Coffee - Health Food!

[Tom Wetmore]

Coffee may be good for you say the experts - Coffee for your health

Tom

[Halfstep Denise]

It's been very good for my health!

Halfstep Denise :llama

[Woody]

Tom ... Those who believe in Ellen White and a popular SDA author .... believe partaking of coffee to be a SIN.

"Tea and coffee drinking is a sin, and injurious undulgence. which, like other evils, injures the soul" Ellen White ... Counsels on Diet and Foods p.425

"From this statement one might deduce that decaffeinated coffee is ony 3% sin , but it may be more than that. The fact is that if all caffeine could be removed, the drink would still be highly deterimental"

This is the reason that many SDA pastors will not baptize you if you drink coffee and it is a reason for disfellowship.

[Gail]

If you don't drink a lot of coffee, then it can be used to get rid of a migraine.

If you drink it habitually, then its withdrawal can CAUSE headaches

[Steve Murphy]

This is the reason that many SDA pastors will not baptize you if you drink coffee and it is a reason for disfellowship.

I doubt its many pastors. A few may not baptise you. I don't think any would disfellowship. Thats at bit far fetched to me.

[Gail]

I've never heard of anyone being disfellowshipped for coffee drinking- has anyone else??

I remember a couple years ago at Camp pitch, I was talking to a pastor's wife about treating migraines with coffee and she agreed with me. Other than that I don't know of coffee really being a topic of converstation.

[David Koot]

Coffee is not a good thing to drink. For well over a century, the Adventist church taught against its use, and to my knowledge baptismal candidates were taught to stop drinking it. However, in recent years, this seems to have changed, in some quarters. It is not because coffee has suddenly become healthy.

Dave

[Gail]

That's true, but have you heard of someone being disfellowshipped for that?

[Woody]

Well Gail. I have personally witnessed many who have been refused baptism solely on the basis of coffee drinking. And as far as disfellowship ... I would refer you to the Church Manual and Fundamental Beliefs. The Health Message is one of the biggest reasons for disfellowshipping members. And it is within church rules to disfellowship for this reason.

I will agree with you that once you have been baptized ... you are given more permission to break church standards. So ... unless there were additional reasons ... more than Coffee ... I doubt you would be disfellowshipped although you could be.

Ellen White calls drinking coffee a sin that injures the soul. So ... I am not sure why anyone would continue to drink it.

Just like those who are living in adultry ... drinking coffee is a habitual sin every time you drink it according to Ellen White. And she has lots to say about those who continually live in sin.

I am sure that many liberals have decided to over look this. But personally I've made the decision to abstain from it. To each his own though is what I say. I would not condemn anyone for drinking it.

[Gail]

She herself drank tea as a medicine, though. That's not the same as habitual drinking

[David Koot]

That's true, but have you heard of someone being disfellowshipped for that?

I have never, ever heard of anyone being disfellowshipped for it--nor can I imagine such a thing being done. The church in business meeting wouldn't stand for it. If a small group tried to ramrod it through, it would split the church if the pastor were to support them, and he would end up being transferred. As for baptismal prep, I dont think it is mentioned that often.

Dave

[bevin]

What about Mountain Dew or any other caffeinated beverage?

What about chocolate - how does theobromine differ spiritually from caffeine? http://www.xocoatl.org/caffeine.htm

/Bevin

[aldona]

I was at an Amnesty meeting last night where people of all religions (and many with no religion) spent hours talking about ways to relieve human suffering and stop people from being persecuted, oppressed, imprisoned for their faith or political views, tortured etc.

Now this morning I turn on my computer and open up the forum and read that drinking coffee is a sin that harms the soul, on a par with adultery.

Is this for real? Are there really people who serious think like that? At least when the early Quakers boycotted sugar and coffee, it was because of the suffering experienced by the slaves and low-paid farmers who labored to bring these products to the market.

