Adventist Schools

[Guest]

I am looking for feedback on our schools?

1) Boarding Academy - A thing of the past?

2) Educational Hierachy- should we have more local control or more conference control?

3) What is your experience with adventist schools (K-12 only please).

Mr. D

[speecher]

In my personal experience, the grade schools were not christ centered in the children's behavior nor was their bad behavior punished by the administration. If we are to excuse bad behavior as "kids will be kids" then why spend over $2000.00 to send them to christian schools? At least in the public schools I have a legal recorse to wrong done to my children, while the SDA's schools just said if you don't like it here, leave. Oh, and your bill is due.

Academy...sex, drugs and rock & roll. Need I say more...there were more sex, drugs and rock & roll then the public school my sister went to...and that was years later that she went to public school!!! Bullying, lying...got real good at that...I could lie to you and look you in the eyes at the same time b/c it was all about how you looked!

I would go to public school if I had a chance to do it all over again. Pretty sad, huh?

[GraingerGuy]

I wouldn't trade my academy days for anything.

Yes...there are going to be some public schools that are better as far as atmosphere goes, but they are schools that are much worse. Just because the public school that your sister went to was better than the SDA school your sister went to does not mean that all public schools are going to be better! It depends on the year, the people, etc. And honestly, you get what you look for in any school. If you go to a school wanting party, you will find it. If you go to a school wanting study, you'll find that too.

You also need to look at boarding academies as a different animal. With boarding school you see the same people all the time therefore more things will happen on campus as opposed to a public school where things can only happen on campus from 8 - 4 or so.

1 and 3)I personally went to Monterey Bay Academy. I loved it there. It was good for me because that it where I first REALLY found Jesus. It started me down the path of being a musician, I found my girlfriend whom I have been with for more than 4 1/2 years, I have made friends that I will cherish for the rest of my life there. Yes, there were a few downs, but honestly, any school I went to would have given me downs. So no, I do not think that boarding schools are past their time. I think they are still needed.

2) I think that schools should be a little more local control. The teachers and parents and students are there all the time whereas the higher ups maybe come every few months. (if that) The bigger boy should listen to the locals a lot more when it comes to the school. I mean, make a general set of rules that we have to live by, and then let us interpret those rules as we see fit.

My two cents... <img border="0" title="" alt="[smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[darn]

I went to church school up to grade nine and then on to public school high school. For college and university I went to our schools. following college I taught in our church schools for 11 years.

When I compare my years in church school to my years in public school I would have to say that though I loved the public school, I would not send my children to public school. Yes, our schools have problems, but I learned things in public school which I still struggle with today and much of what I know and remember in the Bible I learned in Bible class in church school. No, I would not want to take a chance of loosing my child/ren for all eternity by sending them to public school.

The years I spent in our college and university I look back on as the best years of my life. A person will always get out of our schools what you want to get. If you are looking for a 'good time' you will find it. If you are looking for scholastic excellence, you will find it. What you want is what you get.

As far as a local church or community taking more control over a school than a conference, as a teacher my response is a definate, NO. The quality of education is a responsibility of the conference. They have more knowledge of government requirements and how to work with the red tape, etc. than would a local church or community. It is their duty to know this. And as a teacher I feel that if there was more local input, the discipline of the school would also decline. Parents are linked too emotionally with the student, their own child/ren to act impartially.

[dedicated]

Darlene,

Very well put! The conference administration knows the law, and is also necessary if there is a local problem.

I teach in an Adventist school. Our students are not perfect, but they are disciplined when necessary, and loved all the time. With the public school you will never have a child go home and pick up a Steps to Christ because of a need for a closer relationship with Christ as a result of a month long worship topic.

I've had my children in both schools and I am grateful to God that they went to the Adventist schools. Did they have a bad time in public? No. Did that school help them in their relationship with God? Again, no. And that is one of the main reasons they need Adventist education. What does it benefit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?

dedicated

[WayneE]

I have two children. I recently took my oldest (15 year old) son, out of church school and sent him to a local state school. At church school he was undisciplined and his grades were declining fast, but after being at this new school, his grades have improved and his attitude to life has also improved. The main reason I first took him out of church school was because of financial reason as I have found that our education system is only for wealthy Adventists. I know he is not receiving spiritual input in his school life, but at home we have regular worship time and attend church every week.

[Fran]

The majority of the experiences I had in church school was horrible. We were dirt poor. Mom, a single parent with 7 children, made sure we all went to church school.

90% of the students were from financially secure families. We were outcasts; and were treated as such by our fellow classmates.

I had a child, adopted 5 more. I sent each and everyone to church school. Can you believe it, the same thing happened! Our daughter drove a VW Rabbit that was 3 years old. Didn't have a scratch on it and kept it clean, but the "rich" kids told her she couldn't park her trash near their cars-BMW's-Mercedes- she had to park in the back of the lot and walk even though she was there before the rich kids.

I still sent them because I believe they need to learn the christian as well as education in Christion Education.

Did I do wrong? I don't believe so. Did we all suffer tramatic experiences? Yes. Some have left scars that are still deep and sore, but we all know the truth! They know how NOT to treat their fellow man. They have compassion on the poor. They are always willing to help. (Except my last one! He is Lazy!)

After being on school boards for years, I believe the true mission of christian education has been forgotten.

I believe in using excess capacity. If a teacher can teach 25, but only 22 have enrolled for that grade, I believe we should place 3 student in that class that could not pay the regular fees.

