David Koot Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 Recently, Stan posed a question in the "Polls" forum about how many times the High Priest entered the Most Holy Place on the Day of Atonement. He mentioned that a correct understanding of this question can be helpful in affirming the Biblical understanding of the antitypical Day of Atonement as taught by the Adventist church. This seems like an interesting and important topic to explore in depth. The chapter in the Bible which provides information, is Leviticus 16. I would like to open this thread for the purpose, first, of determining how many times the High Priest, in fact, was to enter the Most Holy Place (MHP) on the Day of Atonement (DA) Secondly, how does the answer to that question bear on the issue of the antitypical Day of Atonement as taught from the Bible by the Adventist church? Specifically, the Biblical understanding is that the Investigative Judgment began in 1844, when Christ entered the MHP in the heavenly sanctuary. How about it? Dave Quote
Aliensanctuary Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 What is an "antitypical Day of Atonement"? Do you mean the Earthly Day of Atonement performed every year to symbolize the Real Day of Atonement? Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
David Koot Posted November 21, 2006 Author Posted November 21, 2006 Here are the pertinent verses from Lev. ch. 16. Can we identify here the times the HP entered the MHP on the DA? "Le 16:3 "Thus Aaron shall come into the Holy Place: with the blood of a young bull as a sin offering, and of a ram as a burnt offering. 4 "He shall put the holy linen tunic and the linen trousers on his body; he shall be girded with a linen sash, and with the linen turban he shall be attired. These are holy garments. Therefore he shall wash his body in water, and put them on. 5 ¶ "And he shall take from the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats as a sin offering, and one ram as a burnt offering. 6 "Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house." Okay, is this the first time the HP entered the MHP on that day? 7 "He shall take the two goats and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. 8 "Then Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats: one lot for the LORD and the other lot for the scapegoat. 9 "And Aaron shall bring the goat on which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer it as a sin offering. 10 "But the goat on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make atonement upon it, and to let it go as the scapegoat into the wilderness. 11 "And Aaron shall bring the bull of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house, and shall kill the bull as the sin offering which is for himself. 12 "Then he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from the altar before the LORD, with his hands full of sweet incense beaten fine, and bring it inside the veil. 13 "And he shall put the incense on the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the Testimony, lest he die. 14 "He shall take some of the blood of the bull and sprinkle it with his finger on the mercy seat on the east side; and before the mercy seat he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times." And is that the second time he entered the MHP? 15 ¶ "Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people, bring its blood inside the veil, do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and before the mercy seat. 16 "So he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions, for all their sins; and so he shall do for the tabernacle of meeting which remains among them in the midst of their uncleanness." Is this the third time he went in? So far, do we see three times the HP entered the MHP on the DA? Or have I misunderstood the Scripture? Quote
David Koot Posted November 21, 2006 Author Posted November 21, 2006 What is an "antitypical Day of Atonement"? Do you mean the Earthly Day of Atonement performed every year to symbolize the Real Day of Atonement? Okay, the yearly D of A was the typical service, pointing forward to the antitype (a rather awkward word IMO, and, to me, of questionable accuracy. Would be interested if Ichabod has any info on how this word came into usage. Ed, was this word coined by Adventists, and is it part of the 'Adventese' vocabulary, or is it in circulation outside our circles?) IOW the yearly D of A was a 'shadow' of the true, pointing forward to the reality which began in 1844, and which we call the 'Antitypical Day of Atonement.' Dave Quote
