Religious Employment

[Gregory Matthews]

Religious Employment:  Aubry McMahon applied for a position at World Vision in Customer Service, and was accepted.   World Vision withdrew the offer after it discovered that she was in a same-sex marriage.  She then filed a lawsuit, claiming that she had been discriminated against.  World Vision defended itself, claiming that as a religious organization it could require all employees to abide by its set of doctrinal beliefs and lifestyle.  The courts have rejected the position of World Vision.  The following ink, Dated December 1, 2024, comments on the decision of the courts and informs of the next hearing that will determine the financial payments that must be made to her.

https://wng.org/roundups/world-vision-loses-third-round-in-lgbtq-hiring-case-1701473095

 

[Gustave]

I think in 8 years (or even less) folks will look back on this type of case as an unfortunate anomaly of history - and the conditions will be such that the last thing a gay couple would want to do is force their way into a religious institution that they know doesn't approve of their lifestyle. This is just another story about another "professional victim". 

[GayatfootofCross]

2 hours ago, Gustave said:

I think in 8 years (or even less) folks will look back on this type of case as an unfortunate anomaly of history - and the conditions will be such that the last thing a gay couple would want to do is force their way into a religious institution that they know doesn't approve of their lifestyle. This is just another story about another "professional victim". 

God begs for religious instutions to be like Jesus

[Gustave]

8 hours ago, GayatfootofCross said:

God begs for religious instutions to be like Jesus

I find no examples of homosexuals (or Gentiles for that matter) that served in any capacity of Israel's religious institutions. True, as a general rule, Gentiles were not expected to observe the ceremonial laws of Judaism but it's a bridge to far to suggest that an ancient example of the O.P. can be found in the Old Covenant or the New. 

I do have friends that are gay that I've got to know quite well and not one of them expresses the lust to search out a job at a religious entity knowing full well the scandal it would generate for the institution. This type of tactic (AKA professional victimhood ) is mostly out of the camp of "liberal democrats". Perhaps I'm just speaking as one who happens to only know "log-cabin conservatives" and that's why I have the views that I do. 

In any event much of this kind of stuff will find its terminus in the next several years and I for one look forward to observing it. 

Some will falsely claim I'm homophobic and a bigot but the reality is that's not the case at all - I just don't want kids exposed to sexual content (disordered or natural). I also don't think it's appropriate for a religious business to be required to employ individuals who act in a way inconsistent with the religious body. 

The thing that you may find amazing is that the few gay friends I have agree with me - but again - these friends are conservative and not liberal democrats. 

 

[bonnie1962]

Comments like this in these circumstances....God begs for religious instutions to be like Jesus...is designed to shame people into accepting any type of behavior and call it Christian. Acceptance to the LGBTQIA community is not sufficient, When that particular lifestyle is viewed as equal to and in some cases exceeds that of hertersexual life style they will have achieved their goal. Just as here rarely is an opportunity missed to push a alternative lifestyle and the unchrist like behavior of those stiff necked straight people.

 

[GayatfootofCross]

2 hours ago, Gustave said:

I find no examples of homosexuals (or Gentiles for that matter) that served in any capacity of Israel's religious institutions. True, as a general rule, Gentiles were not expected to observe the ceremonial laws of Judaism but it's a bridge to far to suggest that an ancient example of the O.P. can be found in the Old Covenant or the New. 

I do have friends that are gay that I've got to know quite well and not one of them expresses the lust to search out a job at a religious entity knowing full well the scandal it would generate for the institution. This type of tactic (AKA professional victimhood ) is mostly out of the camp of "liberal democrats". Perhaps I'm just speaking as one who happens to only know "log-cabin conservatives" and that's why I have the views that I do. 

In any event much of this kind of stuff will find its terminus in the next several years and I for one look forward to observing it. 

Some will falsely claim I'm homophobic and a bigot but the reality is that's not the case at all - I just don't want kids exposed to sexual content (disordered or natural). I also don't think it's appropriate for a religious business to be required to employ individuals who act in a way inconsistent with the religious body. 

The thing that you may find amazing is that the few gay friends I have agree with me - but again - these friends are conservative and not liberal democrats. 

 

hush

[Gustave]

I don't take pleasure in the displeasure of others - but what's going to happen to LGBT / Liberal ideology - I'm going to enjoy watching it unfold. I'm thinking it will be like watching a discovery channel show where a snake constricts something and then slowly swallows it. It didn't have to be this way but that's the way the left wanted it - so be it. 

