hobie Posted March 25 Posted March 25 There is a Investigative Judgment, or Pre-Advent Judgment, as distinct from the Final Judgment of the Second Death, which scripture shows begins before the Second Coming as the saints cannot simply go to heaven without a determination of their standing. Man is not immortal of self and doesnt go to heaven at death, and there is not any kind of judgment immediately after death. We see that it begins with the believers as the Bible speaks of an Investigative Judgment for the house of God, which is Christians. 1 Peter 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ? We also see another text on where the Bible speaks about a Judgment Day...... Revelation 14:6-7 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. We see the angel proclaim that the 'everlasting gospel' message contains, the judgment, and we see what Christ says.. Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. And we find much more.. 1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Now as Jesus will bring His reward with Him at His coming, the judgment of the church or saints needs only to take place shortly prior to the Second Coming. Now if you look the Investigative Judgment comes and we the saints will be judged before the Second Coming and then after the wicked, so its everyone. Lets take a look at scripture: Daniel 7.9-10 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. (22) the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given in favor of the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Matthew 12.36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Romans 14.10-12 We shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 2 Cor. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to what he has done, whether it be good or bad. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God, so all believers must repent and be converted, not just say they are... Acts 3.18-19 But those things, which God foretold by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he has so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Acts 17:30-31 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent: Because he has appointed a day, So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom he has ordained; He has given assurance of this to all men, by raising him from the dead. Romans 2:15-16 . . .Which show the work of the law written in their hearts,...In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. The Bible clearly indicts that all will appear before the judgment throne of God, those who are judged worthy by the blood of the lamb, have His robe of righteousness, and will be taken to the heavenly kingdom at the Second Coming. The others will receive the judgment of condemnation, and receive their punishment in the lake of fire at the Second Death. Quote
hobie Posted March 25 Author Posted March 25 We see the judgement scene given in Daniel... Daniel 7:9-10 9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. Now the judgement begins in the house of God as we saw in 1 Peter.. 1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? But there will also be judgement on "them that obey not the gospel of God", which are not from the house of God. We see it in Revelation 20 after the 1000 years when the books are opened and all the universe can see that God is just, and God is vindicated in His justice.. Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And we see that either our sins be covered by the blood of the lamb, or our names will be blotted out of the Lambs Book of Life. Exodus 32:33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. We see what Peter says. Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. We see where David acknowledged his sin and asked God to forgive him and to blot out his sins. Psalm 51:4 1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. 2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. 3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. 4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. And not only blot out his sin, but to cleanse and create a new heart. Psalm 51:9-10 9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. So there are records which show what every person has done, and the names of the saved are put in the book of life, and Christ gives this promise.. Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Quote
hobie Posted March 25 Author Posted March 25 So we see that God is seeing the transgression and sins of His people and it comes up against what happens, we must face the judgement seat of Christs.. 2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. So everyone has a case pending in judgment, the saints and the wicked, whether living or dead. Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: And what is going to be brought up at the judgement.. Jeremiah 2:22 22 For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord God. Malachi 3:16 16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name. So what will be the standard used.. James 2:10-12 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. And what is the level to be reached.. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. So clearly, even one transgression on one point is as the same as being guilty of all, as the Law is based on the character of God, it is the Law of Love, for God and for your fellowman, and to break or transgress it leaves you with the wages of sin pending, so the church clearly must face Christ and His judgement before the Second Coming to decide this, and see if we are covered by the blood of the lamb. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Quote
