Sex Abuse Allegations Filed Against Salem Church

[JeriAnne]

Just Wondering if there are any others who would like to tell how the church "Resolved" their sexual abuse issues?

[Lil Star]

Just Wondering if there are any others who would like to tell how the church "Resolved" their sexual abuse issues?

I doubt you will see anyone answer this question only because it is so hard to talk about the abuse issues in the first place. Usually we are told that we must have taken things the wrong way. Or that is not what s/he meant. I would imagine that those that have had sexual abuse within the church don't talk to many people about it for all the repercussions they would in the end receive. I know that they don't get resolved by keeping them within just the church.

What about the abuse that is not sexual within the church? What happens about that? Parents hitting or beating their children and such. Are we doing anything to help within the church for that? Can anyone really recognize that in a child? Are we teaching those that are teachers within the schools or even the churches what to do about it?

[Dr. Shane]

Nice to see you around Lil Star. I think the church is making progress in dealing with family issues. Adventist TV is a real blessing in our home and the church is using its networks to bring a lot of these issues out of the closet and talk about them.

[Amelia]

Is the Survivors N Thrivers website still opperating? That is a good place for people to give voice to their abuse and outcome.

[CyberGuy]

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What about the abuse that is not sexual within the church? What happens about that? Parents hitting or beating their children and such. Are we doing anything to help within the church for that? Can anyone really recognize that in a child? Are we teaching those that are teachers within the schools or even the churches what to do about it?

My brother told me a bunch of kids came into a mini golf park he works at and cursed and cursed and then left when the cops came. The cops said that social services is to blame for much of our problems in our society because parents are afraid to physically punish their kids because social services will put parents in prision for spanking kids now.

Solomon said "Spare the rod and spoil the child" I do belive that at times physical punishment is neccessary.

On the news there was a report of a dad who was arrested because he spanked his kid with a belt. How many of us were spanked with a belt as kids. I was. Do we think we were abused and that our parents deserved prison for it. NOT AT ALL.

Part of the problem with kids running rampant and having no respect for the law is that their parents do not have firm control of their kids. The law takes away a key element of punishment that is necessary.

Once my sisters kids set fire to their rug playing campfire. They came within inches of setting the curtains on fire. When asked what happened they said the fire just started. My sister and her husband tore up the rug to find the source and found nothing. Then her husband saw the ciggarete lighter. He asked who lit the rug on fire. All the kids lied. My brother in law slapped the boy and then he confessed. Now that slap left a small bruise on the kids face and the teachers reported that to social services the next day. When my sister and her husband came to get their kids the next day they were met by the police and arrested for child abuse. They got a high priced lawyer and beat that rap only because the police knew they had a weak case that was doubtful they would win in court but still they should never have been arrested in the first place.

Our society is getting more violent due to the fact social services is getting out of hand in punishing parents for punishing their kids. Heed Solomons warning. Proverbs 22:15

"Foolishness is bound in the heart of the child but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."

Proverbs 23:13 "Withhold not the correction from the child for if thou beateth him with the rod he shall not die"

Proverbs 23:14 "Thou shalt beat him with the rod and shall deliver him from hell."

Granted the rod or belt should be used sparingly and ONLY as a last resort but the government should not get involved in the parents punishing their gets by spanking.

[JeriAnne]

I agree that children need strong boundaries and that physical punishment can be an effective way to discipline. But I found when raising my children that using that physical punishment in the first 5 years of life meant that I could make a big impact with less punishment! Usually by the time the kids are 5 they know if they can control their parents or if their parents are in control! After they were over 5 I found that physical punishment wasn't as effective as other disciplines. Cause and Effect becomes VERY useful then!

When children are shown boundaries and are treated lovingly with their own boundaries respected it really doesn't take physical violence to discipline them! Letting them make as many age appropriate decisions for themselves and then not interferring with the natural outcomes of those decisions also lets them develop personal understanding of the way things work. Taking the time to talk to kids and to engage them in discussion of the various scenarios that could happen also helps them learn to think ahead. KIDS TAKE TIME!!!! If you give it to them you won't NEED to resort to physical violence to discipline them!!!

It is when kids are disciplined inconsistently and with no consideration for their boundaries or their intelligence that they become angry and rebellious. When I realized that most of the violent Criminals currently in our prison system have a history of abuses of all sorts I understood it is the abuses that create most of societies violence. It IS also abusive to withhold appropriate discipline from a growing child trying to learn where the boundaries are! But discipline must be respectful in order to be effective! It is possible to beat more demons in that to beat them out of a child! It is adults that must accept the responsibility to protect and to train the children in their care. Children are NOT equipped to do that for themselves!