[Gregory Matthews]

I am going to chime in here:  The issues involved here are complex, and speaking frankly, in some ways equally affect Catholics and Adventists.

We both operate schools at all levels of education.  Every employee in those schools has a potential impact on the students.  From that perspective, all, to include janitors as well as teachers of history, my rightfully be required to be members of the sponsoring Church.

I do not know if the Catholic Church has ever owned either a gasoline station or a supermarket.   However, the SDA Church has owned such.  Those were intended to serve the public at large.  I am not certain that a reasonable case could be made for a requirement for all employees to be members of a specific denomination.

The issue of hospitals is important to both Catholics and Adventists.  Hospitals are owned by both Churches.  Differences exist between how Adventists and Catholics want to run their hospitals.  Yet, each may have a religious component to the services that they provide.   The problem is that the government determines whether or not a hospital can be established in a specific location.  So, if a hospital is allowed in a local area, that has religious restrictions as to some care, no other hospital may be allo0wed in that area and only limited clinical services will be provided.

All I am saying is:  Some issues of religious liberty do not have easy answers.

 

 

[bonnie1962]

For many it is not a question of religious liberty as most view that. Positions are knowingly sought out and after hire make a legal issue out of their employment. Slowly chipping away. Most issues could easily be handled if the question of Sabbath requirement was right up front and clarified.

 

[Gustave]

1 minute ago, bonnie1962 said:

For many it is not a question of religious liberty as most view that. Positions are knowingly sought out and after hire make a legal issue out of their employment. Slowly chipping away. Most issues could easily be handled if the question of Sabbath requirement was right up front and clarified.

 

Did I miss something - I thought that the issue here was an individual applying to a organization that had a stated code of conduct expectations. I'm sure there are business that are owned and operated by members of the Anglican communion who celebrate men play acting as women and everything else in-between. 

In any event a person who works in the medical or law enforcement fields is likely going to have to work on any day of the week, security guards often are required to work on any day of the week. Also I.T. staff that support the aforementioned as well as retail businesses. Now that I think about it Pastors are required to work on any day of the week and off hours (deathbed and emergencies). 

A while back there was a bakery in Seattle that was owned by a Christian who refused to make a cake for a gay wedding. Not that I'm proud of it but years ago I played a practical joke on an unsavory friend of mine by getting him a birthday cake that had a farmer "helping a sheep over a fence", it was an elaborate cake made by a master baker and cake artist. The bakery was called "The erotic bakery" in the U-district and these folks would make a cake for anyone, period.

Why would a gay person demand a known devout Christian make a queer cake when there is a bakery literally a couple miles away that can accommodate any request, a bakery that is known for making wedding cakes, prank cakes, etc? 

Pastor Matthews brings up solid points about schools and hospitals and I think that moving forward religious rights will have better protections. 

 

[bonnie1962]

Nope don't think yo missed a thing. The direction veered off with Gods want all religious institutions to be like Jesus. To me implying  in this instance that not accepting everyone regardless of their  lifestye is unChristlike. Wasnt it Jesus dealing with sexual sin told the woman at the well, Go and don't do this anymore.

[GayatfootofCross]

1 hour ago, Gustave said:

I don't take pleasure in the displeasure of others - but what's going to happen to LGBT / Liberal ideology - I'm going to enjoy watching it unfold. I'm thinking it will be like watching a discovery channel show where a snake constricts something and then slowly swallows it. It didn't have to be this way but that's the way the left wanted it - so be it. 

well hush your god down

a vengefil wrathful God Faced by All honest Soul Here ❤️ 

and it makes honest souls weep 

.....

yes God is very angry (serious)

i fell in love wuth a very different God

not terribly upset cause HE KNOWS THINGS 

He lives on a big thrONE  with All His children by His giant bosom

actually in His heart ❤️ 

imagine a huge long giant table floating in the stratosphere  perfectly  round like a giant wedding ring 

people feasting infront of the Lamb  ..All Together  with great music playing

The Eagles ?

flying 

a God Who is in romances  and answers prayers and ..and .. and ❤️ 

has cried and groaned for Humanity since He  was misunderstood

by a Liar and Cheat!

who is always unkind how he speaks of others here

Gustave ,,

God has had His Loving eye on your Face for a very long time

you must forgive your ways

He already Has ❤️

deep depth Grace got youself to see that deep depth grace in Others

 SEE we dont have allot of time

u must be about the Fathers Business

can you hear their cry?

