Cant Buy or Sell, how will they implement it?

[hobie]

Well we had a eye opening enforcement during the Covid19 spread. During the COVID-19 "zero-Covid" lockdowns in China , residents in cities like Wuhan, Xi'an, and Guiyang were put under severe restrictions that prevented them from buying food, medicine, and necessities, or selling goods. During the COVID-19 pandemic, China implemented a nationwide system of color-coded health apps on citizens' mobile phones to control movement and restrict any purchase or selling by the person or persons. These systems functioned as a digital "good citizen certificate" which determined whether an individual could buy goods, use transportation, or enter buildings, so it was a complete social enforcement. Here is some background..

"Wang Yu, hailed by the U.S. as an International Woman of Courage, has already been arrested, imprisoned and harassed by the Chinese Communist Party for her work as a human rights lawyer representing activists, Uyghur scholars and Falun Gong practitioners. Now, her movements within her home country have been restricted by a color-coded app on her phone that’s supposed to protect people from COVID-19.

The app and its color codes have become ubiquitous in China as the country has struggled to contain the coronavirus, pushing the public to a breaking point that resulted in protests over COVID restrictions late last month. The government announced last week that it would discontinue the national color-coded health app, but cities and provinces have their own versions, which have been more dominant. In Beijing last week, restaurants, offices, hotels and gyms were still requiring approved color codes to enter.

Drawing on telecommunications network data and PCR test results, the app is relatively simple. Everyone is assigned a QR code on their phone that switches between green, yellow and red, depending on factors such as whether they’ve been in the same spot as someone who has tested positive for COVID-19 (yellow) or if they themselves have tested positive (red). Only people with green codes can go about normal daily life." https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-12-20/china-covid-health-apps-tool-social-political-control

[Joe Knapp]

32 More Countries Will Stop Stamping Passports In 2026

https://www.traveloffpath.com/32-more-countries-will-stop-stamping-passports-in-2026/

 

[phkrause]

23 hours ago, Joe Knapp said:

32 More Countries Will Stop Stamping Passports In 2026

That's not a bad thing? Is it?

[Joe Knapp]

Well they are moving to a China model of all electronic information. If you misbehave in China they can easily punish you with a few clicks. That will prevent you from boarding a high speed train, airplane, and other places. 

In Canada, when the truckers protested, the government froze their bank accounts and canceled their insurance.  

It's a move to a place where the government can control the populations and suppress speech. 

[Joe Knapp]

On 4/23/2026 at 3:50 AM, hobie said:

Wang Yu, hailed by the U.S. as an International Woman of Courage, has already been arrested, imprisoned and harassed by the Chinese Communist Party for her work as a human rights lawyer representing activists, Uyghur scholars and Falun Gong practitioners. Now, her movements within her home country have been restricted by a color-coded app on her phone that’s supposed to protect people from COVID-19.

This is that electronic control they are all moving to. 

[Kevin H]

Sadly our current administration is going full speed at developing ways of making it difficult if not impossible for people to buy or sell. We are living in a time where you don't need much imagination to see the idea of enforced religion (we tend to limit out eyesight to the specific application of Sunday Laws in and of themselves, and miss the big picture of what Mrs. White predicted: However, today even the idea of the application of Sunday Laws does not seem far fetched, but we still need to look at the larger picture. I'm sure that Satan has a way to sneek past us if we limit ourselves to the application and example instead of the larger principle.) 

[Challenger]

I believe Satan has already snuck around Christians of all faiths, not to mention unbelievers as well. I believe the reason for this is that few individuals understand the trumpet judgments of Rev.8 and 9. Satan started his deception in the third century leading early Historicist expositor to interpret the trumpets starting 395 - 419 A.D., and involved conflict between the Goths and Western Rome. Adventist believe the seventh sounded in 1844, and continues until the new earth is established after the millennium. These beliefs lacks any valid hermeneutics supporting such teachings, and are taught by our church to this day. Should you believe that age makes error into truth you need not read further…………………..However, if truth does matter to you, it can be easy refuted by the following valid hermeneutic. Each apocalyptic prophecy has a beginning and ending point in time, and each event within that prophecy is given by God, in its chronological order. This hermeneutic was not revealed to early expositors, However, the Holy Spirit has revealed it as we get closer to closing events. The validity of this law can be validated by reasoning and fulfillment. Reasoning: Since God is the author of apocalyptic prophecy and knows the beginning from the end, He has given us the events within each prophecy in their chronological order as proof of His divinity.  Fulfillment:  Historical facts prove the chronology within all fulfilled apocalyptic prophecy to date. Examples, Dan. 2, 7, 8 and 9,  proves that chronology is a natural law that God used when He gave us these prophecies.