hobie Posted March 25 Author Posted March 25 So how do the saints receive the gift and be cleansed by the blood of the lamb and be perfect as required.. Romans 3:25 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. We see that we need to confess our sins, recognize what is pending if we dont give them up and place them with Christ for a pardon, as at the Second Coming He comes with our reward. 2 Timothy 4:7-8 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. God is currently reviewing the lives of every person who has ever lived to determine their ultimate fate, to see who are the sheep versus the goats when Christ returns. So we see that the Investigative Judgment, what must happen before the saints receive their reward, is in the Bible. We see that God will judge every person who has ever lived to determine who will be saved and who will be lost, the church first before the Second Coming and then those with sin at the Great White Throne judgement. Now, as Adventist we hold that the Investigative Judgement could not begin till the prophetic work of atonement began in the Most Holy Place. Here is from a sermon from former GC President Ted Wilson. "After Christ ascended to heaven, our Savior began His work as our High Priest. Hebrews 9:24 tells us “Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.” In The Great Controversy, we read, “The ministration of the priest throughout the year in the first apartment of the sanctuary, ‘within the veil’ which formed the door and separated the holy place from the outer court, represents the work of ministration upon which Christ entered at His ascension.” As part of his daily work in the earthly sanctuary, the priest presented before God the blood of the sin offering, and the incense which ascended, representing the prayers of the people. In the same way, we are told, “Christ [did] plead His blood before the Father in behalf of sinners, and present before Him also, with the precious fragrance of His own righteousness, the prayers of penitent believers. Such was the work of ministration in the first apartment of the sanctuary in heaven” (pp. 420, 421). The apostle Paul wrote in Hebrews 6:19,20 — “This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever . . .” Hebrews 9:12 describes Jesus entering the heavenly sanctuary: “neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us” (KJV). Inspiration tells us, that “for eighteen centuries this work of ministration continued in the first apartment of the sanctuary. The blood of Christ, pleaded in behalf of penitent believers, secured their pardon and acceptance with the Father, yet their sins still remained upon the books of record” (The Great Controversy, p. 421). Furthermore, just as there was a work of atonement at the end of the year in the typical service of the earthly sanctuary, “so before Christ’s work for the redemption of men is completed there is a work of atonement for the removal of sin from the sanctuary” (The Great Controversy, p. 421). The pen of Inspiration assures us, “This is the service which began when the 2300 days ended. At that time, as foretold by Daniel the prophet, our High Priest entered the most holy, to perform the last division of His solemn work—to cleanse the sanctuary” (The Great Controversy, p. 421). Just as in the days of Israel the sins of the people were by faith placed upon the sin offering and through its blood transferred, symbolically, to the earthly sanctuary, so in the new covenant the sins of those who repent are, “by faith, placed upon Christ and transferred, in fact, to the heavenly sanctuary” (The Great Controversy, p. 421). Furthermore, just as the cleansing of the earthly sanctuary was accomplished by the removal of the sins transferred there, so the actual cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary will be accomplished by the removal, or “blotting out,” of the sins which are recorded there. For this to be accomplished, however, “there must be an examination of the books of record to determine who, through repentance of sin and faith in Christ, are entitled to the benefits of His atonement. The cleansing of the sanctuary therefore involves a work of investigation—a work of judgment” (The Great Controversy, p. 422). We understand this judgment must take place before Christ’s Second Coming, because Jesus tells us in Revelation 22:12 that when He comes, His reward is with Him, “to give to every one according to his work.” ”...https://interamerica.org/2024/02/christ-in-the-sanctuary/ Quote
hobie Posted March 25 Author Posted March 25 So now comes the question of when the Investigative Judgment began, and this is point of contention. Some believe that it began at point that Eve believed the serpents lies and took the fruit, others hold it began at the time of Christ's ascension, while we have what Seventh-day Adventists believe, that the investigative judgment began on October 22, 1844. This date is significant because it was the day that William Miller, a Baptist preacher, predicted that Christ would return to earth and many were disappointed when it didnt happen. We see a history of what happened.. "The Millerites spent the great day watching for the Lord, but their hopes were crushed. The Great Disappointment shattered the Millerite movement. Many concluded that they had been entirely deceived, but a few clung to Miller’s interpretation of the time prophecies from the book of Daniel. Because Christ had obviously not returned in a literal sense, they began exploring additional explanations. Had the prophecy been fulfilled spiritually rather than literally? On the morning after the disappointment, a Millerite by the name of Hiram Edson saw a vision of Jesus ministering in the heavenly sanctuary, and he concluded that Daniel 8:14 predicted the movement of Christ from the first to the second apartment of the heavenly sanctuary. As Edson and others studied the Old Testament sacrificial system, they determined that October 22, 1844, was the beginning of the anti-typical Day of Atonement—that Christ was ministering in the heavenly sanctuary in a manner similar to the priests on the Day of Atonement. For the small group who insisted on the validity of Miller’s interpretations, the yearly Days of Atonement were symbolic events (or types) of the reality (anti-type). Instead of considering Christ’s death on the cross as the anti-type (reality) prefigured by the Day of Atonement, they shifted their focus from the cross to the heavenly sanctuary. In the winter of 1844, seventeen-year-old Ellen Harmon, who would later become Ellen White, began having visions that gradually confirmed Edson’s spiritual interpretation of the Great Disappointment. She strongly supported Miller’s prophetic calculations, making William Miller