Chruch and Society

[Gregory Matthews]

I attend an SDA Church that wants to reach out to society at large and to be relevant to society today. Good idea. But, do we often really realize what that may mean?

I attend a Sabbath School class in that congregation that differs in some respects from a typical SDA Sabbath School class. Its members range all of the way from quite conservative SDAs, to liberal ones. They work well together as all respect each other, and welcome challenges to viewpoints. Good discussion takes place, and people do not attack beliefs.

This class will also have some non-SDAs attending, and even perhaps some non-Christians. Comments from these are welcomed. Some of these are the non-SDA husbands and wives of our members. Others are simply people from the community. We even occasionally have a non-SDA clergyperson, who simply wanted to attend a SDA service. Again, all are welcome to participate in the discussions.

Yesterday, we had a couple present who practice elements of the Jewish religion, but do not formally belong to a Jewish congregation.

The discussions are decided upon by mutual agreement. Sometimes as we are doing now, we discuss the GC Lesson Quarterly. We have had guests come to talk to us about Islam, and the Bahia faith. Occasionally we will spend the Sabbath on a geological field trip into the near-by mountains. It is led by a PhD. Geologist.

One of our interesting members is a Hindu. She attends every week because her young daughter wants to attend our church. Frankly, she is not attending to become a Christian. But, she is willing to take her daughter to our church, and she has found a SS Class that she can attend an in which she can participate. She is really excited about the lessons that we are currently discussing regarding the Biblical book of Ecclesiastes. Yesterday she pulled out a copy of the ‘geta and quoted from it several times. At one point she stated that the source of Ecclesiastes that the ‘geta were one and the same! That got some people’s attention!

What do you think of this? What would you think if we were to allow her to share with us some Sabbath the beliefs of the Hindu religion?

As you respond, please tell me as to whether or not you have non-Christians attending the services of your SDA church, on a regular basis, and tell me to what extent your congregation is interacting with the society in which it is situated. The questions that I ask is: What does it mean for a SDA congregation to interact with the society in which it is placed? (We have Hindu’s in our area.)

[David Koot]

Hi Gregory,

As for the local church here, it is comprised of elderly people who are pretty staunch traditional SDA's. We don't have non-Christians attending on any basis.

However, the neighborhood Bible fellowship which we have started downtown, does have quite a variety of people attending, including atheists, agnostics, a Wiccan, a New Ager (but moved away) and various others. We have excellent interaction. As the discussion facilitator, I watch for questions these people bring up as a theme for our weekly discussions, often.

Now, as far as providing a platform for adherents of alternative religions to present their beliefs, I might hesitate to do that because most of our people are non-Adventist and a high percentage are not practicing Christians. My concern is that such presentations might result in some of these folks becoming devotees of the other religions. After some difficult experiences last year, I came to the conclusion that our best course is to keep the discussions Bible-based. That has not been a problem, except for one or two individuals.

Dave

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I think it's important to understand the beliefs of other religions. While a Christian can still *talk* with a non-Christian and not know the particulars of his/her beliefs, it is far better to know what his/her belief system is. I was much more likely to listen to someone who had even a general clue of what witchcraft was all about, than I ever was in listening to someone who had no clue, yet pontificated about the evils of my beliefs.

Quoting from the Gita during Sabbath School? Wow. I don't know. I could quote things from the Wiccan Rede or from other such mystical and Magickal sources of witchcraft lore......and it would sound like I was quoting from scripture. Kinda gives me the creeps...

BTW, I know of several Wiccan High Priestesses who are regular attendees of SDA services...2 in Oz and one in the USA..

[cricket]

I whole-heartedly agree that it is important and reasonable for all persons to become acquainted with the belief systems of other religions. A Sabbath School forum may not be the most ideal setting for such learning, however. Within the sanctuary, I think it is reasonable to expect that only the word of God be taught.

A more acceptable setting might be a Thursday night class on world religions--inviting the public and anyone interested to come and share their beliefs and fellowship with Christians. Community outreach can happen via these types of programs; forming bonds of friendship are vital to the furtherance of the "cause."

rudywooofs, where did you find the smilies?! That is the cutest thing I've seen in ages!

[D. Allan]

Quote:

What would you think if we were to allow her to share with us some Sabbath the beliefs of the Hindu religion?

