Salvation Basics #1

[Gregory Matthews]

Salvation Basics #1:    The following 20-minute video is the first of a series of 20 that begin with basic salvation as understood by the Christian world in general and then go into a more specific SDA understanding of salvation.

https://adventistreview.tv/programs/01-introduction-part-1-the-bumpy-journey-towards-adventist-theology-and-salvation-06fc4b

 

[Gregory Matthews]

The following will help you to better understand what this course is about:

NOTE:  in some of the below the wording is mine.

Guiding principles of the course:

1)  We must begin our study of Scripture in humbleness and with prayer.

2)  All of us bring our personal set of presuppositions to our study of Scripture.

3)  None of us have all of the answers.

4)  Those who disagree with us are children of God.

5)  SDAs who may not agree, are united in their love for the SDA Church.

Topics to be discussed:

1)  Original sin and human nature.

2)  Roman Catholic soteriology.

3) Reformation soteriology.

4)  Needed correction.

5) Theological evaluation.

6) SDA investigative Judgment.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

People are contacting me as to how they can access additional parts of this series.  I am attempting to obtain that information from the Review as the first was posted there.

 

[stinsonmarri]

I started viewing it, and the topic captured my attention. "The Bumpy Journey Towards Adventist Theology And Salvation!" I also listened to him and Pastor. I was so confused, and what he said did not make sense.

 

He said: I started viewing it, and the topic captured my attention. "The Bumpy Journey Towards Adventist Theology And Salvation!" I also listened to him and Pastor. I was so confused, and what he said did not make sense. So, what I heard him say is: When we engage with the Bible,

"We all bring presuppositions when we read the Bible."

"But what is the image of god is not quite correct?"

"A Doctrine of Salvation"

"No theological system is completely airtight."

"Our individual perspectives shape our understanding."

What on earth is this?

So, I began to ask why we need theology. So, I began to research because when I was young, we did not need a theology back in the day, and I could not understand how he described the pioneers picking here and there on a tree! The pioneers had an Advent Movement, and did they understand everything? No! Why? Because they come from different denominations, and some of their beliefs still linger. That is why they needed a messenger! When she said, "I saw, or was shown," that was THE HOLY SPIRIT leading her to the truth! I still needed to research when we came to this Adventist theology, and I was confounded!

According to Wikipedia, Adventist Theology is rooted in the infallibility of Scripture's teaching on salvation, a belief we held during the pioneer period.

This understanding was once considered a matter of truth according to the Bible, which states it is infallible! However, we know that words have been changed to hide the truth and to confuse the mind. That is why research is necessary today!

 I still needed to research when we came to this Adventist theology, and I was confounded!

Wikipedia stated: Adventist Theology is rooted in the infallibility of Scripture's teaching on salvation, a belief we held during the pioneer period.

This understanding was once considered a matter of truth according to the Bible, which states it is infallible! When I was growing up, we did not need theology! We knew this was true according to the Bible. Why? Because there is no private interpretation! We knew that because we believed in THE HOLY SPIRIT and not men's traditions!

However, we know that words in the Bible have been changed to hide the truth and confuse the mind. That is why research is necessary today! I will research thoroughly, get back to you, and show that theology is not what the pioneers believed. They relied on THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead and guide them into all truth! Blessings! I will show that it was not just Salvation but Redemption first! That Atonement was done on this earth and HIS PRIESTLY MINISTRY started in Heaven before 1844 the Judgement could begin! It was the Biblical principle dealing with Melchizedek, the Sacrificial System, Scriptures Paul wrote in Hebrew, and Scriptures in DaniEL, and Revelation! I pray humbly that you will know that I have changed and relied on THE HOLY SPIRIT. I am humble with love for all! Blessings!

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Stinsonmqrri:  It is clear that you do not understand what is said in the video.  You have questions and it is good for you to ask them.  I do not believe that I have the ability to respond to your questions in a manner that you will understand, so I will not attempt to do so.  Perhaps (?), you may later come to a better understanding/  I do not know.  The fact that you know that you are confused is good.  So, if you will just continue to realize that you may not be correct in what you think has been said, that  will be good.