If you can except these facts, and willing also to put your trust in the Bible and Bible only, then prophecy proves the trumpet judgement are yet future. Note the following chronology in Rev. 8:2-7,  Vs.1, Seven angels are given seven trumpets.  Vss. 2-4) The angel at the altar of incense places his last offering on the altar of incense. Vs. 5, The angel then cast the censor to earth, ending corporate atonement for mankind, as Jesus calls for it to end, on earth there follows, peals of thunder, flashes of lighting, and an earthquake. Vs. 6, the seven angles prepare to sound their trumpets. Vs. 7, The first angel sounds his trumpet. Is there any doubt in your mind that these events are in their correct chronological order, revealed to John by God, having all foreknowledge? Yes or No.

Do you find it unsettling that our early church fathers moved verse 3-5 out of their chronological order based on logic? Please consider the following, (SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 7, pg. 787) “According to the view that Seventh- day Adventists have favored, the cessation of the angel’s ministry at the altar of incense is symbolic of the end of the ministration of Christ for mankind-the close of probation, the voices, thunderings, lightnings, and earthquake that ensue when the angel cast the censer into the earth describe events to take place at the end of the seventh trumpet, following the opening of the temple (ch. 11:19);…”Some prefer to see ch. 8:3-5, not so much in its chronological as in its logical, relationship to the seals and trumpets.”

 This is precisely why we must follow valid laws on interpretation to rule out one’s bias. Since this prophecy clearly reveals that when the service at the altar of incense in heaven is terminated, there will be  world wide, “ peals of thunder, flashes of  lightnings, and an earthquake,” for ALL must be made aware. And God has, to the extent that He has purposely linked the end of the heavenly event to literal manifestations here on earth. He has done this because we cannot see into heaven, but when these manifestations happen globally, those understanding apocalyptic prophecy will understand that the service at the altar of incense has terminated. Since we understand these manifestations to be literal, but have yet to be witnessed worldwide as historical fact, We have to conclude by faith, based on God’s word that this service has not been terminated, thus the trumpet judgments are yet future, and the first trumpet did not sound from 395-419 A.D. as third century scholars believed, and we as Adventist still teach today.  

Why is this important for us to acknowledge our misunderstanding today? Because based on our present interpretation of the trumpets opening 631 centuries ago, the timing is not supported by the valid law of chronology. They served no purpose in warning those living centuries before the close of probation.  Even as Adventist we give them little or no consideration at all today.  As it is, we do not understand that the 1st trumpet will burn up 1/3 of the earths vegetation, destroy 1/3 of our sea life, and a third of the ships in the ocean hit by an asteroid according to the 2nd trumpet. That 1/3 of our drinking water will be contaminated by another asteroid striking a continent during the 3rd trumpet. And the 4th trumpet due to the ash and smoke from the three previous trumpets will restrict 1/3 of the light we receive from the sun and moon. This will undoubtedly cause world wide famine since crops will not reach maturity. This famine is what Satan will use to force people to except his mark inter right hand of forehead (Rev.13:15-18) We and the rest of the world will think of these as natural disasters. But this will be a terrible misunderstanding which Satan has been promoting, as he does not want mankind to know that the trumpets are God’s judgements, warning us of the close of probation and a time when the living will be tested of their faith in Christ, or lack thereof.

Too, if one lives to witness the trumpets, life will get harder as each one sounds, one should know that when the fifth one sounds Satan and his angels are released from the abyss/spirit realm and he will come as a angel of light an imposter of Christ, the greatest deception of all time. If we understand the trumpets correctly we will not be deceived, but rather our faith will grow stronger as each one sounds during earths darkest hour. 