the father of Seventh-day Adventist theology in the sense that all SDA theology stems from the premise that the cleansing of the sanctuary began on October 22, 1844. As Ellen White stated, “The correct understanding of the ministration in the heavenly sanctuary is the foundation of our faith” (Evangelism, 221). Hiram Edson and certain other members of the Adventist movement were guided into the belief that the event predicted by the Bible in Daniel, was not the return of Christ, but rather Christ's entrance into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary. Adventists came to believe that the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary involves a work of judgment, as the Bible clearly shows. So they studied more deeply and came to the understanding of the Investigative Judgment or Pre-Advent Judgment began to teach that a judgment had begun in 1844 when Christ entered the Most Holy Place. So from this understanding came the belief that an "investigative judgment" was taking place in heaven, in which the lives of professed believers would pass in review before God, and as we can see it is scriptural. Quote
Joe Knapp Posted March 27 Posted March 27 Okay, this is all what the church has been teaching for over a hundred years. But the point I bring up, is that we are at the end of the investigative judgment, where the living are now being judged. phkrause 1 Quote
Hanseng Posted March 27 Posted March 27 Might be useful to consider what Hebrews 9 and 10 have to say about all this. In brief, Hebrews contrasts the Jewish Day of Atonement with judgement in Christ. Hebrews notes that the Jews had to endure annual judgment on the DoA. The ritual service could not actually take away sin. Verses 1-3 describe the problem by saying that the ritual service could not make the worshippers perfect. The conscience was not cleansed by this service; therefore they returned every year. The passage goes on to say that Jesus has perfected us forever. In this context, to be perfect means that our conscience has been cleansed. Reference is made to the daily service ,a repetitive ritual which took place again and again, like the DoA but more often. Jesus offered one sacrifice, a sacrifice that perfects us forever. We will never again have to face our sins as the Jews did every year. In that sense, we have already been judged. We have been declared righteous because of our faith in Christ! God thinks of us as righteous even though we are not. Salvation went from perfect observance of the law to believing Jesus instead. That is righteousness by faith. Scripture says "Their sins and iniquities I will remember no more." The sacrifices stop because the remission of sin is complete. Quote
hobie Posted March 28 Author Posted March 28 14 hours ago, Joe Knapp said: Okay, this is all what the church has been teaching for over a hundred years. But the point I bring up, is that we are at the end of the investigative judgment, where the living are now being judged. We are getting ready for the separation of the saints versus the wicked, so they must be judged Matthew 25:31-46 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. ... Quote
Hanseng Posted March 28 Posted March 28 by Glenn Hansen | 1 September 2022 | When most Seventh-day Adventists think of the investigative judgment, they think of Hiram Edson’s iconic insight in a cornfield after the night of the Great Disappointment. But Edson’s vision of Christ entering the inner sanctuary of the heavenly tabernacle didn’t mention the investigative judgment. Edson, along with O.R.L. Crosier and Dr. Franklin B. Hahn, developed the teaching that Jesus had entered the Most Holy Place, which was then published in an article by Crosier in a Millerite publication called The Day Star.1 There is no mention of the investigative judgment in that article or in Edson’s account of the cornfield experience. Edson saw that Jesus had “a work to perform in the Most Holy Place,” but he wasn’t sure what it was.2 As early as 1841, Josiah Litch had advanced the notion that judgment could happen before Christ’s second advent. Citing Hebrews 9:27, Acts 10:42, and 2 Timothy 4:1, Litch wrote: “Nor is there a text which presents the judicial scene of judgment after the resurrection. On the contrary, the Scriptures can be harmonized on no other principle than that every man’s doom is fixed before his resurrection.”3 Elon Everts The development of these ideas into what came to be called the investigative judgment begins with Elon Everts. Ordained to the gospel ministry during the fall of 1853 in New Haven, Vermont, his name was a familiar one in the Review, with several letters describing his evangelistic labors in Vermont. Everts eventually migrated to Round Grove, Illinois, where he continued his evangelistic work, including time with J.N. Loughborough, and died in February of 1858 at age 51.4 James and Ellen White first discussed Christ’s Most Holy Place ministry with Everts during a wagon ride in Illinois in 1856.5 Everts was quite certain Jesus was in the heavenly sanctuary, but he was unsure about what he had been doing there for more than a decade. Everts began to flesh out his ideas in a “communication” published in the Jan. 1, 1857, issue of the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald. He worked from 1 Peter 4:5-6: “Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” Since the Scripture speaks of a judgment of both the living and the dead, Everts reasoned that Jesus had been judging the dead of the ages since 1844, offering this text as evidence that judgment must take place before Christ’s return during the final generation of life on Earth. Here Everts first floated the phrase “investigative judgment” to attempt to explain what Jesus was doing—the first time it appeared in an Adventist publication.6 He followed this with another article on the investigative judgment, dated June 4, 1854, but not printed in the Review until June 11, 1857. Leaders Weigh In The first full article addressing the investigative judgment came from James White, who picked up the themes of Everts’ “communication” just a month later, in the January 29, 1857, Review, with an article titled “The Judgment.” James