[tigerwillow]

Hello Stinsonmarri,

You have brought up a lot of questions, but please allow me to first clarify the term presupposition.  Maybe it will help clear up some of the confusion for you.

 ·        Presuppositions are sets of previously formed conclusions from past knowledge and experience that we bring to all new situations we encounter.

·        Presuppositions are foundational to our way of thinking and are unique to every person depending on the person’s experience, culture, upbringing, etc.  Therefore they directly affect how every situation is viewed or interpreted.

·        Presuppositions allow us to save brain energy by not having to relearn every little detail in every situation.  They also give us a place to hang our hat, so to speak, so encountering new situations and information is not so laborious.

o   For example, when was learning to how to bake, I did not need to relearn that a spoon can be used to stir because I have stirred milk into my bowl of cereal in the past.  However, because I used a small, light spoon in that situation, I could easily assume that same small, light spoon I used before would be the best tool to use now to stir wet, gooey ingredients together.  If I try to hold on to that previous stirring experience (presupposition) I may end up with a mess on my hands!  But if use the conclusion that a spoon will stir, to my advantage, I can now more easily see that I just need to switch to a larger, heavier spoon more suitable for mixing that cake batter.

o   But there is warning to be careful that our presuppositions do not act like blinders or hindrances in the new situation.  For example, let’s say that since first stirring the milk into my bowl of cereal, I have never used a different size or shape of spoon.  So when I am ready to stir that cake batter, I immediately pull out that small, light spoon and begin to stir.  When I quickly realize that my batter is getting clumpier, I now have to take a step back and realize that what I had previously experienced may not always be the best application to my current situation.  I have to go back to the drawing board and discover a different stirring instrument.  In this case, my presupposition that a particular size and shape of spoon would always the best stirring tool prevented me from finding a more suitable spoon before I had already worked harder instead of smarter!

·        Presuppositions can be both helpful and harmful.

o   When studying a new topic, such as the Bible, our presuppositions can help us see things from a new perspective or blind our eyes to anything outside of that predetermined set of beliefs that we bring to the study.

o   Presuppositions can cause stumbling blocks and even arguments when trying to talk to other people if we are not aware of them.  They can also cause confusion when trying to wrestle with our own beliefs and we run into contradicting ones in our minds.

o   This is why the speaker highlighted the importance of praying and asking God to properly adjust any presuppositions that will lead us down an incorrect path before ever opening the Bible for study.

o   If we neglect this prayer, when disagreements arise, we are more likely to become dogmatic and judgmental with others and even ourselves rather than loving them as children of God and fellow church members.

·        Since presuppositions are so engrained into the way we think, we may not always recognize them as contributing factors to our conclusions about a subject.

o   The presenter broke down presuppositions into two categories: simple and complex.

§  The example I gave above about the spoon is a simple presupposition because it was easy to identify and was not too difficult to change once it was discovered.

§  A complex presupposition is much more challenging to recognize and to adjust in new situations.  It could include entire beliefs systems that have been developed throughout a person’s lifetime.  For example, a person’s belief about God is shaped by the combination of many different life experiences starting at a very young age before they can even say God’s name.  Depending on how much a person is attached to those beliefs, they can be very difficult to alter or even understand under challenges or questioning.

o   We can never assume that the other person we are talking to about the Bible (or any other topic) shares the same viewpoint or belief even if they are from a similar background or go to the same church.

o   The example the presenter used was how the difference between the presupposition of inspiration versus just interesting stories would affect a reader’s interpretation of the Bible.

§  These two readers would come out with very different conclusions and even opposing views about the plan of salvation.

·        In short, while presuppositions are necessary for brain efficiency, it is important to realize that even though they are sometimes outside of our awareness, they still help shape our beliefs about everything in life, whether we recognize their presence or not.

·        It is also important to for us to ask daily for God’s guidance with them as we encounter various people and situations throughout life's journey.

Hope this helps!

More to come on the other questions you raised.

