Doctors of death! Why?

[lazarus]

Seven are believed to be doctors or medical students, while one formerly worked as a laboratory technician.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6265500.stm

What would make doctors want to set off bombs?

[Woody]

$$$$$$ ???

[aldona]

$$$$$$ ???

So...A doctor is working in a hospital, making lots of $$$.

Then he decides to blow up a bomb, which will probably kill him and dry up the income to his family.

And his motivation is...$$$?

Come on, people, your anti-doctor bias is showing. It's a depressingly predictable reaction, whenever the word "doctor" is mentioned, to make some sarcastic remark about money.

I am appalled and ashamed that members of my profession would show such disregard for human life (what part of "first do no harm" do they not understand?) but I hope my analysis of their motives would be a little deeper than that.

aldona

[Woody]

Aldona I feel you have misinterpreted my intentions of this post. I do not mean to deface doctors. I've worked in the medical profession for 20 years. I have many friends who are doctors.

I am sorry you took offense. This is what I meant:

The terrorist have lots of $$$$$ . From what I've heard ... they are able to hire and pay lots of money for their services to be fulfilled. This doctor either bought into their philosophy or he bought into the money that was offered to him for doing this task.

In NO way was I referring to his legitimate income that he makes being a doctor. Doctors earn every bit of their income with long dedicated hours. I apologize if I offended you unintentionally.

Let me close by saying that ANY professional in any profession could do this for money and doctors are not exempt.

[Bravus]

Thankfully, they seem to have been astonishingly inept terrorists for smart people. Here's a(n indirect) link to some analysis from The Register... by a guy who used to be in bomb disposal: http://www.bravus.com/blog/?p=856

[Gerr]

Thankfully, they seem to have been astonishingly inept terrorists for smart people. Here's a(n indirect) link to some analysis from The Register... by a guy who used to be in bomb disposal: http://www.bravus.com/blog/?p=856

That's because they are used to saving lives, not destroying them!

Gerry

[K]

I find it interesting to read the posts. It kind of shows how much we really do not understand the people we are fighting. I don't believe any of the medical people were motivated by $$$. I think they are motivated by hate. There is so much hate that it overtakes even smart people.

It makes me feel bad for the many medical professionals that I know who are of middle eastern decent. They will automatically be put into that "Dr. Terrorist" group.

[Woody]

Quote:

This doctor either bought into their philosophy or he bought into the money that was offered to him for doing this task.

Good Point K. I will insert ... Philosophy of Hate.

[Neil D]

Quote:

I think they are motivated by hate.

Sorry, I don't buy into the "philosophy of hate" theory. I know that Americans believe that other members of the globial community are totally envious of American lifestyles and just plain hate Americans simply because they are Americans...

Having been to 5 different countrys, and seen the poverty, and the ignorance of other countries, I see reasons for that dislike of America. I see American economic oppression, I see American politics and bribery being globally induced and played out. I see the injustice of the American economics corrupt the individual of other countrys, and I wonder at our long lived country of just over 200 years.... To me, it's a wonder that we haven't blown ourselves out of exisitance yet! It's a wonder that some country hasn't declared war on us, or that we haven't spawned more terrorists. It's amazes me that American's patriotizm and self righteousness hasn't isolated us from the world community as it is....

And don't think that I am some innocent, lacking in life experiences. I have experienced prejudice simply because of my SDA background. I have experienced rejection because of me being white, middle class, and having some affluence...

No, the "philosophy of hatred" against america is not a viable theory.

[K]

Neil . . . . what would motivates a person who seems to have everything to blow themselves up in an attack.

It isn't dollars . . . so what is it.

I saw a news report on tv about a 6 year old in one of the schools we set up in Iraq. He told the reporter that he would not sit next to a Shite in the classroom.

It struck me that we have missed the boat in understanding how deep the hate is. . . . how young it starts. . . . and how can you help anyone who can't stand his neighbor.

[Woody]

The Doctor was not blown up.

Also ... some suicide bombers do it for the money that is given to their family. I saw a news broadcast on 60 minutes regarding this.

But then again ... those on 60 minutes are not all that intelligent anyway.

[Stan]

They do it to try to bring freedom, to their people, whom they view as being oppressed.

[K]

Stan. . . . I think that is partly correct. . . . however they were a lot more repressed with the last regime.

Redwood. . . . don't you think Doctors could have easily sent money home. I think their potential as working citizens was worth a lot more than any amount of money their families got from a suicide attack.

I still stand on the hate issue. I think it is deeper than we can imagine.

[Neil D]

Neil . . . . what would motivates a person who seems to have everything to blow themselves up in an attack.

It isn't dollars . . . so what is it.

[aldona]

Quote:

I saw a news report on tv about a 6 year old in one of the schools we set up in Iraq. He told the reporter that he would not sit next to a Shite in the classroom.