White’s argument was based on his understanding of the blotting out of sin, the record of sin in heaven, and the “lot” of Daniel 12:13: “For thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.” He listed more than 70 Old Testament passages from The Englishman’s Hebrew Concordance, some of which indicated that “lot” referred to the position of the judged. Daniel in his lot was a reference to his already having been judged. James White followed Everts in the idea that Scripture taught that there would be a judgment of both the living and the dead, based on 1 Peter 4:5-6, and that this judgment had started with the righteous dead in 1844.7 A pamphlet printed in Battle Creek in 1872 refers to the investigative judgment as Principle XVIII: That the time of the cleansing of the sanctuary (see proposition X), synchronizing with the time of the proclamation of the third message, is a time of investigative judgment, first with reference to the dead, and at the close of probation with reference to the living, to determine who of the myriads now sleeping in the dust of the earth are worthy of a part in the first resurrection, and who of its living multitudes are worthy of translation—points which must be determined before the Lord appears.8 Uriah Smith wrote at length about the investigative judgment in his 1877 work The Sanctuary and the 2300 Days, which saw in Daniel 7:9-10 the basis for the investigative judgment: “Thus the cleansing of the sanctuary involves the examination of the records of all the deeds of our lives. It is an investigative Judgment. Every individual of every generation from the beginning of the world thus passes in review before the great tribunal above. So Daniel, describing the opening of this scene, calls it a work of judgment, and expressly notices the fact that the books were opened.”9 In a sweeping statement, Smith joined several biblical motifs: “We have already seen that the cleansing of the sanctuary, the investigative Judgment of the saints, the blotting out, or remission, of sin, and the finishing of the mystery of God, are all one and the same thing. We now make the additional statement that this is also the atonement.”10 The Biblical Institute, an 1878 synopsis of Adventist doctrines by Uriah Smith and James White, also linked the cleansing of the sanctuary with the investigative judgment and the finishing of the mystery of God.11 On page 84 of the same work, they stated that the investigative judgment takes place as the sanctuary is cleansed.12 Prior to his death in 1883, J.N. Andrews wrote The Sanctuary of the Bible. He mentions the investigative judgment twice, saying it is identical with the cleansing of the sanctuary: “The nature of that work we will now briefly indicate. The work of the Judgment is divided into two parts. The first part is the investigative judgment, which takes place in the heavenly sanctuary, God the Father sitting in judgment. The second part is the execution of the judgment, and is committed wholly to Christ, who comes to our earth to accomplish this work. John 5:22-27; Jude 14, 15. It is while the investigative judgment is in session that the cleansing of the sanctuary takes place. Or, to speak more accurately, the cleansing of the sanctuary is identical with the work of the investigative judgment.”13 His posthumously published The Judgment: Its Events and Their Order includes an entire chapter on the investigative judgment.14 Ellen White Speaks Up Because Ellen White’s The Great Controversy is the most widely read source of religious history among Adventists, it may be easy for us to assume that the investigative judgment teaching started with her. Yet we’ve shown that several Adventist scholars had already written upon the topic for 30 years before she took it up. Her first address of the investigative judgment isn’t until 1884, in chapter 23 of The Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4. While her husband had found evidence for an investigative judgment in Daniel 12:13 and the judgment of the living and the dead referred to in 1 Peter 4:5-6, Ellen White mentions neither, relying instead (as did Uriah Smith) on Daniel 7 (which James hadn’t mentioned) and arguing that verses 9 through 10 and 13 through 14 portray the opening of the investigative judgment in heaven. Ellen White expanded her investigative judgment teaching in the 1888 edition of The Great Controversy, introducing a unique array of passages to support and illustrate it: “The coming of Christ as our high priest to the most holy place, for the cleansing of the sanctuary, brought to view in Daniel 8:14; the coming of the Son of man to the Ancient of days, as presented in Daniel 7:13; and the coming of the Lord to his temple, foretold by Malachi, are descriptions of the same event; and this is also represented by the coming of the bridegroom to the marriage, described by Christ in the parable of the ten virgins, of Matthew 25.”15 She also appealed to Matthew 22:11 to support her investigative judgment teaching.16 Other early treatments of the investigative judgment include Uriah Smith’s influential Daniel and the Revelation (1897) and S.N. Haskell’s The Story of Daniel the Prophet (1901), The Story of the Seer of Patmos (1905), and The Cross and Its Shadow (1914). Ellen White’s 1911 edition of The Great Controversy remains the primary source for the investigative judgment teaching, but she was largely silent on the subject of the investigative judgment until 1884, long after it had been studied and written on by Elon Everts, James White, J.N. Andrews, and Uriah Smith, who were the principal proponents of the teaching. While Ellen White later enhanced and gave credibility to the teaching, she did not originate it. 1 O.R.L. Crosier, “The Law of Moses,” Day Star Extra, Vol. 9, Feb. 7, 1846, pp. 37-43. 2 Handwritten Hiram Edson Manuscript, Document File 588 (Silver Spring, MD: Ellen G. White Estate, circa 1866-1873). 3 Josiah Litch, “An Address to the Public and Especially the Clergy” (Boston: Joshua V. Himes, 1841), pp. 38-39. 