Times, they are a changin' #2

[David Koot]

I believe that consensus is an excellent goal. Also, it seems to be in harmony with the promise of the Holy Spirit, to guide believers into one accord, and into all truth. Why doesn't it happen? Interesting, interesting question. Intriguing. Not sure. But I have a few suggestions, for what its worth, maybe to help the atmosphere and deescalate things:

1) Each person look for something in the other person's post that s/he can agree with. Mention that item in the response.

2) Make an effort to understand where the other person is coming from. If the person says things with which one strongly disagrees, first, ask 'Why?'

3) Assume the best about the other person and his or her motives, and give a positive interpretation to his or her words.

4) Say something positive about the other person. Find something to affirm about her or him.

Reflecting . . . War is easy. It comes naturally. Peace and goodwill need to be worked at, both to achieve and to maintain.

Dave

[David Koot]

In reflecting further on this issue, I would like to share a personal experience which I have been having on this forum. There are some who post here who are poles apart--light years apart, if you please, from my beliefs and perspectives on certain issues. However, I immensely enjoy carrying on a discussion with them, and our posts back and forth reflect, I believe, our mutual respect and esteem. One such person is D.Allan. Another is Bravus. And there are others. The polite interchange of ideas with such individuals--even disagreements, but handled with civility and consideration--has, in my experience, proved to be stimulating, edifying and quite enjoyable. The process CAN work.

Dave

[olger]

Amen.

olger

[Neil D]

In reflecting further on this issue, I would like to share a personal experience which I have been having on this forum. There are some who post here who are poles apart--light years apart, if you please, from my beliefs and perspectives on certain issues. However, I immensely enjoy carrying on a discussion with them, and our posts back and forth reflect, I believe, our mutual respect and esteem. One such person is D.Allan. Another is Bravus. And there are others. The polite interchange of ideas with such individuals--even disagreements, but handled with civility and consideration--has, in my experience, proved to be stimulating, edifying and quite enjoyable. The process CAN work.

I have no problem in having a lively discussion...I have no problem in discussing my expereinces with the theoretical moduals that are out there...I have no problem disagreeing with some people, in ether poltics or relgion.

My problem is when there is abuse...Of course, perception is in the eyes of the beholder. Currently, the main board has a place where Ed and I are at logger heads. Ed has made some pretty significant contributions to the board...both good and bad. It's the bad ones that everyone seem to remember. and it's the bad ones that counter balance the good ones.

There are times when people have made some pretty stupid statements....Like when one memember, who used to be something percieved by Christians as anti-Christian or even Satanistic in nature, felt that the church was being abusive/apathic toward them, responded with the possiblity of leaving the church and going back to thier old way of life as the anti-christians attitudes were nicer toward them. It sounded like they were blaming God and that they were going to worship the anti-Christian god.

It's one thing to hear it once....or twice...or even three times or 5 times...but when you threaten each time to go worship the anti-christian god and you are blaming God on each occurance, sometimes a swift kick of reality is needed.

Now I know that we will post our feelings on the board, and sometimes we need that sympathy. But are we truely doing those people any favors when we encourage them to remain in that pathetic state? I mean, come on folks, under what conditions would you tell your parents to 'get a life', if your parents were blameing all the bad things that was happening to them on your best friend?

Perspective....responding to posts is also about perspective...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

NeilD wrote:

Quote:

There are times when people have made some pretty stupid statements....Like when one memember, who used to be something percieved by Christians as anti-Christian or even Satanistic in nature, felt that the church was being abusive/apathic toward them, responded with the possiblity of leaving the church and going back to thier old way of life as the anti-christians attitudes were nicer toward them. It sounded like they were blaming God and that they were going to worship the anti-Christian god.

It's one thing to hear it once....or twice...or even three times or 5 times...but when you threaten each time to go worship the anti-christian god and you are blaming God on each occurance, sometimes a swift kick of reality is needed.

Before you start condemning former pagans, you'd best be understanding the nature of their path. It is addictive - even more so than drugs. There may also be other contributing factors. Ever hear of PTSD? People stumble and fall. And you feel it your duty to kick them in the butt ?

[olger]

Neil seesm to be advocating a measure of tough love as opposed to enabling those who seek sympathy instead of reality. True Neil?

There is a place for empathy and a place for a-good-talking-to (as Grandpa used to say) under the banner of love. Both have been needed in my life.

olger

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

And just how would you know what reality is to a pagan?

Tough love does NOT get a former pagan who stumbled back to looking towards God. It is most useful to have another former pagan to talk with.

Again, I say, is it YOUR duty (or ANYONE's duty) to kick the fallen in the butt????

NO, IT IS NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

And barring the availability of a Christian ex-pagan, a sympathetic, non- condemning Christian can work wonders. A condemning *Christian* can push the former-pagan further away - just as he could push away any struggling Christian.

Yes, there is times for tough love. This is not one of them..

[D. Allan]

Having PTSD will turn anyone against 'tough love'! Don't ask me how I know...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Having PTSD will turn anyone against 'tough love'! Don't ask me how I know...

[D. Allan]

h5

[Neil D]

And barring the availability of a Christian ex-pagan, a sympathetic, non- condemning Christian can work wonders. A condemning *Christian* can push the former-pagan further away - just as he could push away any struggling Christian.

Yes, there is times for tough love. This is not one of them..

Yes, this may be true...we are not mindreaders. And for that, I apologize.

But It is when conditions are as outlined in my previous post...A child who threatens to run away from home repeatedly, needs to know that nothing is stoping him from running away...'cept himself.