Could this happen in an Adventist setting?

How do we talk about, and portray, other religions? What message do young children get from the way their elders speak about Catholics, or Muslims, or atheists, or Freemasons, or other groups whose teachings or philosophy are incompatible with ours?

The "Sunni vs Shiite" phenomenon in Islam seems very similar to the "Protestant vs Catholic" mutual hatred that was the norm in Ellen White's day and for many centuries prior to that. Fortunately it is not as virulent today - at least in most nations - but do we, as Adventists, help or hinder this development by our words and actions?

aldona

[K]

We as a denomination do a great injustice to other religious beliefs. Have you ever been to a revelation seminar?

That is a good gauge of what we teach and think.

[Woody]

This is very true K . But on the positive note ... the church IS changing and growing. It is not static. We are starting to do a much better job.

I think you would appreciate hearing a sermon from my wife on the topic.

[lazarus]

I saw a news report on tv about a 6 year old in one of the schools we set up in Iraq. He told the reporter that he would not sit next to a Shite in the classroom.

In some SDA schools I know of its the parents that have the problem. They don't want their kids sitting next to too many black hispanic kids in class so they move their kids to "whiter" schools.

While I think of it, it happens in churches too! I guess its not hate it just a preference and anyway we all will be the same color in heaven anyway. "as white as He is"

[Woody]

Quote:

In some SDA schools I know of its the parents that have the problem. They don't want their kids sitting next to too many black hispanic kids in class so they move their kids to "whiter" schools.

Laz .... I sincerely doubt that they left because of the "color" of the skin. More likely they left due to an atmosphere , quality of the school or cultural reasons. Did you actually hear them saying that they were leaving because of the color of the skin of the black and Hispanic kids?

I find that actually the Blacks and Hispanics leave because of skin color more than Whites. Why do we have Black Conferences and Black churches and campmeetings? Why do the Blacks separate themselves. I would like to see more integration. I want to experience that culture. But that is just me I guess. When at Andrews ... I went to the All Nations SDA church. I did so because I liked the cultural diversity.

I think it would be healthy to integrate ALL of our churches.

[lazarus]

Laz .... I sincerely doubt that they left because of the "color" of the skin. More likely they left due to an atmosphere , quality of the school or cultural reasons.

"Whiter" covers all of the following:

Atmosphere

Quality

Cutural

Its more about perception that reality.

Quote:

Did you actually hear them saying that they were leaving because of the color of the skin of the black and Hispanic kids?

They have said it to other white people who tell me.

Quote:

I find that actually the Blacks and Hispanics leave because of skin color more than Whites. Why do we have Black Conferences and Black churches and campmeetings? Why do the Blacks separate themselves.

LOL, you could make money on Comedy Central.

[Woody]

Hey .... What is it with these Muslim doctors. I heard on the news that 45 of them were planning attacks. WOW !!

[K]

Yes I can proudly say that I have seen change, however in the south. . . . I doubt I would ever have an opportunity to hear your wife preach as women are given the behind the scenes rolls.

I have yet to see a woman from Texas or the Southwest conference preach or even be asked to preach in our church. We are ethinically diverse, except when it comes to women. We have 2 women elders, but most people can't stand the thought.

So the answer is yes I would love a sermon, and I would so much enjoy hearing it from a woman.

[K]

I have witnessed that very thing after my children moved on to boarding academies.

Our church school had white flight. Not kidding. It was so bad that people were in professions that were very desirable, and they picked up and left the area to move to other places where the schools were more balanced. (their words) They left houses which still have not sold, and they moved to high dollar high income areas.

Our church school is now 90% african american, and 10% white and hispanic. When they left they also took with them a lot of support and $$$$$.

I don't know how that can happen in a few years, but somehow the changes were so subtle that nobody picked up on what was happening.

I am so glad that my kids went to church school and had lots of different cultures there. It has made my girls the beautiful kind young women that the are today.

[Woody]

Quote:

I doubt I would ever have an opportunity to hear your wife preach as women are given the behind the scenes rolls.

As the only Pastor for two churches ... it is kinda hard for her to be just "behind the scenes". And as a woman ... she sometimes gets MORE attention that should would like. I will spare the details.

[John317]

Quote:

I doubt I would ever have an opportunity to hear your wife preach as women are given the behind the scenes rolls.

As the only Pastor for two churches ... it is kinda hard for her to be just "behind the scenes". And as a woman ... she sometimes gets MORE attention that should would like. I will spare the details.

Women have been preaching for many years in the Loma Linda churches. I have never seen or heard of any resistence to them preaching here.

I personally believe the Bible's view is that the church should not call women to occupy leadership positions over men in the church, but that is my private conviction. One of my teacher's, Lynn Mallory, who until recently was president of Southeastern California Conference, was a very strong supporter of women becoming full pastors. I doubt the world church in General Conference will ever vote to go that way.