Why no miracle reports??

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

There are so many examples of miracles in the Bible - why, particularly from the New Testament, are there no secular reports of those miracles? Greeks and Romans, from what I understand, were meticulous in their historical accounts. Why then, are there no accounts of all of Jesus' miracles, of His resurrection, etc? And what of all the people who apparently were resurrected when Jesus was? Wouldn't it make people kinda wonder to see formerly dead people walking around the cities talking to people?

I mean, I realize the Internet and the New York Times were not available, but still...Rome had couriers....and word of mouth can reach extremely far - because that's how Christianity was spread, is it not?

[bevin]

Here is when the Bible records huge public miracles

Creation 6 days

Flood about 1 year

Exodus about 40 years

Elijah about 10 years

Jesus about 3 years

Acts about 1 year

That's it. Out of 7000 years of history there was about 70 years where there were big public miracles. And these events happen at major crisis points in the history of God's people - points where they have almost disappeared.

/Bevin

[Woody]

Quote:

Creation 6 days

Bevin ... Creation took 7 days.

On the 7th day ... one of the most important things was created ... it was the Sabbath.

Personally I would be lost without the Sabbath in my life.

[Taylor]

Redwood, Bevin has said in previous threads that he does not believe in a 7 literal day creation week. (And if I am wrong, please do correct me Bevin. I do not wish to misconstrue what you have said.)

[bevin]

The resting was not a miracle.

Besides, this is a distraction from my point - which is that even in the Bible big miracles are extremely uncommon events

/Bevin

[Woody]

Bevin ... If I was a distraction ... I apologize. I feel that the rest and establishment of the Sabbath WAS a part of Creation.

It may not have been a miracle ... so for that I apologize for mentioning it.

[Taylor]

Bevin, I know you think the Sabbath wasn't part of the miracle of creation. My comments below don't have to do with the Sabbath but with miracles in general. I know you might be skeptical of me if I told you some things that I have experienced or seen. But I have seen several incredible miracles that defy all explanation except God stepped in and fixed it. I am not the type of person who gets into conspiracy theroies or calling every thing that crosses my path a miracle. But when you've seen some of the ways God has stepped in and fixed things that I have seen, you have no other conclusion to reach than it was a miracle. I will tell you just one here quickly.

I was in India with a group and we were doing evangelism in a Hindu village. We had about 700 people coming nightly. We showed a movie of Jesus, preached, and gave very simple health lectures (such as telling them not to build their latrines close to their water source as that could cause lots of incredible diseases which are very common in India. No we were not teaching them to make tofu or that eggs were bad for them, so no worries, ok? lol)

Anyway, while the electricity remained stable, suddenly there was a loud pow, the distinct sound of falling glass could be heard, smoke and sparks came out the back of my projector and the projector turned off. The acrid smell of burned wires filled the night air. We did everything to get it going again, but it was obvious (by turning the projector over and hearing the broken bulb pieces rattle around inside), having the smoke continue to come out the back, and the smell, that the projector was completely toasted. We did everything to get it to turn back on by plugging it into a differnt source, trying to put it through reset type modes etc, but not even a flicker did we get.

We told the people that the God of heaven could do anything. Sometimes however, he says no to our prayer request but one day we will understand why. We then prayed that God would either a. fix the projector, or b. help them to understand the presentation without the pictures on the screen. The crowd was quiet in breathless anticipation. When we said Amen..that second (Yes I do know because I had kept one eye on the projector/screen.) the projector came back on, in full color. It didnt' even come on to the typical blue screen when it is searching for the signal from the computer. It came on back to the precise slide that we had last been on.

Bevin, the only conclusion is that God did that for those people!

WHY do such miracles seem to occure oversease more than in the USA? Is it that God can't do miracles here? No. Here are the reasons are I see them.

1. We had no other recourse for a second bulb. We hadn't brought one with us as an additional bulb costed about $450, money that we didn't have to spend before we left on this trip. Also it was a new machine and hadn't experienced enough hours yet to blow a blub. We had it plugged into a power strip that had a protector so that the strip should have blown before the projector. God knew there wasn't a store we could run to and get another one. So when there is NO recourse and God thinks you still need an item, he will come through for you.