It is an opportunity not to be missed! Especially since she is so excited and you have already listened to a Muslim. If you want to read a 'Gita', a Bhagavad Gita, I recommend a new translation by Stephen Mitchell.

I sounds to me as if you have a very interesting class. Most of us are not that lucky.

[Dr. Shane]

I think it would be disrespectful to the God of heaven to let a church dedicated to teach His truth and spread His gospel be used to lead people astray.

I agree that a comparative religions class, not meeting on the Sabbath or in the sanctuary would be the best way to educate our church members about false religions.

As far as reaching people in other religions, it doesn't happen through compromise. That is Rome's history. The best way to dispel darkness is to let the light shine.

[D. Allan]

Ghandi, a Hindu who was more Christlike that most christians. As he crumpled to the ground he forgave the man who shot him.

Quote:

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

-Mohandas Gandhi-

[D. Allan]

Quote:

Religion is more than life. Remember that his own religion is the truest to every man even if it stands low in the scales of philosophical comparison.

-Mohandas Gandhi-

[D. Allan]

Quote:

The essence of all religions is one. Only their approaches are different.

-Mohandas Gandhi-

[D. Allan]

Quote:

Spiritual relationship is far more precious than physical. Physical relationship divorced from spiritual is body without soul.

-Mohandas Gandhi-

[D. Allan]

Quote:

That service is the noblest which is rendered for its own sake.

-Mohandas Gandhi-

[D. Allan]

Quote:

In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart.

-Mohandas Gandhi-

[D. Allan]

Quote:

Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause.

-Mohandas Gandhi-

[D. Allan]

:duno Sorry. I just kept finding beautiful quotations of Ghandi!

[David Koot]

The essence of all religions is one. Only their approaches are different.

-Mohandas Gandhi

That is not true, at least as far as the Protestant Christian faith is concerned. It may well be true of the other world religions, including RC, which is a hybrid of other religions and Christianity.

[D. Allan]

What would you consider the "essence" of religion to be?

[Woody]

Why has this thread been Gandharized?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Why has this thread been Gandharized?

I was kinda wondering that myself... 'tis a bit like spamming, eh?

[David Koot]

What would you consider the "essence" of religion to be?

That is a very worthwhile question indeed. It deserves a careful response, which I am not, at the moment, able to provide, due to the day's schedule. However, I shall look forward to responding later this evening.

Regards, Dave

[David Koot]

I unexpectedly have a bit of time on my hand, so wish to briefly respond. As for the essence of religion . . . Protestant Christianity is unique among the world's religions, in several ways. Firstly, the belief that a person's efforts or good works are not sufficient to earn him or her salvation, and that no how matter how hard a person tried, or how long s/he lives, s/he cannot attain perfection by his or her own efforts. Secondly, the concept of alien righteousness. Thirdly, the fact that in the Christian faith, God's forgiveness breaks the cycle of karma.

Dave

[D. Allan]

Quote:

Why has this thread been Gandharized?

I've already apologized. Just couldn't help myself.

I think it was an attempt to show that a Hindu may have a religious experience more admirable and deeper than some Christians who look upon them with contempt and intolerance. And a measure of ignorance. (BTW i'm not a Hindu.)

_________________________________

Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause.

-Mohandas Gandhi-

[Woody]

D. Allen ... Thank you for your apology. It is gladly accepted. You have made a good point here. I think we can learn a lot from other religions. If you are strong in your Christian faith then you should be able to learn from other faiths without danger.

But I think for now we have been well Gandharized

[D. Allan]

Quote:

But I think for now we have been well Gandharized

_______________________________________

Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause.

-Mohandas Gandhi-

[D. Allan]

Quote:

Firstly, the belief that a person's efforts or good works are not sufficient to earn him or her salvation, and that no how matter how hard a person tried, or how long s/he lives, s/he cannot attain perfection by his or her own efforts. Secondly, the concept of alien righteousness. Thirdly, the fact that in the Christian faith, God's forgiveness breaks the cycle of karma.

In other words the essence of your religion is Salvation.

[David Koot]

The essence? It is an essential component, and the three items I mentioned are unique to Protestant Christianity. Neither Ghandi's religion, nor Buddhism, nor the Muslim faith, share it.