Abortion Ban is Now Legal

[Woody]

Supreme Court Upholds Ban on Partial Birth Abortion in 5-4 ruling today.

What do you think about this?

[David Koot]

Aha! The strategy has worked! The conservatives counted on Bush installing justices favorable to their cause. He has delivered, and now the justices have delivered. This victory, of course, is only the first step in the agenda of the Christian right. Not far down the road will be Sunday legislation, based, overtly, on health, labor, environmental and family concerns, as well, perhaps, in the wake of the Virgina killings, as the need to 'restore' moral vitality and spiritual awareness to America.

Dave

[Woody]

Let's hasten the Lords coming.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Not far down the road will be Sunday legislation

Only an Adventist would connect abortion to Sunday laws. This is the amazing thing... [hold onto your seat] In the United States, abortion was illegal for nearly two centuries and.... [guess what?] no Sunday law. Well, unless we want to count the Sunday blue laws but I fail to see their connection to the abortion laws.

Allowing democratically elected government to place restrictions on abortion is key to reducing the number of abortions. The law in question does not ban abortion. It restricts abortion by only allowing it during the first part of the pregnancy. It still gives the woman months to decide if she wants to have an abortion or not. This law restricts, it doesn't ban. This is a good law. This law is not going to create a black market of abortion providers that ends up killing women during the process.

And yes. Yes! Yes!! Yes!!! Bush has come through. This is why we voted for him. Two big ones for the man.

[Woody]

Sunday laws have already happened and have been upheld nationally by our courts.

[Robert]

Good for Bush on this one....

[Dr. Shane]

Sunday blue laws have happened. Sunday laws that carry the death penalty have not happened since the US became a nation. However during the colonial period there were Sunday laws with the death penalty but again... they had nothing to do with the abortion laws.

[David Koot]

Only an Adventist would connect abortion to Sunday laws.

[Robert]

The Christian right has a legislative agenda. One item on that agenda has been abortion.

[David Koot]

1] How do you know this?

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

The revival of Sunday blue laws is another item...

...some of those boys run at the mouth--spill the beans. Pat Robertson is one example.

The "Sunday law" that Pat Robertson favors is a blue law. That is a law that require most business to close down on Sunday. He is not advocating Sunday-only laws that would forbid anyone from observing Saturday or whatever day as a sabbath. He is such a quack I doubt he has any significance on Capital Hill anyway.

Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family is one of the most influential of the Religious Right. This is Focus on the Family's position.

Quote:

Where Sunday Laws are concerned, I can assure you that Dr. Dobson does not support them and never has. In his opinion, legislation mandating the observance of Sunday as a holy day would be unconstitutional and an offense to millions of Jews and Seventh-Day Adventists in our nation. It would also contradict the teaching of Scripture: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days" (Colossians 2:16).

Only the far right of the far right are even supporting Sunday blue laws - which are not the mark of the beast.

[David Koot]

The "Sunday law" that Pat Robertson favors is a blue law. That is a law that require most business to close down on Sunday. He is not advocating Sunday-only laws that would forbid anyone from observing Saturday or whatever day as a sabbath. He is such a quack I doubt he has any significance on Capital Hill anyway.

[Neil D]

I am sorry to disagree with you guys, but something doesn't feel right.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

I think a good chunk of church goers would be in favor of such... Sunday blue laws are, indeed, the first step in enforcing the mark of the beast. That is, one cannot buy or sell on Sunday.

Most Sunday Christians I know buy, sell and watch football on Sunday. I don't see a good chunk lobbying for Sunday blue laws to return. A good chunk maybe in favor of banning alcohol sales on Sunday but that is about it.

[David Koot]

Well, that is not what I have observed. But, at this point in time, I don't feel inclined to do further research. It would be an interesting project, however.

[David Koot]

I am sorry to disagree with you guys, but something doesn't feel right.

Interesting. Please explain.

[Dottie]

About the Sunday Laws. The city where my daughter lives has recently repealed the Sunday laws. One can now buy things on Sunday.