2. The people were Hindus. They were afraid of their god's and spent much time appeasing them. Seeing the movie of a Jesus who touched lepers (and yes they have lepes in India and they NEVER touch them), and who hung out with poor people (like themselves), they were so drawn to a God who LOVED them. God knew they needed to see more of that Jesus movie.

3. Most did not have Bibles yet, so having the texts on the screen was very helpful for them to understand inportant topics like salvation. The colorful illustrations brought the message home to their hearts.

4. It was evidence that the God of heaven CAN DO ANYTHING. He is more powerful than all their God's.

I could tell you many more such stories. The God of Bible times hasn't changed and He is still interested in the details of our lives. He still cares.

Just had to share that with you.

[Taylor]

Oh and by the way that projector still works. It is has sense been used in Mexico, Costa Rica, Panama and the Dominican Republic. We now have a replacement bulb as it would be presumptuous to not have one, but we haven't had to use it yet.

[Woody]

Quote:

Besides, this is a distraction from my point - which is that even in the Bible big miracles are extremely uncommon events

I agree with this. God would prefer us to have simple faith that does not need big miracles.Big miracles are indeed rare.

But I do find the testimony of Taylor to be very encouraging and spiritually uplifting.

[olger]

I saw a miracle in my office last year. A couple had come in for counseling. While they were there, adultery was revealed. The offended spouse threatened to leave. We made a place for her in another room. after a long hard week, she finally realized that bitterness was destroying her. He was repentant that he had gotten "caught" so to speak, but he wasn't remorseful in his heart. I asked her what she would take in payment for the adultery. She said "a million dollars wouldn't touch it." I said how are we going to resolve this pain? She finally looked at him until his eyes met hers. Then she said, "I want you to know that I am willing to pay the price for the pain you have caused me. You are free." He burst into tears and collapsed on the floor. Her forgiveness caused him to see just how big of a sin that he had comitted. He realized that he could not pay for his sin. All he could do was appeal to her to forgive him.

One day later they left for home - a completely different couple. He was free from his moral failures and she was free from her bitterness. "If the Son shall make you free, you are really free."

And that kind of freedom is the best kind of miracle...

olger

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

**sigh**

I don't think I asked my question so that it was understood....but I don't know how else to ask it...

thanks anyway, everyone

[cricket]

What happened to this thread? It totally derailed from the get-go!

I thought it was an interesting question. One that I'd like to know as well. Why didn't the Romans record anything in their history books concerning the walking dead? Why not anything about a missing "supposed Savior" from His tomb??

[Woody]

**sigh**

I don't think I asked my question so that it was understood....but I don't know how else to ask it...

thanks anyway, everyone

[cricket]

Even if it weren't considered a miracle, why is there no Roman account of the disappearance of Jesus' body? Why is there no Roman account of the missing dead?

The question here isn't even one that focuses on whether or not there were miracles...it focuses on the historical record of such events as occuring.

[Woody]

Quote:

why is there no Roman account of the disappearance of Jesus' body?

If you were responsible for someone to be held ... would you broadcast that you failed? OR would you sweep it under the rug?

Announcing to all .... REDWOOD has failed.

Here ye Here ye ... Chris(ti(an(e) is a failure.

Come one come all .... Rome is a joke. Jesus lives.

I really don't think that you can expect Rome to report something that reflects so poorly on their system. Just as you and I would not want our failure reported.

[cricket]

And, as for the other bodies that had just up and disappeared?

[Woody]

Jesus is King not Rome and rules over death ... even his own death.

[cricket]

Are you saying that IF the Romans had reported the missing bodies, then they'd be announcing to all the world, "Jesus is King, not Rome, and rules over death?"

[bevin]

Sorry Pam, I took off on the wrong foot. I'll try to answer your actual question this time.

There are three parts to the answer

(a) The Roman's were polytheistic. They believed in physically meeting gods, and in seeing miracles. It happened "all the time". So yet another god doing yet more miracles was not news.

( The Books of the NT are just some of the many books that were being passed around in NT times - and many of them were either deliberate forgeries or deliberate modifications to other books. Indeed there are books in the NT that are unlikely to have been written by the person we nominally ascribe them to. People were used to false claims being made all the time - and discounted them accordingly.

© A lot of material that was widely available then has been lost. Simply no known examples of it left.

/Bevin