Christian unity - is it a moot issue?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Is unity within Christianity a moot issue? Will it never happen? Is it a pie in the sky wish that I have? Can it only occur if everyone agrees on *everything*?

I understand that there are core Christian issues, but how does one separate out the core issues from the important, but not *salvational* issues? It isn't like there's one book in the Bible that is the *Grand Pooba* of all scripture, is there???

(please, please, please...don't turn this thread into *the law is not important* topic..)

[Gail]

I have seen some wonderful instances of unity within a church family. Sure there will be some differences, because we all have our own experiences

But I strongly believe that the Holy Spirit is unifying, not in the sense that God produces a line of robots but that believers can be unified in purpose and strength and love

Now- can one have unity on demand? Hmm...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

::frustrated look::

I don't WANT unity on demand!!! But should unity in spirit be such a difficult thing for a God????? If his created humanity is WILLING to do His work, then why should it be such a millstone around the necks of christians???

It just seems to me that if something - SOMETHING - WHATEVER -SOMETHING GOOD - SOMETHING POWERFUL - SOMETHING.... geez..I dunno.. it just seems like Christianity is turning into a spiritual moot concept. That bothers me. A lot.

[Gail]

I think that what prevents God from unifying totally is the gift of free choice that He gives us. Mix that with our selfish natures and you get a line that God cannot cross without forcing Himself on us

If we would be willing to submit totally to Him and trust Him, then I know the unity will come.

I have seen it- while my church family is not perfect, it is wonderful to see how they work together

And it would be awesome if it worked on a bigger scale. Perhaps circumstances need to be different for people to realise the need for God's help in this

[mrs.rabbi]

~Shalom~

Regarding your question on Christian Unity...*

Are you sick of lies?

If so..~w~o~n~d~e~r~f~u~l~

Then it CAN be said ..it IS well with your soul when you are sick of being fiction for truth!

The BEST religion is NO religion.

The PLACE of Faith is NOT religion.

The place of faith is a place of HOPE founded in TRUTH and *communicated* by LOVE.

Religion exisits BECAUSE man desires *title* and G-d requires *boundary*

Man is always looking for a place of *value* within the context of place in the Universe;G-d aleady knows the sea of humanity has the ability to usurp the coasts and forfeitthe blessings of others as *sacrifice* because of selfish desire.

We must rememeber that G-d requires mercy rather sacrifice.

The mircocosim of the home can PROVE the faiabilty OR the accountability of leadership.

Orthodox Judaism contends that when everyone is DOING the good wok that will usher in the Messiah her ewill be a great wave of redemption.

There are no waves in stagnant waters..only *living..moving waters*

When the great wave of redemptio pulls together the UNITY of mankind..therein IS *UNITY* our *LIVING HOPE...Who is LOVE*

~ShabbatShalom~

Sincerely,*mrs.rabbi*

ClearJewel/HealthyHebrew

HealthyHebrew@teachfitness.com

[John317]

Is unity within Christianity a moot issue? Will it never happen? Is it a pie in the sky wish that I have? Can it only occur if everyone agrees on *everything*?

I understand that there are core Christian issues, but how does one separate out the core issues from the important, but not *salvational* issues? It isn't like there's one book in the Bible that is the *Grand Pooba* of all scripture, is there???

(please, please, please...don't turn this thread into *the law is not important* topic..)

I would like Christian unity, too. I'm a firm believer in Seventh-day Adventist doctrines because I find them the closest to what the Bible teaches, but my ideal of unity with other Christians motivates me to visit other churches often.

For instance, this past Sabbath I visited a Reformed SDA Movement and had a very blessed worship service with them. It was a small but very friendly group of only about 20. A Romanian-American brother gave a wonderful sermon on the woman who only wanted to touch the hem of Jesus' garmet for healing. The speaker opened with an interesting remark about the Bible's being a leaf from the tree of life. Afterward we had a great potluck dinner and they gave me literature on the Reformed Movement, much of which I've already read.

My ideal of unity has also motivated me to study the doctrines and history of Roman Catholics, Mormon's, Baptists, and Presbyterians. For the past year I have been studying with a Jehovah's Witness once a week. Last July I stayed with him and his family during a three day convention at Long Beach, CA. I occassionally go with him to the Kingdom Hall. We've become good friends. Two weeks ago we studied the Sabbath. I will meet him and a leading elder again tomorrow to study the "Invisibility of Christ." Of course I have lots of questions about what they believe on the time and manner of Christ's parousia (presence, or coming).

What have I learned from all this? I've learned that if there is ever to be real unity among Christians, it will have to be a miracle brought about by the Holy Spirit. I've also learned that some of the main reasons for the lack of unity are:

(1) members are taught by their leaders what to think instead of studying the whole Bible for themselves;

(2) usually only certain Bible verses are studied by the group;

(3) members are taught to view everyone outside their group as "fallen" or "unfaithful," etc.;

(4) members of some groups won't even pray with members of other groups, nor have I heard them pray for others outside their group;

(5) many groups think they alone are being used of God and doing God's will;

(6) they lack love and concern for members of other groups;

(7) they have little or no interest in understanding what others think;

(8) they have almost no association with members of other groups.

Real unity can only come as a result of the kind of love and unity that Jesus talked about in His prayer to His Father in John 17. Without that, honestly there's no real hope for it.

[Gail]

Good points!

[D. Allan]

I like your 8 points, John317. SDAs have a great opportunity to fellowship with other christians on sundays. I walked down the aisle in a Nazarene church during an altar call when God was redeeming me. They wanted me to join but i said, oh, i'm an adventist. They had GREAT music there. Since being rebaptized in the SDA church, i've been in Methodist, Lutheran, Congregational, Disciples of Christ, and United Church of Christ churches. It would be especially good for SDA pastors to visit other churches, in my opinion, for what its worth.