4 James White, “Eastern Tour,” Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Vol. 4, No. 19, Nov. 15, 1853; John Lindsey, “Obituary,” Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Vol. 11. No. 17, Mar. 11, 1858; J.N. Loughborough, Elon Everts, and J. Hart, “Tent Meeting in Green Vale,” Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Vol. 10, No. 13, July 30, 1857. 5 Arthur L. White, Ellen G. White: The Early Years, 1827-1862, Vol. 1 (Takoma Park, MD: Review and Herald, 2002), pp. 353-354. 6 Elon Everts, “Communication From Bro. Everts,” Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Vol. 9, No. 9, Jan. 1, 1857, p. 72. 7 James White, “The Judgment,” Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Vol. 9, No. 13, Jan. 29, 1857, p. 100. 8 “A Declaration of the Fundamental Principles Taught and Practiced by Seventh-day Adventists” (Battle Creek, MI: Seventh-day Adventist Publishing Association, 1872). 9 Uriah Smith, The Sanctuary and the Twenty-Three Hundred Days of Daniel 8:14 (Battle Creek, MI: Seventh-day Adventist Publishing Association, 1877), p. 276. 10 ibid. p. 275. 11 Uriah Smith and James White, “The Biblical Institute: A Synopsis of Lectures on the Principal Doctrines of Seventh-day Adventists” (Oakland, CA: Pacific Seventh-day Adventist Publishing House, 1878), p. 72. 12 ibid., p. 84. 13 J.N. Andrews, “The Sanctuary of the Bible,” Bible Tracts No. 5 (Battle Creek, MI: Review and Herald, 186-?), p. 14. 14 Andrews, The Judgment: Its Events and Their Order (Oakland, CA: Pacific Press, 1890), Ch. 1. 15 Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy (Mountain View, CA: Pacific Press, 1888), p. 426. 16 ibid., p. 427. Kevin H 1 Quote
hobie Posted March 28 Author Posted March 28 9 hours ago, Hanseng said: by Glenn Hansen | 1 September 2022 | When most Seventh-day Adventists think of the investigative judgment, they think of Hiram Edson’s iconic insight in a cornfield after the night of the Great Disappointment. But Edson’s vision of Christ entering the inner sanctuary of the heavenly tabernacle didn’t mention the investigative judgment. Edson, along with O.R.L. Crosier and Dr. Franklin B. Hahn, developed the teaching that Jesus had entered the Most Holy Place, which was then published in an article by Crosier in a Millerite publication called The Day Star.1 There is no mention of the investigative judgment in that article or in Edson’s account of the cornfield experience. Edson saw that Jesus had “a work to perform in the Most Holy Place,” but he wasn’t sure what it was.2 As early as 1841, Josiah Litch had advanced the notion that judgment could happen before Christ’s second advent. Citing Hebrews 9:27, Acts 10:42, and 2 Timothy 4:1, Litch wrote: “Nor is there a text which presents the judicial scene of judgment after the resurrection. On the contrary, the Scriptures can be harmonized on no other principle than that every man’s doom is fixed before his resurrection.”3 Elon Everts The development of these ideas into what came to be called the investigative judgment begins with Elon Everts. Ordained to the gospel ministry during the fall of 1853 in New Haven, Vermont, his name was a familiar one in the Review, with several letters describing his evangelistic labors in Vermont. Everts eventually migrated to Round Grove, Illinois, where he continued his evangelistic work, including time with J.N. Loughborough, and died in February of 1858 at age 51.4 James and Ellen White first discussed Christ’s Most Holy Place ministry with Everts during a wagon ride in Illinois in 1856.5 Everts was quite certain Jesus was in the heavenly sanctuary, but he was unsure about what he had been doing there for more than a decade. Everts began to flesh out his ideas in a “communication” published in the Jan. 1, 1857, issue of the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald. He worked from 1 Peter 4:5-6: “Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” Since the Scripture speaks of a judgment of both the living and the dead, Everts reasoned that Jesus had been judging the dead of the ages since 1844, offering this text as evidence that judgment must take place before Christ’s return during the final generation of life on Earth. Here Everts first floated the phrase “investigative judgment” to attempt to explain what Jesus was doing—the first time it appeared in an Adventist publication.6 He followed this with another article on the investigative judgment, dated June 4, 1854, but not printed in the Review until June 11, 1857. Leaders Weigh In The first full article addressing the investigative judgment came from James White, who picked up the themes of Everts’ “communication” just a month later, in the January 29, 1857, Review, with an article titled “The Judgment.” James White’s argument was based on his understanding of the blotting out of sin, the record of sin in heaven, and the “lot” of Daniel 12:13: “For thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.” He listed more than 70 Old Testament passages from The Englishman’s Hebrew Concordance, some of which indicated that “lot” referred to the position of the judged. Daniel in his lot was a reference to his already having been judged. James White followed Everts in the idea that Scripture taught that there would be a judgment of both the living and the dead, based on 1 Peter 4:5-6, and that this judgment had started with the righteous dead in 1844.7 A pamphlet printed in Battle Creek in 1872 refers to the investigative judgment as Principle XVIII: That the time of the cleansing of the sanctuary (see proposition X), synchronizing with the time of the proclamation of the third message, is a time of investigative judgment, first with reference to the dead, and at the close of probation with reference to the living, to determine who of the myriads now sleeping in the dust of the earth are worthy of a part in the first resurrection, and who of its living multitudes are worthy of translation—points which must be determined before the Lord appears.8 Uriah Smith wrote at length about the investigative judgment in his 1877 work The Sanctuary and the 2300 Days, which saw in Daniel 7:9-10 the basis for the investigative judgment: “Thus the cleansing of the sanctuary involves the examination of the records of all the deeds of our lives. It is an investigative Judgment. Every individual of every generation from the beginning