone who ever lived in the whole world. The 144K have already passed the test and are no longer subject to the 2nd Death.

Quote:

Rev 20

4. Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus, for proclaiming the word of God. And I saw the souls of those who had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their forehead or their hands. They came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5. This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.)

6. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

The rest of the dead, including everyone not a part of the 144K, are reassembled during the 2nd Resurrection. That includes nearly everyone that has ever lived on this planet.

When everyone is resurrected, Satan is released and given the opportunity to deceive everyone. It is during this time that the 3 Angel's Messages are given to the whole world and everyone is tested to see if they will chose Satan, or God, as their leader. Jesus mentioned this time period several times. God's people gather together in the beloved city and the Temple built by the Lord located in Israel.

Gog and Magog, all the people who chose Satan as their Master surround and attack the city, overwhelming its defenses. The starship city Babylon, Master and Destroyer of the Earth, is destroyed during this war.

The war is interrupted when God arrives to stop the attack on the Temple/City and examine the books and execute the sentences determined during the 1K years. (The people of God must escape to the hills when God destroys the attackers.) Everyone killed during the Time of Trouble following the 1K years are again resurrected to face sentencing, whether it's eternal death or eternal life.

Quote:

Rev 20

7. When the thousand years end, Satan will be let out of his prison.

8. He will go out to deceive the nations from every corner of the earth, which are called Gog and Magog. He will gather them together for battle-a mighty host, as numberless as sand along the shore.

9. And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded God's people and the beloved city. But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and consumed them.

10. Then the Devil, who betrayed them, was thrown into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

11. And I saw a great white throne, and I saw the one who was sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide.

12. I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God's throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to the things written in the books, according to what they had done.

13. The sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the grave* gave up the dead in them. They were all judged according to their deeds.

14. And death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death-the lake of fire.

15. And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.