Clio Posted November 27, 2006 Posted November 27, 2006 A special ceremony was performed when a new high priest was installed. A wave offering was given and it was followed by a ceremony which lasted seven days. Then you shall take the breast of Aaron's ram of ordination and wave it as a wave offering before the Lord, and it shall be your portion. So you shall do to Aaron and to his sons, according to all that I have commanded you; you shall ordain them through seven days.... For seven days you shall make atonement for the altar and consecrate it. (Exodus 29: 26, 35, 37). You shall not go outside the doorway of the tent of meeting for seven days, until the day that the period of your ordination is fulfilled; for He will ordain you through seven days. (Leviticus 8: 33). The Inauguration of Jesus Christ. Sunday Morning: After Jesus was resurrected, He saw Mary that Sunday morning and then presented Himself as the wave offering. When He saw her, He told her not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to the father. One reason for this is that in embalming His body on Friday evening, she had touched the dead. Therefore, she would be unclean for seven days. Sunday Evening: In the evening He saw all of His disciples, except Thomas. So when it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said "Peace be with you". (John 20: 19). After Eight Days: Eight days later, He came back and Thomas was with them. He must have been at His inauguration in heaven for the seven days. He could not leave the sanctuary for seven days according to the ordination instructions. The Legal Period of Ordination. You shall not go outside the doorway of the tent of meeting for seven days, until the day that the period of your ordination is fulfilled; for He will ordain you through seven days. (Leviticus 8: 33). The Time of Jesus' Absence: After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors had been shut and stood among them and said "Peace be with you". (John 20: 26). He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over the period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God. (Acts 1: 3). Just as Israel was built on the foundation of the twelve sons of Jacob, in the same way Christ built His church on the foundation of the twelve disciples. Significantly, one son (Dan) is not represented in the New Jerusalem and one disciple (Judas) is no longer counted with the twelve. The arrangement of the campsites around the mishkan is also different from the New Jerusalem. The priests from the tribe of Levi were to camp on all four sides next to the portable temple. They were not counted as one of the twelve. The two sons of Joseph made up the twelve tribes. Therefore, there were technically thirteen tribes. Levi was not counted and Joseph is counted twice. Jesus serves as the thirteenth tribe. In the New Jerusalem, all tribes are destined to be priests who represent God. Jesus is the high priest. The high priest wore the ephod which had twelve precious stones. The names of the twelve tribes were written on the stones. He wore this garment over his heart as he prayed on behalf of the people. Our names are continually before God. Eligibility: There are several things that can make someone unclean so that they cannot enter the sanctuary or make them ineligible to enter. Priest: Only Priests could enter the Holy place. This is why we must all become priests. High Priest: Only the High Priest could enter the Most Holy Place and only on one day of the year - Yom Kippur. Significantly, Christ removed the veil to the Most Holy Place when He died. This allowed access by ordinary priests. Now they can enter the Most Holy Place. This brings us back to the original plan of God on Mount Sinai. Originally, He had invited the whole nation to come up the mountain. But because they were afraid, they asked Moses to go for them. God wants us to approach His throne with boldness and without fear. People: Only those who were not unclean could enter the Outer Court and participate in the sacrifice (Leviticus 15: 31). The wicked will die if they enter the sanctuary unclean. Several things caused uncleanness. Sores: ... they shall put out of the camp every leper, and every one that has an issue, and whoever is defiled by the dead. (Numbers 5: 2) Discharging Blood: Numbers 5: 2 Touching the Dead: Numbers 5: 2 Drinking Blood: whoever ... eats any type of blood ... I will cut him off ... (Leviticus 17: 10) Sweating: The priests were not to wear clothes that caused them to sweat. (Ezekiel 44: 18). This represents righteousness by works because sweating is a sign of work. Next post... the colors of the Sanctuary. (Many thanks to Laverna Patterson and her work at Teachinghearts.org Copyright ©2001-2007 Teachinghearts ™ V1.73 - All rights reserved. Created: October 1, 2001 Updated: July 8, 2003. September 17, 2004. December 20, 2004.) Quote A heart where He alone has first place.