of the world thus passes in review before the great tribunal above. So Daniel, describing the opening of this scene, calls it a work of judgment, and expressly notices the fact that the books were opened.”9 In a sweeping statement, Smith joined several biblical motifs: “We have already seen that the cleansing of the sanctuary, the investigative Judgment of the saints, the blotting out, or remission, of sin, and the finishing of the mystery of God, are all one and the same thing. We now make the additional statement that this is also the atonement.”10 The Biblical Institute, an 1878 synopsis of Adventist doctrines by Uriah Smith and James White, also linked the cleansing of the sanctuary with the investigative judgment and the finishing of the mystery of God.11 On page 84 of the same work, they stated that the investigative judgment takes place as the sanctuary is cleansed.12 Prior to his death in 1883, J.N. Andrews wrote The Sanctuary of the Bible. He mentions the investigative judgment twice, saying it is identical with the cleansing of the sanctuary: “The nature of that work we will now briefly indicate. The work of the Judgment is divided into two parts. The first part is the investigative judgment, which takes place in the heavenly sanctuary, God the Father sitting in judgment. The second part is the execution of the judgment, and is committed wholly to Christ, who comes to our earth to accomplish this work. John 5:22-27; Jude 14, 15. It is while the investigative judgment is in session that the cleansing of the sanctuary takes place. Or, to speak more accurately, the cleansing of the sanctuary is identical with the work of the investigative judgment.”13 His posthumously published The Judgment: Its Events and Their Order includes an entire chapter on the investigative judgment.14 Ellen White Speaks Up Because Ellen White’s The Great Controversy is the most widely read source of religious history among Adventists, it may be easy for us to assume that the investigative judgment teaching started with her. Yet we’ve shown that several Adventist scholars had already written upon the topic for 30 years before she took it up. Her first address of the investigative judgment isn’t until 1884, in chapter 23 of The Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4. While her husband had found evidence for an investigative judgment in Daniel 12:13 and the judgment of the living and the dead referred to in 1 Peter 4:5-6, Ellen White mentions neither, relying instead (as did Uriah Smith) on Daniel 7 (which James hadn’t mentioned) and arguing that verses 9 through 10 and 13 through 14 portray the opening of the investigative judgment in heaven. Ellen White expanded her investigative judgment teaching in the 1888 edition of The Great Controversy, introducing a unique array of passages to support and illustrate it: “The coming of Christ as our high priest to the most holy place, for the cleansing of the sanctuary, brought to view in Daniel 8:14; the coming of the Son of man to the Ancient of days, as presented in Daniel 7:13; and the coming of the Lord to his temple, foretold by Malachi, are descriptions of the same event; and this is also represented by the coming of the bridegroom to the marriage, described by Christ in the parable of the ten virgins, of Matthew 25.”15 She also appealed to Matthew 22:11 to support her investigative judgment teaching.16 Other early treatments of the investigative judgment include Uriah Smith’s influential Daniel and the Revelation (1897) and S.N. Haskell’s The Story of Daniel the Prophet (1901), The Story of the Seer of Patmos (1905), and The Cross and Its Shadow (1914). Ellen White’s 1911 edition of The Great Controversy remains the primary source for the investigative judgment teaching, but she was largely silent on the subject of the investigative judgment until 1884, long after it had been studied and written on by Elon Everts, James White, J.N. Andrews, and Uriah Smith, who were the principal proponents of the teaching. While Ellen White later enhanced and gave credibility to the teaching, she did not originate it. 1 O.R.L. Crosier, “The Law of Moses,” Day Star Extra, Vol. 9, Feb. 7, 1846, pp. 37-43. 2 Handwritten Hiram Edson Manuscript, Document File 588 (Silver Spring, MD: Ellen G. White Estate, circa 1866-1873). 3 Josiah Litch, “An Address to the Public and Especially the Clergy” (Boston: Joshua V. Himes, 1841), pp. 38-39. 4 James White, “Eastern Tour,” Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Vol. 4, No. 19, Nov. 15, 1853; John Lindsey, “Obituary,” Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Vol. 11. No. 17, Mar. 11, 1858; J.N. Loughborough, Elon Everts, and J. Hart, “Tent Meeting in Green Vale,” Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Vol. 10, No. 13, July 30, 1857. 5 Arthur L. White, Ellen G. White: The Early Years, 1827-1862, Vol. 1 (Takoma Park, MD: Review and Herald, 2002), pp. 353-354. 6 Elon Everts, “Communication From Bro. Everts,” Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Vol. 9, No. 9, Jan. 1, 1857, p. 72. 7 James White, “The Judgment,” Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Vol. 9, No. 13, Jan. 29, 1857, p. 100. 8 “A Declaration of the Fundamental Principles Taught and Practiced by Seventh-day Adventists” (Battle Creek, MI: Seventh-day Adventist Publishing Association, 1872). 9 Uriah Smith, The Sanctuary and the Twenty-Three Hundred Days of Daniel 8:14 (Battle Creek, MI: Seventh-day Adventist Publishing Association, 1877), p. 276. 10 ibid. p. 275. 11 Uriah Smith and James White, “The Biblical Institute: A Synopsis of Lectures on the Principal Doctrines of Seventh-day Adventists” (Oakland, CA: Pacific Seventh-day Adventist Publishing House, 1878), p. 72. 12 ibid., p. 84. 13 J.N. Andrews, “The Sanctuary of the Bible,” Bible Tracts No. 5 (Battle Creek, MI: Review and Herald, 186-?), p. 14. 14 Andrews, The Judgment: Its Events and Their Order (Oakland, CA: Pacific Press, 1890), Ch. 1. 15 Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy (Mountain View, CA: Pacific Press, 1888), p. 426. 16 ibid., p. 427. Very interesting and good to know.. Quote