[CyberGuy]

It is when kids are disciplined inconsistently and with no consideration for their boundaries or their intelligence that they become angry and rebellious. When I realized that most of the violent Criminals currently in our prison system have a history of abuses of all sorts I understood it is the abuses that create most of societies violence. It IS also abusive to withhold appropriate discipline from a growing child trying to learn where the boundaries are! But discipline must be respectful in order to be effective! It is possible to beat more demons in that to beat them out of a child! It is adults that must accept the responsibility to protect and to train the children in their care. Children are NOT equipped to do that for themselves!

I disagree that criminals are criminal due to an abusive father who spanked them. I agree that spankins should be used sparingly and ONLY used as a last resort. I myseelf only had to resort to spanking 5 times or less over 15 years of my experience of child rearing with two kids. Other means are just as effective. Withholding of previleges or bikes or as they get older Car privileges etc. Grounding etc. But above all make sure the kids know they are loved and you are not punishing them because you hate them but because what they have done may hurt them if that kind of action continues in the long run.

We have all from time to time made the mistake of punishing when we are angry with the kid. That is a mistake. That is what makes the kids rebellious and angry. I have been guilty of that in the past. Fortunately my kids turned out well. Both are adults now and doing well. Both are responsible adults drug free and still in the church. I thank God for that.

For the most part I let my wife handle the discipline. I only stepped in when she could not handle the situation alone. Never let the kids think they can divide and conquer. It is a tactic I used as a kid. (Grin) Know which parent will allow you do do what you want and ask that parent and leave the other parent out of the loop. I always said. Ask your mom. That way that game did not work with me. LOL

Anyway I think the criminals in our prisons are due to lack of supervision as the kids grow up more than an abusive parent.

[Lil Star]

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For the most part I let my wife handle the discipline. I only stepped in when she could not handle the situation alone. Never let the kids think they can divide and conquer.

I really do not have much to say. Except that it has been my experience that if the discipline is left to one parent or the other then the kids in some way WILL divide and conquer. Doesn't really matter if the parents can see it or not. It is still done.

Also, there is a huge difference between discipline and outright beating or hitting a child. There is punishments. I remember times when I knew of kids getting hit with all types of things that were not even a belt. It forever scarred them.

It truly is bad when the social services/law won't let you discipline your children. Although, where I live, I asked a police officer if I could discipline/punish my child and as long as I did not have blood or bruising showing then it was alright. It is when a parent takes it too far that it is wrong.

[JeriAnne]

However this discussion of discipline is light years away from the sexualizing of a child in a church sanctuary or program by those who were supposed to be leading and teaching!!!!

While it is an interesting and important discussion it does not belong in this thread and diverts and minimalizes the experience that is described here!!! Of course that is probably what is intended and I am sorry I contributed to it!

We need to keep the discussion going on this painful topic. Too many children have had their relationship with God and the church and other human beings rendered nearly impossible because of sexual abuse! It is far more prevalent than anyone wants to admit and that is because of fear and silence!!! To speak out with courage is the best antidote for it! Doing so is NOT easy and there are many deterants!!! The church and the society that the children that follow grow up in will not be safe unless the discussion continues!

[LynnDel]

I know those cases happen, Cyberguy (not addressing here my problem with why a parent would ever feel justified in slapping their child in the face), but there are hundreds of cases of real physical abuse that are never reported, many because not all abuse shows bruises.

[aldona]

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I asked a police officer if I could discipline/punish my child and as long as I did not have blood or bruising showing then it was alright.

People used to say similar things in the past about husbands "disciplining" or "punishing" wives, too.

aldona

[CyberGuy]

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It truly is bad when the social services/law won't let you discipline your children. Although, where I live, I asked a police officer if I could discipline/punish my child and as long as I did not have blood or bruising showing then it was alright. It is when a parent takes it too far that it is wrong.

As A kid I always bruised very easily. After a spanking my mom would put me in a tub of with baking soda as I would be black and blue. I would get a big bruise just from bumping hard into a chair. As I grew older that easily brusing went away. This was back around 1960 before the days when you could get arrested for leaving a black and blue mark on your kid.

I was not scared emotionally or physically from these spankings.

My mom used the belt on my until I was 16. She stopped when one day she raised the belt to spank me and I raised my arm suddenly in self defense and my elbow caught her chin by accident and I nearly knocked her out. She then decided I was to old to spank. She realized that I could easily resist if I choose to and harm her. I would NEVER do that but she know I could so the spankings stopped.

[CyberGuy]

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I know those cases happen, Cyberguy (not addressing here my problem with why a parent would ever feel justified in slapping their child in the face), but there are hundreds of cases of real physical abuse that are never reported, many because not all abuse shows bruises.

You obviously never had a kid nearly burn down the house with the entire family inside and then lie outright for several minutes while you tore up the rug to find the source of the fire and then you find the lighter. It was an impulse. Wrong of course but hardly justified by the police getting into the act. Fortunately my brother in law was a doctor and could afford a high priced lawyer and the state backed down. Obviously they did not think they had a strong case.