Clio Posted November 27, 2006 Posted November 27, 2006 Several colors are represented in the sanctuary and other colors are used throughout the Bible to represent other concepts. Their meaning can be demonstrated by the science of color combination. Sanctuary Colors. The primary colors and white are used in the sanctuary. White is the perfect combination of all the primary colors. The only secondary color represented is purple. It was in the design of the veil and the clothes of the High Priest. Purple was also used to cover the altar of sacrifice. It represents the sacrifice of Christ who came from God to the earth. White. Perfection and purity Blue. Law (the blue stone and the blue tassel on the clothes of the Israelites) Red. Blood (life or death) Gold (Yellow). Purified, precious possessions of God. Purple. The combination of red and blue. Christ gave his blood (red) to atone for the law (blue). Other Colors. Represent earthly realities. Black. The absence of all colors represents sin, the absence of God. Green. God's throne has a rainbow of green and the people are symbolized as green trees or grass. Orange. The work of the Holy Spirit on this earth is to refine us like gold tried in fire. There are two schemes of color combination. Red, blue and yellow are the primary colors in the combination of pigments. On the earth, this is the most common and natural use. It is how most people experience color. Therefore, God based the sanctuary colors on this fact. He uses symbolism that are more familiar to us. We see this in the different symbols He used in Nebuchadnezzar's dream and in Daniel's visions. However, in the combination of light, red, blue and green are the primary colors. This is probably the truer reality. In the city of God we will see this. Green is a primary color in the city of God. (Many thanks to Laverna Patterson and her work at Teachinghearts.org Copyright ©2001-2007 Teachinghearts ™ V1.73 - All rights reserved. Created: October 1, 2001 Updated: July 8, 2003. September 17, 2004. December 20, 2004.) Quote A heart where He alone has first place.
Moderators John317 Posted December 3, 2006 Moderators Posted December 3, 2006 Recently, Stan posed a question in the "Polls" forum about how many times the High Priest entered the Most Holy Place on the Day of Atonement. He mentioned that a correct understanding of this question can be helpful in affirming the Biblical understanding of the antitypical Day of Atonement as taught by the Adventist church. This seems like an interesting and important topic to explore in depth. The chapter in the Bible which provides information, is Leviticus 16. I would like to open this thread for the purpose, first, of determining how many times the High Priest, in fact, was to enter the Most Holy Place (MHP) on the Day of Atonement (DA) The High Priest was to go into the MHP twice on the DA. Lev. 16: 12-14 mentions the first time the High Priest enters the MHP. Lev. 16: 15,16 mentions the second time he enters the MHP. Quote: Secondly, how does the answer to that question bear on the issue of the antitypical Day of Atonement as taught from the Bible by the Adventist church? Specifically, the Biblical understanding is that the Investigative Judgment began in 1844, when Christ entered the MHP in the heavenly sanctuary. How about it? Dave As of now, before I have had time to study it for long, it seems to me that it has no bearing. For the following reason: the first time the High Priest enters the MHP, it is in order to make atonement for himself and for his house. But of course Jesus did not have to make any atonement for Himself, so there would be nothing to compare this typical ceremony to in the antitypical. This ceremony was due to the sinfulness of the High Priest and the other priests assisting him, yet we know that Jesus was not sinful. So Jesus had no need to do this part of the ceremony. I don't think that this helps at all in supporting the SDA view of the heavenly sanctuary. But I am studying the sanctuary services and the Investigative Judgment so will be back here as soon as I have a more definitive answer. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted December 3, 2006 Moderators Posted December 3, 2006 Here are the pertinent verses from Lev. ch. 16. Can we identify here the times the HP entered the MHP on the DA? "Le 16:3 "Thus Aaron shall come into the Holy Place: with the blood of a young bull as a sin offering, and of a ram as a burnt offering. 4 "He shall put the holy linen tunic and the linen trousers on his body; he shall be girded with a linen sash, and with the linen turban he shall be attired. These are holy garments. Therefore he shall wash his body in water, and put them on. 5 ¶ "And he shall take from the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats as a sin offering, and one ram as a burnt offering. 