[Gerr]

Supreme Court Upholds Ban on Partial Birth Abortion in 5-4 ruling today.

What do you think about this?

It's about time. I hope the Supreme Court will soon see the stupidity of a law that allows a mother-to-be to kill the unborn in the first or second trimester without guilt, but would charge the mother of murder if she kills it seconds after it's born! Yeah, I hope the Courts will soon restrict abortion only for rape, incest, or the mother's life in danger, and put an end to abortion ad lib.

Gerry

[Dr. Shane]

The problem with that (and I am 100% against abortion) is that in countries like Mexico and Kenya, where abortions are illegal, the abortion rate is about the same as in countries where it is legal without restrictions. However a lot of women are dying from botched abortions and the black market for abortions thrives.

The reason I believe that it is so because many of the women that seek abortions are scared, desperate and not rationale. Banning prostitution, drugs or gambling actually does reduce the amount of it done in a society. Of course, it doesn't stop drug and gambling addicts once they are addicted, but it does prevents thousands from getting addicted in the first place. The same type of reasoning doesn't apply to abortion. Men and women are going to have sex and despite easy access to birth control, women are still getting pregnant unexpectedly. These women are so desperate, they will do anything to end the pregnancy.

If we want to reduce the number of abortions, what seems to be the best way is to keep it legal, so no black market arises, but place restrictions on them and provide counseling for these women so they are not so scared, so desperate and can think rationally about the issue.

I agree that there is no right to abortion in the Constitution. Many legal scholars agree that Roe v. Wade was based on bad law. However once it has been ruled on and a precedent established, it starts to become established law even though it is not in the Constitution. So in order to reverse Roe. V. Wade and let the states decided individually if they want to ban it or keep it legal, it will take several little victories like this one over the course of several years.

[CyberGuy]

That law will last two years until a democratic Congress overturns that law with a democratic president in charge.

[Dr. Shane]

I seriously doubt that. Polls have repeatedly shown the public is against partial-birth abortion. Any attempt to overturn the law will be met with literally millions of dollars spent by pro-life groups in a campaign against the law being overturned. Since the majority of the public supports the ban, only the most liberal, idealogical Congressmen would vote to overturn it and I doubt either Obama or Hilary would sign such a bill with the majority of the public supporting the ban.

An AP-Ipsos poll done last year showed that only 19% of Americans favor abortion on demand without restrictions. When the partial-birth abortion ban was passed, 62% of the public supported it.

[Robert]

However a lot of women are dying from botched abortions and the black market for abortions thrives.

This is why abortion on demand was allowed in the first place. Why not say the same of drugs? Since people are taking too much and/or getting bad drugs, make it legal so they get better quality controlled drugs.

[Gerr]

There are thousands and thousands of people that would want to adopt unwanted babies. Many Americans spend thousands of dollars and go to other countries just to adopt babies. Given this option, I think most women would rather take this than endanger their lives and also face criminal charges.

Gerry

[CyberGuy]

Quote:

I seriously doubt that. Polls have repeatedly shown the public is against partial-birth abortion. Any attempt to overturn the law will be met with literally millions of dollars spent by pro-life groups in a campaign against the law being overturned. Since the majority of the public supports the ban, only the most liberal, idealogical Congressmen would vote to overturn it and I doubt either Obama or Hilary would sign such a bill with the majority of the public supporting the ban.

I do not know which polls you are talking about. The polls I have seen support the partial birth abortion. I guess it depends are whither you are in a blus state or a red state. In the blue belt where I live they support the partial birth abortion.. Polls support that. Polls can be manipulated. Have a poll in any area and it can go the way you want it to. Ask christian fundamentalists and you get a skewered poll.

[CyberGuy]

Quote:

There are thousands and thousands of people that would want to adopt unwanted babies. Many Americans spend thousands of dollars and go to other countries just to adopt babies. Given this option, I think most women would rather take this than endanger their lives and also face criminal charges.

It depends on the race of the baby. White babies are in high demand. Black babies are not. It is unfortunate but that is the stats I have read.