The United Church of Christ has as its motto; THAT THEY ALL MAY BE ONE. They have decided as a church "to agree to disagree."

[Naomi]

Last year while holding a mission campaign a pastor from a local protestant church came to visit and asked me to speak at his church on Sunday. The answer was, of course, yes.

Seriously, I do not think that we will ever see total unity while on this earth; in any nationality, religious group, family, etc……when sin entered the peace and unity departed.

[Naomi]

Shalom,

Mrs. Rabbi,

Quote:

Orthodox Judaism contends that when everyone is DOING the good wok that will usher in the Messiah her ewill be a great wave of redemption.

There are no waves in stagnant waters..only *living..moving waters* [/quote

Yes, it makes us, as an individual, personally responsible for the "ushering in of the Messiah"; or, as some have said, "If it is to be, it is up to me."

It's been a long time since I've heard it said, "There are no waves in stagnant waters ... only *living...moving waters*"

Thank you, Mrs. Rabbi, for bring that back to my memory.

ShabbatShalom

Naomi

[D. Allan]

Quote:

Last year while holding a mission campaign a pastor from a local protestant church came to visit and asked me to speak at his church on Sunday. The answer was, of course, yes.

Wonderful. Now, if you can have him speak at yours wouldn't that help spread unity? At least in fellowship, and brotherly love? I'm beginning to think that 'fellowship' is equally if not more important than 'teaching.'

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Pam,

I remember when there were some unifying times in the US. 9/11 comes to mind. We became brothers and sisters for a moment. What caused that? Was it the planes crashing and building coming down? Well maybe part of it.

I think it was the vision given to us of the helplessness of those who were right there suffering right at that moment. Our hearts went out to them, "What can I do to help?????" was on our hearts. We forgot about ourselves and our problems. We looked for someone to comfort. Not everyone was doing this but a good amount were.

To transfer that phenomenom to our experience, we must (as Christians) see the helplessness of those around us. To see their need and to realize that unless we say something or do something, they may be lost. Unfortunately and to our loss of the joy Christ has prepared for us, we are navel gazing and are worried about our own souls intead of grabbing hold of the free gift. (I am not hinting or making any implications, just talking facts)

I have experienced some of the greatest blessings and cause for rejoicing with the "Brethren" when we have gone and studied or shared the Gospel or just sang some songs, with people in need.

Norman

[Clio]

When Christian unity occurs, then you will know the end is truly nigh.

And those in unity world wide will be most surprised when He denies them, for their toxic ecumenicism which has deceived so many.

[KiwiJohn]

Great thread!

i have had many great discussions about the subject. Here are some of my conclusions:

1. God will have a united church before the end. (it may not resemble what we call church today, but then again it might!)

2. Sunday keepers and Sabbath keepers can only pretend to be united. ("Can two walk together unless they be agreed?")

3. To quote a previous comment: (The United Church of Christ has as its motto; THAT THEY ALL MAY BE ONE. They have decided as a church "to agree to disagree.")

I agree with working towards answering Jesus prayer "that they all may be one," (I include every Christian on earth). But what does the last phrase mean? Many people use it and many think its true. I cannot understand how it has anything to do with truth or Christianity.

4. "Unity in Diversity" is an oxymoron. Most people think this is a description of good relationships. However I need an explanation of this phrase too. It makes no sense to me at all. Diversity (eg, differing doctrines; races; ages; genders; social status; etc) is an impediment to unity. Differences need to be put aside. As Norman says, we need to forget about ourselves and work for the good of others - first for those in our congregation - Gal. 6:10 Then we shall have unity.

From Acts of the Apostles (Ellen G White)p37

"The disciples prayed with intense earnestness for a fitness to meet men and in their daily intercourse to speak words that would lead sinners to Christ. Putting away all differences, all desire for the supremacy, they came close together in Christian fellowship. They drew nearer and nearer to God, and as they did this they realized what a privilege had been theirs in being permitted to associate so closely with Christ. Sadness filled their hearts as they thought of how many times they had grieved Him by their slowness of comprehension, their failure to understand the lessons that, for their good, He was trying to teach them."

This experience led to what happened in Acts 2 - they were all in one accord in one place and the Holy Sprirt was poured out in greatest power up until that time. thousands were added to the church in one day.

[David Koot]

Is unity within Christianity a moot issue? Will it never happen?

[LifeHiscost]

Is unity within Christianity a moot issue? Will it never happen? Is it a pie in the sky wish that I have? Can it only occur if everyone agrees on *everything*?

As to the first question, I would say it is not a moot issue for those who believe the Word.

"...with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; giving diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as also ye were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all." Ephesians 4:2-6 ASV

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, [these] shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. " John 16:13 ASV

Regards!!

[LifeHiscost]

I have experienced some of the greatest blessings and cause for rejoicing with the "Brethren" when we have gone and studied or shared the Gospel or just sang some songs, with people in need.

Norman

"Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. "

James 1:27 NKJV

"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. " Rev 12:11 NKJV

It's the best way to keep the adversary at bay.

[LifeHiscost]

Yes, it makes us, as an individual, personally responsible for the "ushering in of the Messiah"; or, as some have said, "If it is to be, it is up to me."

This premise above would of course, remove the helpless from any hope of ushering in the Kingdom of Messiah.

"For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity." Acts 8:23 NASB

"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing." John 15:5 ASV

"He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone.

"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Now as they observed the confidence of Peter and John and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed, and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus" Acts 4:11-13 NASB

Regards!