6 "Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house." Okay, is this the first time the HP entered the MHP on that day? No, there is no entrance being made here by the HP into the MHP. The first time he goes into the MHP occurs at verse 12. All of the above is simpy a description of the High Priest's preparation. It is only speaking of the Holy Place, not the Most Holy Place. Verse 2 warns Aaron not to come into the MHP except under very special circumstances, which include washing, special clothing, and various offerings. The first service, during which the HP enters the MHP for the first time, commences at verse 11. Verses 1-10 is really like a preamble of what will be given in more detail in verses 11-28. Quote: 7 "He shall take the two goats and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. 8 "Then Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats: one lot for the LORD and the other lot for the scapegoat. 9 "And Aaron shall bring the goat on which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer it as a sin offering. 10 "But the goat on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make atonement upon it, and to let it go as the scapegoat into the wilderness. 11 "And Aaron shall bring the bull of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house, and shall kill the bull as the sin offering which is for himself. 12 "Then he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from the altar before the LORD, with his hands full of sweet incense beaten fine, and bring it inside the veil. 13 "And he shall put the incense on the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the Testimony, lest he die. 14 "He shall take some of the blood of the bull and sprinkle it with his finger on the mercy seat on the east side; and before the mercy seat he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times." And is that the second time he entered the MHP? No, this is the first time he enters the MHP, at verse 12, where it is said that he brings the sweet incense "inside the veil." Quote: 15 ¶ "Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people, bring its blood inside the veil, do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and before the mercy seat. 16 "So he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions, for all their sins; and so he shall do for the tabernacle of meeting which remains among them in the midst of their uncleanness." Is this the third time he went in? No, this was the second time he went "inside the veil," (v. 15). Quote: So far, do we see three times the HP entered the MHP on the DA? Or have I misunderstood the Scripture? The HP only goes twice into the MHP on the DA. He goes in once to offer atonement for his own sins (verses 11-14) and then again he goes back inside the MHP in order to offer atonement for the people (verses 15-19). Obviously, of course, Jesus did not have to offer atonement for Himself because, unlike the sinful High Priest, Jesus was sinless from the start. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted December 16, 2006 Moderators Posted December 16, 2006 Hi Dave, Just wondering if you've come to any conclusions about the subject of this thread based on the responses you've gotten so far. John Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
David Koot Posted December 17, 2006 Author Posted December 17, 2006 Jury's still out, John. Still mulling it over. Stan seemed to see three entries, so I was waiting to see what his response would be. But I can imagine he is pretty busy. What complicates it a bit for me, is the typical challenge of translating Hebrew into English. Two different types of languages, one a picture language which we are attempting to understand using contemporary English. Thus, when there is the instruction about how the HP is to enter the MHP, early in the chapter, I am wondering if Stan saw in that a preliminary entry? But later this week, I will take another careful look at the verses. Let's see if Stan has time to respond. Dave Quote
David Koot Posted December 17, 2006 Author Posted December 17, 2006 By the way, do you know of any good monographs on this specific question? Quote
Beryl Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 I agree that there are only two times mentioned. The one that you (and probably Stan) mentioned as the first time, definitely was only the Holy Place. I have just read this chapter in both the New International Version and the Contemporary English Version. The CEV is VERY clear on the two times. God bless, Beryl Quote "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves." But He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." 2 Cor. 12:9.