 

[Gustave]

Gayatfootofcross,

I harbor no ill will towards you or any alternative people. I've often felt compassion for folks such as yourself simply by contemplating my own life. When I was in the military the extent of my Christianity was what was printed on my dog tags. I slept around with countless women, married and single - I was basically on a sexual safari. Years later I realized how wrong I was and settled down, started going to Church regularly. 

A gay person in Christianity isn't afforded much of an off ramp like heterosexuals are - I recognize this and have thought how would I react to this situation if I were gay - you have my sincere sympathies for this. 

Because I'm convinced that my own Faith Tradition holds the fullness of the truth ( IF I were gay ) I would be prevented by conscience from just joining a Church that condones and celebrates gay marriage (like the Anglicans). I acknowledge you may feel the same way and may be prevented by your conscience from just joining another Church that has no issues with a gay lifestyle. I don't know what to say about this to you other than I'm sorry. 

The conservative Christians I've talked with feel the same way that I do - it's likely the reason I've had zero issues with maintaining friendships with gay folks I've gotten to know. 

I'm just saying all this because I don't want you or other people who may be gay and read my posts thinking that I'm salivating with anticipation about how all the fags will be rounded up and exterminated. That's not where I'm coming from at all. 

I do believe that God loves every person infinity more than I love my own Son and Wife - this means that God's Grace and charity extends beyond my capacity to understand. 

My main beef with the LGBT movement was how far the ideology was pushed - this I believe is the evil part of it and as I said before its the death of that part of it that I look forward to. 

[GayatfootofCross]

1 hour ago, Gustave said:

Gayatfootofcross,

I harbor no ill will towards you or any alternative people. I've often felt compassion for folks such as yourself simply by contemplating my own life. When I was in the military the extent of my Christianity was what was printed on my dog tags. I slept around with countless women, married and single - I was basically on a sexual safari. Years later I realized how wrong I was and settled down, started going to Church regularly. 

A gay person in Christianity isn't afforded much of an off ramp like heterosexuals are - I recognize this and have thought how would I react to this situation if I were gay - you have my sincere sympathies for this. 

Because I'm convinced that my own Faith Tradition holds the fullness of the truth ( IF I were gay ) I would be prevented by conscience from just joining a Church that condones and celebrates gay marriage (like the Anglicans). I acknowledge you may feel the same way and may be prevented by your conscience from just joining another Church that has no issues with a gay lifestyle. I don't know what to say about this to you other than I'm sorry. 

The conservative Christians I've talked with feel the same way that I do - it's likely the reason I've had zero issues with maintaining friendships with gay folks I've gotten to know. 

I'm just saying all this because I don't want you or other people who may be gay and read my posts thinking that I'm salivating with anticipation about how all the fags will be rounded up and exterminated. That's not where I'm coming from at all. 

I do believe that God loves every person infinity more than I love my own Son and Wife - this means that God's Grace and charity extends beyond my capacity to understand. 

My main beef with the LGBT movement was how far the ideology was pushed - this I believe is the evil part of it and as I said before its the death of that part of it that I look forward to. 

GBU

between my typing skills  and wording i have enough miscoomunication  skills

and anytime someone can patient  me im over the moon

so thanku

maybe i can put it this way

when God looks up at Gustave (great name btw)

or The Wonderer or Me He just sees individuals

not a catagory of sexuality or political party (usa) or classes ect

He just sees broken hearts that need mending

its an inside job

We All are the Same 

there is so much Rest (Sabbath) in that

lovely to talk

thanku

❤️

[Gustave]

I agree, God sees each of His Children as individuals & while my particular sins may be abhorrent to others they may have sins abhorrent to me - which is why every day in Church the following prayer is said by everyone present and in unison. 

"I confess to almighty God and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have greatly sinned in my thoughts and in my words, in what I've done and in what I have failed to do, through my fault, through my fault, through MY most grievous fault; therefore I ask the blessed Mary ever-virgin, all the angels and saints, and YOU my brothers and sisters, to pray FOR ME to the Lord our God." 