Closing Thought: Their are many theories of how the Mark of the Beast will be implemented, none factor in Gods first four literal trumpet judgments which are designed to put the world in survival mode so that all of mankind will give heed to the three angles messages and be saved. When one understands correctly the first four trumpet judgements then Rev. 13: 15-18 makes sense as it reads, since modern technology will be of no avail when most of our electrical grid will be destroyed. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joe Knapp]

13 hours ago, Challenger said:

Too, if one lives to witness the trumpets, life will get harder as each one sounds

I don't believe people will change at that point. Their hearts are already hardened. 

13 hours ago, Challenger said:

one should know that when the fifth one sounds Satan and his angels are released from the abyss/spirit realm

I have a hard time with this. This assumes the evil angels are somehow contained then released. I do not believe that is the case. I believe evil spirits now roam the earth freely constrained only from God's people. 

[Hanseng]

If people in America really believe that the gov't will, in union with the papacy, persecute and execute those who refuse to bow to the pope, no one seems to really care. Reminds of the Jewish mentality in Berlin, i.e., Oh that could never happen here. Sensible people immigrated as quick as they could, got out of "Dodge." SDA on the other hand, seem to be cozying up to Rome, dismissing EGW's thoughts as  "typical 19th century anti-Catholicism." 

Many SDA are simply resigned to being victims of what will amount to sadistic torture and death. Others are concerned about being labeled anti-Catholic. People who actually believe what EGW said should be anti-Catholic, better stated as anti-papacy. Historically, local priests whipped up their constituents into murderous frenzies, often aimed at those who interfered with  RC devotions, e.g., destroyed images during the Reformation.

Years ago, there was a little baby whose parents were RC. He needed a heart transplant. Infant heart transplants required a lot of follow up care, including reliable caregivers and a stable environment. Apparently, there were issues which made this little fellow ineligible. Next thing, a RC priest got a small group who headed down to the Eagle Rock church, denounced the decision as anti-Roman Catholic. Rather than stand their ground, based on the best clinical decision they could make, LLU immediately capitulated, deciding that after all, the little guy was a suitable candidate.

If the EGW end time scenario comes to pass, don't expect the RL department to fight for you. They will likely  align with the papacy to preserve the denomination. And don't sit back, awaiting a death decree. Prophecy is usually conditional. Cry Aloud!

[Hanseng]

7 hours ago, Hanseng said:

anti-Roman Catholic

May have been anti-Hispanic, possibly both. The original decision was most likely based upon family circumstances and environmental concerns, i.e., the inability to provide adequate follow up care, not race or religion. 

[Hanseng]

Concerned about not being able to buy or sell? If you lived in the countryside, you could provide your own food and water. When the nazis were capturing the Jews, it was the ones living in the cities who were easily rounded up. Being put to death is another issue, one that seems a fantasy. Seems impossible to the extent that few rally consider it happening . It has happened, sometimes perpetrated by regular people, i.e., extra judicial murders. Consider that the number of Roman Catholics in America [~50 million] now includes many immigrants that brought a different brand of Roman Catholicism to America. It may not be the live and let live kind of Catholicism  common in America. If the pope, or even local priests and bishops got serious about stamping out Protestantism,  it might not be too hard to get old style RC immigrants to carry out persecutions, especially if they could obtain the property and goods of those targeted.  

Consider what happened  in Rwanda. When a death decree was passed, even SDA murdered their own brethren,  over tribal issues. They used denominational properties as killing fields. Of course, if you believe that EGW was a mentally disturbed individual, who was merely reflecting typical anti-Roman Catholicism of that era, not to worry. 

[Gregory Matthews]

On a personal basis, I believe that we have much more to fear from a sub-set of Protestants than we do from Catholics.

[Kevin H]

7 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

On a personal basis, I believe that we have much more to fear from a sub-set of Protestants than we do from Catholics.

So do I. The office of the Papacy played a large role in the 5th head of the beast of Revelation 13, this was focused upon in the Protestant Reformation but who continued the same beastly principles of the 5th head, but which lead to events in the Americas that moved us from the 5th head to the 6th head. Mrs. White started on this information but moved beyond it and used it as an example to point us towards what is coming up in the 7th head. Sadly, most Adventists hold back to the 5th head, and don't just see the office of the papacy that had a large role in the 5th head, but see the papacy as the entire beast, and expect the future to not move on to the 7th head but to simply return to the 5th head and the Pope playing the central role. 