I keep thinking back to my student days, talking to the president of the local branch of the Vegetarian Society, who said (on finding out I was an Adventist), "I'm surprised you are bothering to get involved with our organization. Most Adventists I know are totally focused only on the benefits of vegetarianism on their own health, and don't care about how it relates to the environment, or cruelty to animals, or fair distribution of resources."

How long can I continue to belong to this organization without having to give myself a lobotomy?

aldona

[Taylor]

Aldona,

I live in a large SDA medical community and I see active involvement with radio programs, TV programs, classes, mission work, volunteer work in the community etc. I am sure that there have been and continue to be people who are SDA who do not care about anyone other than themselves, but there are many of us (including you) who are not like that. There are many SDA who are into protecting the enviornment, lobying for children and families, involved in humanitarian work etc. Unfortunately, the bad news always hits the news before the good news does. You will always find "strange people" with "strange attitudes" in every organization but you can also find incredible examples of genuine caring and passsion for issues that affect humanity around us. I pray you can meet more people like that who happen to also be SDA.

[Woody]

Let me tell you about a fairly recent event while I was on our local SDA church board.

The Board had approved a request to have our local Red Cross emergency community support meeting at our church. But then some loyal works oriented member made a stink about allowing the group to serve Coffee in our fellowship hall and kitchen.

You guessed it. We had to cancel our involvement with the Red Cross Emergency Team due to the COFFEE issue. I had to inform them that they would have to go elsewhere if they served coffee. And they did go elsewhere. What a witness !!!

[Gail]

We have SDA churches in our area that would not have a problem with that.

50 cents of one, half dollar of another.

I'm sure that other SDA churches would have taken a stand against.

Personally, I can see both sides to the issue. I don't know if the churches that would serve coffee are promoting it (that can be debated, I guess) but just serving a hot drink that is customary. I think that is how they view it.

[Amelia]

When I get a migraine I drink whatever has the most caffeine in it. Although, I don't drink coffee ONLY because it tastes nasty to me. I have also heard from friends who have asthma that hot coffee eases tight lungs.

[Woody]

The way I read it .... I don't think Ellen White has made any exceptions to her "sin" statement. But I could be wrong.

[Bravus]

If the grounds (no pun intended) on which EGW made her statement were health grounds, and new medical evidence suggests that it might (in moderation) be *beneficial* rather than harmful to health, does its use remain a sin? In other words, how much conceptual inertia is there, and does the evidence matter?

[Woody]

Good Question Bravus.

Do we rely on medical science or Ellen White?

[Gail]

Re: the asthma

I don't know about that but I do know that it will dehydrate. I've had some bad experiences with that (dehydration), so I will never be a heavy coffee drinker myself.

[Bravus]

A slightly different spin on my question, Redwood. My point was that Ellen White was herself relying on medical science - the medical science of the 19th century - when she made the statements she did. She said using coffee was a sin *because* it was considered medically harmful. If the medical science of the 21st century suggests it is not harmful, does that change the way we think about what she said?

Or of course, you *could* just make it a loyalty test...

[Amelia]

Coffee, tea, soda pop etc are diuretics. If you drink these and no other liquid like water, you will become dehydrated.

[lazarus]

Just like those who are living in adultry ... drinking coffee is a habitual sin every time you drink it according to Ellen White. And she has lots to say about those who continually live in sin.

So if you are an adulterous coffee drinker its all over for you. Give me a break Red, There are many many many other health practices that a damaging. EGW refers to coffee because that was perhaps the most obvious and popular substance that was damaging.

I think its assertions like yours that have led to many in the church misuderstanding the health message and nullify its effect. Some SDA's would never drink coffee but drink soda, hot chocolate, too much "vegetarian" food, Mc D's etc.

If pastors in the NAD disfellowshiped all their coffee drinkers the division would have to revert to being a mission. Many pastors would have to disfellowship themselves.

[Amelia]

What about the smokers? And those who drink alcohol? How about those who break the rest of the 10. Sabbath and adultery aren't the only ones up there. Disfellow them and shoot, no church at all.