[bonnie1962]

I don't think for most of us that object to the LGBTQIA  lifestyle believe that this "sin" is worse than all other sins. But it is unique in that it parades this lifestyle and belief for all to see as just another equally valid lifestyle. Trying and succeeding I might add to giving it a "christian" basis and legitimacy on par with heterosexual marriage. It is flaunted in your face in posts and in the workplace in a manner that is designed to make those that object or feel that lifestyle is wrong look like unhinged homophobes and bigots. Where other sins are not viewed with pride and claiming part of Gods plan  the LGBTQIA is. I have friends that are/were both alcoholics and lesbians. They did not flaunt either sin.

[Gustave]

3 hours ago, bonnie1962 said:

I don't think for most of us that object to the LGBTQIA  lifestyle believe that this "sin" is worse than all other sins. But it is unique in that it parades this lifestyle and belief for all to see as just another equally valid lifestyle. Trying and succeeding I might add to giving it a "christian" basis and legitimacy on par with heterosexual marriage. It is flaunted in your face in posts and in the workplace in a manner that is designed to make those that object or feel that lifestyle is wrong look like unhinged homophobes and bigots. Where other sins are not viewed with pride and claiming part of Gods plan  the LGBTQIA is. I have friends that are/were both alcoholics and lesbians. They did not flaunt either sin.

Exactly! I wouldn't support parading or celebrating stealing, murder or adultery - in like manner I don't support, celebrate / parade homosexual acts. I do feel sorry for folks that are affected with same sex attraction because (in Historic) Christianity there ISN'T an off-ramp for homosexuals to have Sacramental Marriage such as there is for heterosexuals. 

Using myself as an example despite my debauchery from age 18 to 35 years after which I felt compelled to start living a Christian life and be accountable, I found the woman of my dreams and got married. A homosexual who engaged in the same type of sin (fornication) I did and wants to settle down and be married to the same sex doesn't have that option if they are Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox & presumably Seventh-day Adventist. 

As I said earlier if I were gay my conscious would not allow me to join a Church that condones same sex marriage because (at least to me) joining another Church I knew wasn't the True Church would be a grave or mortal sin - thus, I couldn't go join the Methodist or Anglican Church - there would be no point - it would be like going to a Big Foot believers meeting knowing full well there is no such thing as Big Foot. I don't know what to do about this problem but acknowledge it exists. 

I still maintain that anyone who subjects a child to a drag queen story hour should have their kids taken away and themselves be sterilized - other than infuriating liberal Democrats there is zero downside to this type of law. 

[Gregory Matthews]

Just to review the official SDA position:

*  All are welcome to worship with us who intend to worship in peace.  I was once a member of a SDA congregation that had a homosexual couple who regularly attended, but were never  members.  The congregation welcomed them, and they accepted their status of not being able to become members.

*  Homosexuals who wish to join a SDA congregation must live a celibate life in order to be a member

*  SDA clergy who perform a homosexual marriage are likely to be expelled from SDA ministry, and it is likely that their ordination will be revoked.

 

 

 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

1 hour ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Just to review the official SDA position:

*  All are welcome to worship with us who intend to worship in peace.  I was once a member of a SDA congregation that had a homosexual couple who regularly attended, but were never  members.  The congregation welcomed them, and they accepted their status of not being able to become members.

*  Homosexuals who wish to join a SDA congregation must live a celibate life in order to be a member

*  SDA clergy who perform a homosexual marriage are likely to be expelled from SDA ministry, and it is likely that their ordination will be revoked.

 

 

 

 

Us Queers are not impressed with your table scraps

There is A Feast being prepared by Agape

halla loo Ya

 

Walking through the veils of open fire Looking back at ghosts we left unnamed Breathing in the strength of my fathers Holding the hopeless while the fearless are standing afraid Hallelujah Hallelujah Now I'm dancing through the wreckage left behind Hallelujah Hallelujah I was raised to always hold my head up high Now I'm rocking in a free world Never willed away without a fight Yeah, we'll survive the weeping of the sirens Even with the pain, beauty still remains inside Hallelujah Hallelujah Yeah, I'm dancing through the wreckage left behind Hallelujah Hallelujah Side by side, let's keep our hope alive We're not standing, yeah, we're not standing alone We're not standing, yeah, we're not standing alone We're not standing, yeah, we're not standing alone Hallelujah Hallelujah Yeah, I'm dancing through the
wreckage left behind Hallelujah Hallelujah I was raised to always hold my head up high Hallelujah Hallelujah Now I'm dancing through the wreckage left behind Hallelujah Hallelujah Side by side, let's keep our hope alive Hallelujah Hallelujah We can be strong, there can be no wrong Let them try me

 

 

 

[Gustave]

1 hour ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Just to review the official SDA position:

*  All are welcome to worship with us who intend to worship in peace.  I was once a member of a SDA congregation that had a homosexual couple who regularly attended, but were never  members.  The congregation welcomed them, and they accepted their status of not being able to become members.