Challenger Posted April 15 Posted April 15 Hanseng. Just finished reading your above post. Empressive. Have read many other post of yours on different threads. You obviously know much about tPhe origin of our teachings. I would like to know how it is you have come into such knowledge? Are you a church historian? Quote
Challenger Posted April 15 Posted April 15 On 3/27/2026 at 5:46 AM, Joe Knapp said: Okay, this is all what the church has been teaching for over a hundred years. But the point I bring up, is that we are at the end of the investigative judgment, where the living are now being judged. Joe, Have a few questions for ya. When did the judgement of the living begin? Would it not be out of character with God, to pass judgement of the living without warning? I ask this question in context with the DOA. The nation of Israel was warned of the final close of probation each year as the DOA approached by means of the feast of Trumpets. According to Jewish literature trumpets sounded throughout the camp morning and evening for nine preceding days. I understand the DOA pointed to the final close of probation for mankind. The dead as you know will be judged from their record of deeds, since their ability to choose ends at death. What will mark the end of judgement for each living individual since they will have the ability to make choices, never experiencing death before Christ comes? Quote
Hanseng Posted April 16 Posted April 16 5 hours ago, Challenger said: Are you a church historian I served as the secretary and, later, president, of the Library club at Apperson Street Elementary School in Sunland, California. Quote
Joe Knapp Posted April 16 Posted April 16 5 hours ago, Challenger said: When did the judgement of the living begin? I am not sure if I want to go over that again. Quote
Challenger Posted April 16 Posted April 16 13 minutes ago, Joe Knapp said: I am not sure if I want to go over that again. Ok, how about the other two questions? Quote
Challenger Posted April 16 Posted April 16 56 minutes ago, Hanseng said: I served as the secretary and, later, president, of the Library club at Apperson Street Elementary School in Sunland, California. So how do these two jobs contribute to your knowledge of Adventism? Are you a book worm and everything you read sticks? Quote
Hanseng Posted April 16 Posted April 16 If you want to study SDA history, read the periodical articles on the SDA archives site [too many]. You can also do topical studies on EGW sites. I'm posting articles on the Jesuits from old Review articles. Once you find a topic which interests you, for example "investigative judgment," plug it into a search of pioneer writings to find the writings of various individuals. You can also download .pdf files of periodical articles and use the search function to identify terms such as "Jesuits" "Investigative Judgment," "make" or "declare" righteous. Maintain a narrow focus. Specific time period, specific topic. For early SDA history, EGW's lifetime is the limit I once took an independent study course with Fred Veltman. First I wanted to study the Biblical doctrine of perfection. Too big a topic, he said, for a single quarter course. We finally narrowed it down to perfection in the book of Hebrews, which was manageable for a single course. Perfection could have worked for a doctoral thesis, not a single academic quarter. When he did his EGW study, he limited his work to a limited number of chapters. He didn't do the entire book. When I studied Waggoner, I limited the study to his use of the terms "imputation," "make righteous," and "declare righteous." Find the passages which elaborate on the topic rather than just mention it. Avoid special pleading, that is comments which only sustain your prejudices. Waggoner used both terms "make" and "declare" righteous, although his emphasis was on "make righteous" from Romans 5 "many shall be made righteous." Check out Cleansanctuary. blogspot.com for other examples. Kevin H 1 Quote
Challenger Posted April 16 Posted April 16 Wow! way over my head. However, thanks for the insights, I'm sure others as well appreciated just how you come up with your information. Kevin H 1 Quote
Hanseng Posted April 17 Posted April 17 8 hours ago, Challenger said: I'm sure others as well appreciated just how you come up with your information. I hope so. Primary sources are essential. Review articles by E.G. White can't be denied, although highly prejudiced people as well as ignorant ones will read into her articles things which are not really there. If I say EGW said such and such in this article, it usually can't be disputed. If I say EGW said such and such or EGW believed such and such, that may be questionable if she said other things to different people in different situations at different times that appear to contradict what she seemed to say under different circumstances. There is a bit of an art to it, collecting data and assembling it in a way that appeals and makes sense to others way. The Jesuit articles, I'm just posting a link so every one can draw their own conclusions. People with an agenda are unreliable and should not be believed. phkrause 1 Quote
Joe Knapp Posted April 17 Posted April 17 On 4/16/2026 at 3:49 AM, Challenger said: Would it not be out of character with God, to pass judgement of the living without warning? God has raised up a people to give the warning of the Judgment. Does he need to give a separate warning when the judgment of the living begins? I don't think so. Quote
Challenger Posted April 17 Posted April 17 5 hours ago, Joe Knapp said: God has raised up a people to give the warning of the Judgment. Does he need to give a separate warning when the judgment of the living begins? I don't think so. Yes, I believe God has raised up the Adventist church to bring to light the pre Advent judgement, and the health message too, and other teachings as well. However, I believe the knowledge of the judgment of the living has been more recent, and for this reason Adventist at large are unwilling to consider it because it post dates Mrs. White. This mindset, indicates that individuals believe without acknowledging it, that all progressive truth ended with Mrs. Whites death. Joe, we have been teaching the judgment message since our Church started in, what 1864? If you were to take a survey of 1,000. nominal Christians, and 1,000. unbelievers, from various ethnic groups would wide, what would you guess the percentage of each group would even know the the pre advent judgment began in 1844, and what will be the signs indicating the judgment of the living has begun? My guess is less than than 1/2 percent. What's yours? Do you see the problem? However, God has revealed centuries ago how He will pass judgment on the living as probations draws to a close, and not one individual over the age of say, six years of age will be uninformed. Have you any idea of how He will accomplish this? I think I shared this with you in the past, do you recall? Quote
