Does God make deals?

[Robert]

What if someone said, "God if you do such and such then I'll do such and such"? Does God make deals? Yes?

[Neil D]

What if someone said, "God if you do such and such then I'll do such and such"? Does God make deals? Yes?

Occassionally, but deals made usually show our weakness....

[Gail]

Good question!

My husband tried this when his daughter was afflicted with cancer. It didn't work... :(

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Rob,

This is what came to mind,

Quote:

2Ki 20:1 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live. 2 Then he turned his face to the wall, and prayed unto the LORD, saying, 3 I beseech thee, O LORD, remember now how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore. 4 And it came to pass, before Isaiah was gone out into the middle court, that the word of the LORD came to him, saying, 20:5 Turn again, and tell Hezekiah the captain of my people, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee: on the third day thou shalt go up unto the house of the LORD. 6 And I will add unto thy days fifteen years; and I will deliver thee and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria; and I will defend this city for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake.

I also think of Samson just before he died, but both of these are not really deals with God. I can't think of one from the Bible at this time and if I can't find them in there then I can't say that God does.

Norman

[Amelia]

Isnt making a "deal" with God, more like bribery? How many of the people who do try to deal with God, actually follow through on their deals?

[Robert]

I can't think of one from the Bible at this time and if I can't find them in there then I can't say that God does.

How about Gen 32:24?

Then Jacob was left alone, and a man [angel?] wrestled with him until daybreak. 25 And when he saw that he had not prevailed against him, he touched the socket of his thigh; so the socket of Jacob’s thigh was dislocated while he wrestled with him. 26 Then he said, “Let me go, for the dawn is breaking.” But he said, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.” 27 So he said to him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Jacob.” 28 And he said, “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed.” 29 Then Jacob asked him and said, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And he blessed him there.

And don't forget Gen 28:18

So Jacob rose early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put under his head and set it up as a pillar, and poured oil on its top. 19 And he called the name of that place Bethel; however, previously the name of the city had been Luz. 20 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will keep me on this journey that I take, and will give me food to eat and garments to wear, 21 and I return to my father’s house in safety, then the Lord will be my God. 22 “And this stone, which I have set up as a pillar, will be God’s house; and of all that Thou dost give me I will surely give a tenth to Thee.”

[Robert]

Isnt making a "deal" with God, more like bribery? How many of the people who do try to deal with God, actually follow through on their deals?

Good point, but does He meet us where we are at from time to time?

[Robert]

Occasionally, but deals made usually show our weakness....

Been there, done that.

All of us have besetting sins. Mine tends to show up when I have an allergy induced migraine.

When Paul says, "The good that I would do I do not..." well, I'm getting tired of traveling that road on a particular sin so I made a deal with God: If you prevent me from these migraines I'll give you the glory. Isn't that what the health message is about - clear thinking and hence an edge to live above the clamors of our natures?

Anyway, God didn't reply when I made the deal. So how do I know that He agrees with my proposition?

Robert

[Stan]

What if someone said, "God if you do such and such then I'll do such and such"? Does God make deals? Yes?

Some times that feels like all we have to off him, doesn't it?

[Robert]

Good question!

My husband tried this when his daughter was afflicted with cancer. It didn't work...

That's the problem...how does one know if God has said "yes" to a person's request? Waiting until someone dies isn't a good way to find out.

Robert

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Rob,

I read what you said and was not sure of either account. Especially the one is Gen 28, it didn't sound like a deal but more like an acknowledgement. If God does this and that, then He is my God and I will give to Him.

So I looked at PP and found this which makes a lot of sense.

Quote:

"And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it. "In accordance with the custom of commemorating important events, Jacob set up a memorial of God's mercy, that whenever he should pass that way he might tarry at this sacred spot to worship the Lord. And he called the place Bethel, or the "house of God." With deep gratitude he repeated the promise that God's presence would be with him; and then he made the solemn vow, "If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the Lord be my God: and this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that Thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto Thee."

Jacob was not here seeking to make terms with God. The Lord had already promised him prosperity, and this vow was the outflow of a heart filled with gratitude for the assurance of God's love and mercy. Jacob felt that God had claims upon him which he must acknowledge, and that the special tokens of divine favor granted him demanded a return. So does every blessing bestowed upon us call for a response to the Author of all our mercies.