*  Homosexuals who wish to join a SDA congregation must live a celibate life in order to be a member

*  SDA clergy who perform a homosexual marriage are likely to be expelled from SDA ministry, and it is likely that their ordination will be revoked.

 

 

 

 

I believe that's how it works for area of the fish tank as well. 

[Gustave]

43 minutes ago, GayatfootofCross said:

Us Queers are not impressed with your table scraps

There is A Feast being prepared by Agape

halla loo Ya

 

Walking through the veils of open fire Looking back at ghosts we left unnamed Breathing in the strength of my fathers Holding the hopeless while the fearless are standing afraid Hallelujah Hallelujah Now I'm dancing through the wreckage left behind Hallelujah Hallelujah I was raised to always hold my head up high Now I'm rocking in a free world Never willed away without a fight Yeah, we'll survive the weeping of the sirens Even with the pain, beauty still remains inside Hallelujah Hallelujah Yeah, I'm dancing through the wreckage left behind Hallelujah Hallelujah Side by side, let's keep our hope alive We're not standing, yeah, we're not standing alone We're not standing, yeah, we're not standing alone We're not standing, yeah, we're not standing alone Hallelujah Hallelujah Yeah, I'm dancing through the
wreckage left behind Hallelujah Hallelujah I was raised to always hold my head up high Hallelujah Hallelujah Now I'm dancing through the wreckage left behind Hallelujah Hallelujah Side by side, let's keep our hope alive Hallelujah Hallelujah We can be strong, there can be no wrong Let them try me

 

 

 

I feel sorry for you and other same sex attracted people - While you would be welcomed in the Catholic Church (to attend Mass) communion would be out of the question - it sounds as if you are also welcome to attend an SDA Church but likely not welcomed to take communion (my guess). 

I know its easy for me to say but if you have no intention of living celibate and obviously your personal theology differs from SDAism theology about the gay issues what would be the problem for you to worship at a Church that celebrates same sex unions? 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

As to the SDA position on Communion: At an earlier time in SDA life, Communion was restricted to baptized members of the SDA Church.  With the passage of time, it was thought that Christians from other backgrounds should not be refused Communion.  So, Gustave, you would likely to be allowed to take Communion in a SDA Church today.  The end result is that probably many SDA congregations allow anyone who wishes to take Communion.  I cannot say that such is 100%.

[GayatfootofCross]

i can always wash the men's feet

A Humble Servant of The Most High ❤️ 

 

...get in line!

 

[Gregory Matthews]

To those who do not understand what Gay said above:  The SDA practice of Communion begins with the washing of the feet of another.  Note:  The Pope also does this in a yearly ceremony.  In SDA practice, this foot washing occurs prior to partaking of the elements.  This occurs in separate locations.

Historically men have washed the feet of men and women have washed the feet of women.  In the present day married people and engaged couples are welcome to wash each other's feet.

It should be noted that SDAs do not require that one participate in the washing of another's feet in order to receive the elements of Communion.  

[GayatfootofCross]

11 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

To those who do not understand what Gay said above:  The SDA practice of Communion begins with the washing of the feet of another.  Note:  The Pope also does this in a yearly ceremony.  In SDA practice, this foot washing occurs prior to partaking of the elements.  This occurs in separate locations.

Historically men have washed the feet of men and women have washed the feet of women.  In the present day married people and engaged couples are welcome to wash each other's feet.

It should be noted that SDAs do not require that one participate in the washing of another's feet in order to receive the elements of Communion.  

thanku

my big mouth has wondered outload to the skellingtons at church

"where is it the bible to abandon OBVIOUSE  Jesus example??

it isnt  marriage therapy! ?
watch the church get angrier?

..its all the same spirit of "we will not repent/surrender"

huh