As a review of the 7 heads based on the research of George McCready Price, and the 1976 Southern New England Campmeeting, and I understand these to be combatable to ignored insights that Stephen Haskell and Perri Windandi (spelling?) points out abut the 7 parts of the image in Daniel 2:

1. Babylon

2. Medio-Persia

3. Greece

4. Rome

5. Feet of Iron and Clay: Clay in the Bible represents what God molds and works with. However in this 5th period we find the clay not being molded by God but being molded by the iron, the state; thus indicates a church/state situation. We find historically after the Roman Empire we find church/state enforced religion over the empire. In the Middle East it became Islam (Mohammad could well have had a true conversion, wanted to go to the God of the Bible from polytheism. Was living in harsh desert conditions, saw that Judaism was incomplete without Jesus, but Christians had such veneration to not only the trinity, but also to Mary and the saints, and did not see much of a difference between all this veneration and polytheism. He fought defensive wars. After he died his followers formed two major divisions with several minor subdivisions within the two major divisions. They also became agressive conversion by sword. ) A bit farther west it was Eastern Orthodox, then Western Orthodox or Roman Catholism. Eventually there were reformed Roman Catholics i.e. Protestantism, then small communities of Judaism. Each of these had their own areas of geographic rule in union of church state. Your religion was where you lived. If you wanted a different faith you were subject to persecution and death. 

6. Toes of Iron and Clay: Much of the imagration to the Americas were people wanting to get a piece of land for their specific religion. This started some changes in thinking. The state of Maryland was a Roman Catholic state for refuge of Roman Catholics from persecution from the Church of England. They did something amazing in their first settlement which grew out of how the pain from the choices of the oneness of church/state affected them in England: On one side of town they built all the public buildings. Then came the homes, then on the OTHER SIDE of town they built their church. Roger Williams had the crazy idea of liberty of conscience. There is debate between whether William Penn also believed in liberty of conscience, or did he try to make Pennsylvania a piece of property for the church state for Quakers and did not find enough Quakers to come, but either way Penn also went for liberty of conscience. 

As the United States formed, they did not have a one government church state, but they had many local church states even by communities. Around this time was also the French Revolution where they changed their church/state from Roman Catholic to Atheistic Humanism. When Thomas Jefferson became President he wantes all of America to become like Rhode Island and Pennsylvania. People wondered if this would turn America into the same secular Atheistic Humanism as France. People hid their Bibles and expected persecution like back in Europe. Churches worried that they could not exist without the tax dollars. However, Jefferson's wall of separation between church and state ended up giving the church more freedom than she ever had. America became an open marketplace for ideas, including religious ideas. People would hear different ideas and incorporate in their lives what made the most sense. This gave America her greatness and made her Lamblike. But some things, such as how she treated the natives and slavery was a way of speaking like the dragon. From Thomas Jefferson through Jimmy Carter, liberty of conscience rulled the day. Even John Kennedy understood the difference between being  the Roman Catholic candadate and being an American candadate who happens to worship in the Roman Catholic Church. 

The "beast" has a deadly wound as there is not one great empire rulling over most of God's people, but a bunch of independent nations. The American and French revolutions influenced the divisions. Some offering more freedom, others more control. The crowns are on the horns rather than a head. (Unlike our art work, the 10 horns are only on the deadly wound  or 6th head, then shared with the 7th head.) 

7. The Deadly Wound beng healed, the toes attempting to join together: In a lot of ways, the dragon and beast are opposites. The dragon is direct demonic activity based on the first deception of Lucifer that God really is not God but only a higher life form using the claim to be God to place a law over us to keep us from evolving to that high life form. That we should be a law unto ourselves. Do your own thing. You have your truth and I have mine. Your subjective existential experience is your source of truth and the final authority. (You end up becoming a slave to your feelings.)

The beast is any organization that we allow to control our life. The beast tells us what to believe and what to do and we obey. The organization becomes the final authority. 

Starting with Ronald Reagan there was a preference shown to Evangelical Christianity. In reaction the far left began to show preference for the religion of secular humanism. The one more beast like, the other more dragon like. The second beast of Revelation 13, which we apply to the United States will get to where it is doing more speaking like the dragon, or more of a lean towards secularism, and in reaction, feeling that the freedoms in America are going too far, especially for unwanted people and thus it forms an image to the beast. Some will agree (and thus taking the mark in their foreheads) others who dissagree will find it to their advantage to simply go along with it (and thus taking the mark in their right hand).  