David Koot Posted December 18, 2006 Author Posted December 18, 2006 Okay, very interesting. Testimony of two witnesses. I will take a whack at it myself. Then we shall explore the ramifications of same for teachings about the antitypical Day of Atonement. Dave Quote
David Koot Posted December 18, 2006 Author Posted December 18, 2006 It is only speaking of the Holy Place, not the Most Holy Place. I seem to recall the the term 'Holy Place' is used interchangeably with the MHP, in the OT. It is used to describe either or both rooms. Unfortunately, we must rely on the "c" word to get a clear picture of which is meant. The distinction is more clear in Hebrews, where Paul speaks of 'hagia haggiwn.' (although, Des Ford attempts to make a case for a MHP rendering of 'ta hagia' in ch. 9--speaking of which, John, on what grammatical basis would Ford be able to claim that context overrides the actual form of the word, 'holy places'?) In Leviticus, I believe the context clearly establishes the 'holy place' as referring to the MHP. It is described as the Holy Place within the veil. Even then, the question still remains, as you have pointed out, is the initial description of preparation for entering the MHP, only that? Or, is there an entry described? Logically, I would think that there are three steps: one, personal preparation of the HP BEFORE entering the MHP; two, the atonement for the holy places; three, the final disposition of the sins of God's people. What are your thoughts about that? Quote
Moderators John317 Posted December 18, 2006 Moderators Posted December 18, 2006 Originally Posted By: John317 It is only speaking of the Holy Place, not the Most Holy Place. ...In Leviticus, I believe the context clearly establishes the 'holy place' as referring to the MHP. It is described as the Holy Place within the veil. Even then, the question still remains, as you have pointed out, is the initial description of preparation for entering the MHP, only that? Or, is there an entry described? Logically, I would think that there are three steps: one, personal preparation of the HP BEFORE entering the MHP; two, the atonement for the holy places; three, the final disposition of the sins of God's people. What are your thoughts about that? I think you would be very interested in what Dr. Leslie Hardinge has to say about these things in his wonderful book, With Jesus In His Sanctuary, pp. 505-525. The pages that deal directly with our topic are pp. 510-514. Dr. Hardinge believed, as I do, that Jesus went twice into the Most Holy Place on the Day of Atonement. On p. 512, however, he says, "Each of the high priest's acts illustrated some aspect of Christ's minitsry, and these two enteries into the oracle where God dwelt were no exceptions." Then on p. 513, "God's endorsement of Israel's high priest on his two entries into the most holy place, with incense and blood, pointed to Christ's ratification by His Father as both Intercessor and Sacrifice at His first ascension on the morning of the resurrection." I am still studying these pages. The interesting point I am getting out of them so far is that Dr. Hardinge seems to be saying that the two entries by the High Priest do indeed relate, as Stan has suggested, to the antitypical day of Atonement. I hope you can get access to Dr. Hardinge's book. I plan on responding also to the other ideas you've touched on in your post here but I may have to do it tomorrow. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
David Koot Posted December 19, 2006 Author Posted December 19, 2006 I hope you can get access to Dr. Hardinge's book. Unfortunately, I cannot. I used to have a couple of books by him on the sanctuary, but they were much shorter. Will have to rely on your excerpts from it. Dave Quote
Stan Posted December 19, 2006 Posted December 19, 2006 It has been a number of years since I concluded that the HP went in three times. It was very very clear to me, and I showed others and they basically said, ok, but so what? or something like that. I used to study this a lot.. Where were the sins transfered to the scapegoats? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Beryl Posted December 19, 2006 Posted December 19, 2006 Quote: Where were the sins transfered to the scapegoats? Well, it seems to me that the sins were transferred to the scapegoat in the courtyard. v.18 "Then he shall come out to the altar that is before the Lord ......" v.20 "When Aaron has finished making atonement for the Most Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting, and the altar, he shall bring forward the live goat." v.23 "THEN Aaron is to go INTO the Tent of Meeting...." The sequence seems pretty clear to me. I would take from that reading that Aaron placed the sins on the scapegoat in the courtyard (representing the earth) which is where Satan will be for the 1000 years brooding over all the sins he was going to be punished for. Beryl Quote "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves." But He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." 2 Cor. 12:9.
David Koot Posted December 23, 2006 Author Posted December 23, 2006 Okay, where do we stand on this question at this point. Beryl, you find two entries. John, you also find two entries into the MHP. Stan finds three, and is quite clear on that. how may we come to a resolution? Then, in what way may we apply the info to the teaching about the Antitypical D of A? Dave Quote
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