And this was said concerning Gen 32:24

Quote:

The patriarch now discerned the character of his antagonist. He knew that he had been in conflict with a heavenly messenger, and this was why his almost superhuman effort had not gained the victory. It was Christ, "the Angel of the covenant," who had revealed Himself to Jacob. The patriarch was now disabled and suffering the keenest pain, but he would not loosen his hold. All penitent and broken, he clung to the Angel; "he wept, and made supplication" (Hosea 12:4), pleading for a blessing. He must have the assurance that his sin was pardoned. Physical pain was not sufficient to divert his mind from this object. His determination grew stronger, his faith more earnest and persevering, until the very last. The Angel tried to release Himself; He urged, "Let Me go, for the day breaketh;" but Jacob answered, "I will not let Thee go, except Thou bless me." Had this been a boastful, presumptuous confidence, Jacob would have been instantly destroyed; but his was the assurance of one who confesses his own unworthiness, yet trusts the faithfulness of a covenant-keeping God.

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Rob,

Quote:

All of us have besetting sins. Mine tends to show up when I have an allergy induced migraine.

Sounds like someone is addicted to cheese :-( Those are some of the symptoms.

Rob, I've shared this before and it's really a small thing but it really helped me understand how God works. After I returned to God I had a lot of harmful and bad habits that I developed in those 10 years. One of the things that I just couldn't remember to do when I sat down to eat was to pray. After the 2nd time I thought well I just remember next time. Then it kept happening over and over and I began to wonder if there was something wrong with me. So I said that's it I not going to forget next time and guess what I ended up doing, yep, I forgot.

Now I was stunned and in disbelief that I could not remember to do that. Then I prayed to the Lord and said, "Father, I can't remember to do even this simple thing please help me to pray before I eat" I immediately believed taht He wouls do it and this relief and joy ran through me and I just knew He'd do it.

So the next time that I sat down to eat I prayed and man it was such a joy and then I understood the key to victory in all other areas in my life. That victory was not mine I didn't grit my teeth and all of a sudden my mind was better. This was from the Lord. So from that day on I grew to new victories when ever I decided that I had enough of trying to overcome habits in my life.

Norman

[Gail]

Is it our place to do that (make deals with God)? Isn't that a bit presumptuous?

[Gerr]

Of course, God makes deals, but usually on His own terms, not ours. The Covenant is such a deal. He says, if you do thus & so, I will do such & such. Isn't that a deal?

Gerry

[Clio]

It's a deal. And Abraham beseeched Him mightily on behalf of Sodom and Gomorrah... Abba agreed if 5 righteous could be found to spare the cities.

5 righteous were not found, the cities were not spared.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Clio,

Quote:

It's a deal. And Abraham beseeched Him mightily on behalf of Sodom and Gomorrah... Abba agreed if 5 righteous could be found to spare the cities.

5 righteous were not found, the cities were not spared.

I don't see that as a deal, Abraham asked God if He found 50 and on down to 5 would He destroy those cities. God simply responded and said no I won't do that. This was not a bartering session for Abraham. He was really wanting to know. After all wasn't his nephew, Lot and his family there?

Unless I missed something I don't see that as a deal.

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Concerning God making deals.

God has made us an offer. We were dying and had no way out and He has made a covenant with us in His Son. The deal is accept His Son and live or reject His Son and continue on the path of death.

God has one thing that He has set out to accomplish and He will do it. It is called the restoration or glorification of His Character. That involves several things, One: our salvation, two: the containment of sin. three: the eradication of death and four: the removal of all traces of sin in the universe, including all who chose sin rather than Christ.

Making deals with God seems almost petty when you think about the issues of this battle. God has called His children to stand with Him in this mission and we are co-workers together with Christ. With that background in mind, what kind of deals would we want to make? What kind of deals would God want to make?

Our callings and mission is different from our brothers and sisters who have lived in the past. To us is given great light and power beyond what was seen at Pentecost will be given to us.

We should take our calling and mission more seriously (with a love for the lost) and in doing so we would find that our struggles and battles would be of a different nature. Rather than fighting the losing battles we are now, we would be engaged and using our energies praying for lost souls and working for their salvation.

The joy that would come from this cooperation with Christ would strengthen us to overcome the battles we are loosing now. That would negate the deals we may think we want to make now.

Norman