Revelation teaches that the 7th head is different from the first six. They were formed by warfare, conquest or revolution. The 7th head is the horns uniting under economic cooperation. Ellen White seems to expect the Pope to play a role, and we see it as growing more to the role the moral voice of this great economic state. With in receint weeks of this posting the Pope warned about war and kindness to strangers within our gates, and the President and Vice President (with the Vice President being a Roman Catholic) is telling the pope to submit to his place in the pecking order.  The "merchants of the earth" or corporations will play the major part, and their agreement with the dragon that the final truth is what they feel like doing; but they appear to stand up as the hero for a section of Protestants, not realizing how this will backfire on them, and I fear that too many Seventh-day Adventists are so focused on the Pope being the center of everything and so focused on specifically Sunday Laws, that Satan will offer us his deceptions in a way where enforced religion seems to be on our side so that, as long as it is not directly Sunday laws, it is acceptable, and thus numb us for whenever what ever role the Sabbath/Sunday issue will show up. (What if there is debate, where in the Christian world there is a focus on Sabbath and Sunday, maybe chance for Sunday laws, but it does not fully make it into law?) 

I'm afraid of all who support this developmenting of the 7th head. Give me Roman Catholics who set up that first community in Maryland of the public buildings on the one side of town, then the homes, then the church on the otherside of town. Give me a Roman Catholic with the views of Church and State that President Kennedy held, and I will feel safe. Give us a sub-set of Protestants who do not see this and I am scared, but looking for the blessed hope. 

[Kevin H]

Here is an excellent post from Jon Paulines blog on the current situation between Trump and the Pope:

Jon Paulien's Blog · TBOA Headquarters

[phkrause]

Excellent posts Kevin! I went to GNYA with Jon, what a great guy! And not least of all one dedicated Christian!!!

[Hanseng]

"To be precise: the United States government cannot silence the pope, and it cannot silence any other religious leader."

Actually, it can. Popes have been "silenced" in the past. The best known example was Napoleon's general arresting, in 1809, Pius VI, holding him until he died in captivity. Clement VII was captured by the troops of Emperor Charles V in 1527, required to pay a large ransom for his life. Henry IV attacked Rome  in ~1081 and drove the pope from his throne.

Popes are not invincible. As heads of state, they are legitimate military targets.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

So are you saying that it is a valid function of government to silence the Pope?

 

Are you saying that such is valid      under International conventions? 

[Hanseng]

As heads of state, they are legitimate military targets. Better had I said, Historically, they were legitimate targets.

I didn't mention Julius II, known as the warrior pope. He fought wars against the French, and others, in the interest of the papal states. He was also a patron of the arts and initiated the sale of  the indulgences which gave birth to the Reformation

Not sure exactly what roles he played in actual combat, if any. Of course, on the battlefield, few are immune from injury or death, as Zwingli discovered as a chaplain.

"The chief task of his pontificate he saw in the firm establishment and the extension of the temporal power. For the accomplishment of this task no pope was ever better suited than Julius, whom nature and circumstances had hewn out for a soldier."

"Julius II was chiefly a soldier, and the fame attached to his name is greatly due to his reestablishment of the Pontifical States and the deliverance of Italy from its subjection to France."

 Pope Julius II | Catholic Answers Encyclopedia

[Challenger]

On 5/4/2026 at 5:40 PM, Kevin H said:

Revelation teaches that the 7th head is different from the first six. They were formed by warfare, conquest or revolution. The 7th head is the horns uniting under economic cooperation.

Kevin, I would be very interested in knowing how you can support your above statement from the book of Revelation. I don’t believe it is possible since prophecy clearly states the composite beast having seven the seven [heads and ten horns all rises from the sea, (appear on the world stage) after the head having the fatal wound (which Adventist understand to be the Papacy, and I agree) is healed. The wound inflicted in 1798, and the healing begins in 1929 under the Lateran Treaty. These as you know are historical facts. Therefore, at the earliest this composite beast could not rise from the sea before 1929. Please share your thoughts.

[Hanseng]

On 5/7/2026 at 8:18 AM, Hanseng said:

The best known example was Napoleon's general arresting, in 1809, Pius VI, holding him until he died in captivity.

Wrong date. 1798 is better