Joe Knapp Posted April 18 Posted April 18 Quote My guess is less than than 1/2 percent. Probably. No I don't recall. How will he accomplish this? Quote Adventist at large are unwilling to consider it because it post dates Mrs. White. Yes I think that is correct. I have observed that. Quote
Challenger Posted April 18 Posted April 18 22 hours ago, Joe Knapp said: God has raised up a people to give the warning of the Judgment. Does he need to give a separate warning when the judgment of the living begins? I don't think so. 11 hours ago, Joe Knapp said: Probably. No I don't recall. How will he accomplish this? Yes I think that is correct. I have observed that. Joe, I will share wlhat I believe God has revealed but few have connected the dots. First as I previously mentioned the trumpets sounded nine days leading to the DOA to warn the nation of Israel that probation for that year was closing. What this point to in the plan of salvation was that God would sound trumpets as probation draws to a close to warn mankind at the end of time. Thus, the sanctuary service of old supports what I will be sharing with you. The other support I will be sharing can only be proved if one believes the following. God is the author of apocalyptic prophecy and what makes these prophecies different from others is, each one has a beginning and ending point in time and each event within that prophecy is given by God in it's chronological order, since God knows the beginning from the end. Adventist as you know teach the Historical method of interpretation. This method does not understand the law of chronology. However, all fulfilled apocalyptic prophecy to date proves this to be true. The prophecy of the trumpets starts in Rev. 8:2-9:21. Just read vss. 2-6, and ask yourself, do these events seem to be chronological? They are because God listed them in their proper order. If they are not than anyone can change the order of events to suit their own bias. Not understanding the law of chronology has lead to the multiple interpretation that exist today. Our early church fathers interpreted these texts in this way, "...the altar of inceense is symbolic of the end of the ministration of Christ for mankind-the close of probation. The voices, thunderings, lightnings, and earthquake. that ensue when the angel casts the censer into the earth describe events to take place at the end of the seventh trumpet, following the opening of the temple and at the seventh plague... some prefer to see ch. 8:3-5, not so much in its chronological, as in its logical..." (SDA Bible Commentaries, vol. 7, pg 787) Note in this quote, that we understand the thunderings, lightnings and earthquake are literal, and that chronology was ignored because of logic. Man has used logic to interpret these prophecies since they were written and explains the myriad of interpretations since. Recognizing and applying know laws of interpretation is the only way to know God's intended meaning of these prophecies, for they override ones personal bias. Early expositors of the third century believed the first trumpet judgment was fulfilled between 395-419 A.D. and was a war between Goths and Western Rome. We as Adventist teach this today. Pleas read the first trumpet judgment from your bible and see if this interpretation seems reasonable. (Go ahead and scratch you head and wrinkle your face, nobody will see you.) Question, did the trumpets in the earthly sanctuary service sound early in first few months of each religious year of in the seventh and last month? What would be the point in warning mankind of the close of probation if you would die centuries before the close of probation was even to start? So, if we will place our faith in the law of chronology and read again the events of Rev. 8:2-6, God reveals that the Trumpet Judgments follow the throwing down of the censor at the altar of incense (will not go into the meaning of this event, latter if your interested.) Joe, you and I and many will know when the censor is thrown down, because God has deliberately connect this heavenly event with literal events worldwide (for all of mankind will be warned) by thunderings, lighting, and a earthquake, since we cannot see into heaven. Has these worldwide events yet been witnessed, not yet, thus they are future events to be watching for. God has designed the first four literal trumpet judgments to take away our earthly treasures so that most will realize for the first time their need of a savor, before probation closes. The trumpet judgments is when the living will be judged, not from their book of deeds, but as to whether, they choose to except the mark of the beast. Those who do will experience the God's full wrath during the seven last plagues. During the trumpet judgments is also the time when the three angles messages will go out into the world, with great Holy Spirit power, the latter rain. Prayerfully Submitted Quote
Joe Knapp Posted Sunday at 05:03 PM Posted Sunday at 05:03 PM Interesting. I will have to go back and read some more. I never paid much attention to the trumpets before. Quote
Challenger Posted 11 hours ago Posted 11 hours ago Joe, been a week since your last post, trust you have read the trumpet judgements. Tell me, do you think they are literal, and if so, what are the first four? Does what you sense they are, agree with what we as Adventist think they are? Too, do you understand why the service at the altar of incense will end before the trumpets begin? Quote
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