[tigerwillow]

Part 2 of reply to Stinsonmarri's questions

 

Image of God not being correct…

The presenter was piggy-backing on his statements about presuppositions.  He is saying that not every presupposition that we bring to the Bible is entirely accurate.  We can see this is true in the fact that people who claim to read the same Bible come up with such different conclusions.  Like I mentioned in my previous post, our image of God does not only come from the Bible, but from all kinds of life experiences starting from a very young age.  So when we try to read into the Bible the image of God that we have garnered through our life experience, we have to be very careful that we do not spin the scriptures to fit our own ideas rather that what God is actually trying to say through the writer.

We also have to remember that what we are able to understand now is only a partial view of the image of God.  Quoting from Paul in 1.Corinthians 13:12 – “For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.”   Based on that verse none of us can accurately say that we have the correct (complete) image of God.

 

Theological system being airtight…

What I understood the speaker to be saying on this point is that since we cannot have a complete image of God right now, neither can we have a perfectly infallible theological system.  Yes, we may believe the Bible is infallible, but that does not mean that we accurately understand everything it says and always come up with the right conclusions.  Like the speaker said, our system of theology is passed down to us from various other belief systems and has undergone many changes along the way.  Since Adventism is a relatively recent development in the history of religion, we cannot assume that it all started with us.  It had to get its roots from belief systems that preexisted our beginning, in other words other denominations have heavily influenced most of what we call our fundamental beliefs today.  Like the speaker said, just about the only one that uniquely sets Seventh-days Adventists apart is our belief that there is a heavenly sanctuary which is still carrying on the message of the Old Testament sanctuary.  Every other belief had to come from somewhere else.  He used the tree as an example of how the SDA system of theology has been passed down.  The tree is like the history of religion that has been in practice throughout time.  The apples on the tree represent different doctrines that have been preached at various times in history.  He used the analogy of the pioneers gleaning those different doctrines from the tree of time and picking the best apples they could find (the ones that most closely matched their understanding of the Bible).  They put all those apples into a basket which represents the theological system which we have adopted as a church.  Now those apples are not always good apples, so the bad ones have to get weeded out from time to time.  That is where we get the idea of present truth.  Every phase of religion has been born out of a present truth where new apples are formed and old apples are thrown out.  However we have to be careful of allowing people to do this on their own accord.  God is and always has been in charge of that tree and which apples should grow and which ones should be discarded.  He is also in charge of the basket that we put the apples into, so we have to let our system of theology grow and change as God leads us into further present truth.  Therefore we cannot say that our system of theology is unchangeable or we will be denying God’s authority to work with His church.

Theology (the belief in God) is extremely important because it is the guide that lights our church’s path.  If we did not have theology we would be wandering in this world lost and confused.  Now let me also say that sometimes we as individuals and a church get our priorities mixed up and think that our belief in God is above God Himself.  We must be careful not to allow what we believe about a certain topic to become more important to us than seeking His daily presence in our lives so He can keep our theology straight.

 

Doctrine of Salvation…

I think the speaker is using the word doctrine interchangeably with strongly held belief.  This particular video was just an introduction to how we should approach studying what we believe about salvation so that we can understand it better and share it more clearly with others.  His future videos are going to take us through those steps of how to pray, use the wisdom of the past, and understand the meaning of the scriptures more clearly so that we can get a better grasp on what the Bible really teaches about salvation.

 

Individual perspectives shaping our understanding…

God gave us all different minds for a reason, therefore no one can claim to have all of the truth, but we must depend on others, including Him, to help us gather knowledge in our own unique way and then to test it against the Bible as directed in 1.John 1:4.

But I also want to reiterate that while, yes, it is true that we all have different perspectives which influence how we read and study the Bible; we cannot allow those perspectives to excuse us from prayerfully studying the scriptures out for ourselves as the Holy Spirit guides us.  Neither can we allow them to justify angry attitudes toward others who do not share our perspectives.  Instead we should using that time and energy to pray that God will lead both ourselves and the other person into the light.

Hope this answers your questions and clarifies some of your confusion about the message of the video.

Blessings to you Stinsonmarri!