I also believe that the parents of those 3 students should be required to pay something. They need to sacrifice along with the church. It increases their committment and they will show the child just how important the Christian is in Christian Education.

I fear that as time flies by, we are loosing sight of what we are supposed to do with our children.

Guess I am old fashioned. I have always believed that Christian Education does not cost, it pays!

[Doug Meister]

Well, I guess I am out voted here. I have seen so many kids trained in a strict environment as in our schools, go astray and into the world because they felt like they led a sheltered life. School should not be for a Christian education, it should be for secular education only. Christian education and religion are for the home and church.

I went to SDA schools thru Hi school, and they are largely responsible for where I am today: Not married, not a success at anything, and a drop out. I went to one of those ritzy high class schools where everyone was a doctors son or daughter or a ministers son or daughter. They wouldnt give me the time of day. A few ago I got the e-mail address of one of the brothers of one of the ministers sons in my class. This guy is a Conference president. He wouldnt even give a small reply after all these years. Dirt poor - still dirt. I never went to any of the class reunions. And now by accident I joined Classmates.com and registered. There are very few of my class there. And since they want $36 to send an e-mail to a classmate - I wont buy into that, probly only to get another rejection. Let these rich kids contact me.

But God still led my life and this life on this world doesnt count. The next world does. Sure hope its not like California.

[:blue]--Ðøug <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ™</font>

[Guest]

Wow, when I posted this topic last week I wasn't sure what I would learn. I would like to respond to some of the responses already made.

Background

While I do not have the breadth of teaching experience as some of you, I have taught the past three years at three different SDA Schools. There are clearly children that belong in our schools, and those that would be better off in other schools. I have found that NON-SDA students are not generally happy (though I have always enjoyed having them in the class, and probably identify with them better).

"Rich Adventists"

I was a product of public education till into my college years. I was raised Lutheran, and became an SDA in my 20's. I did graduate work at an SDA university. So, I can't identify with those of you who went through the "system". I did go through a public Elementary school that was ranked number six in the USA, and some of the community leaders included the Governor, members of Congress, corporate leaders in the retail and banking industry, and personal friends of the then President of the United States. Yet, even the rich were not snobs to poorer students. I did see some examples of "rich Adventists" in college and at a school I taught at.

"Public vs. Christian"

I teach the Junior High group, a hard group from what I have been told by others. I see students who are part child part young adult, struggling to share one brain and one body. They are very perceptive of others, especially adults. Most may be Baptised, but most can't tell you much about Adventism except "keep the Sabbath Day Holy". They compete for the attention of their peers, and struggle with the temptations of a world that was far different when we were young. They have to watch what they say on the internet to a faceless person who might be 14 as they claim, or an adult predator waiting for them to slip and provide information which could help them be located. (I had at least three female students in my class this year who bragged that they spent most of the evening in chat rooms communicating with males of all ages.) They need a stronger base in Christianity and Adventism. Something our schools do not seem to provide. I teach some of our fundamental beliefs once we finish the standard religion text book.

"Conference vs. local control"

Financial concerns do account for lack of enrollment. But, so does the teacher, other faculty, the administration, other students, and the school board. There are no doubt some wonderful schools out there. I have experienced one good one out of three (I wish I wouldn't have transferred). There are wonderful teachers and administrators, and then there are some who to share an old college proverb...some who are only there because they couldn't make it anywhere else. The only problem with that is that from my experience, we don't "police" ourselves. The local board is made up of parents, pastors, and concerned local, I say local people members. The Conference may be physically located nearby, or may be a state away. Teachers are conference employees, and the conference has the power to make more changes than the board. What about public schools? The Superintendent answers to an elected public School Board, with the Board having the last say. An Administrator in the public system must have completed a required degree in Administration, our schools do not require that, but may require courses over a period of several years.

I suggest that we...

1) Return to Christian Education as the main point, but provide a strong academic base. (The students will have to earn a living until the Lord returns).

2) Return full school control and the hiring/firing of teachers to the local School Board, with a representative of the Conference available for a legal opinion if needed. We need to "police" ourselves at a local board level. (Teacher credentials and training are already monitored and supervised by the Union Registrar, so the conference doesn't handle that).

3) Make more of an effort to be mission schools, and provide more outreach activities to the non-SDA students, while strictly upholding our fundamental beliefs not pushing our lifestyle preferences "down their throats".

4) Financial - Get away from "us and them" and ask each member of the local congregation who can to help support a student fund for any student who wants to go to their own church's school. Return to local church schools. Small local schools instead of a larger consituency school. Sister White seems to support this. Also, perhaps some of that academy money the conference spends could be diverted to elementary schools.

P.S. Doug, I think you make a big difference, I really enjoy your comments, but I don't agree with all of them.

Mr. D

<small>[ June 15, 2002, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Mr. D ]</small>

[darn]

Mr D. Thanks for your post. This is an interesting topic and you have some valuable suggestions. I admire people who teach those grades. They are not easy to teach.

I agree that church schools are not what they should be. Our focus should be on academics and a stronger Bible emphasis. Though they are not what they should be, they are still places where children learn positive Bible truths that affect them for their whole lives.

Some of you sound like you had a very difficult time at church school. My family did too. There were eight children and we were dirt poor. Yes, we had the rich and poor kids in our church school. Yes, we were picked on terribly and we hold some very bad memories. However, that made us grow up stronger people and helped us to be what we are today. We are all strong in the Lord and the majority of us became teachers ourselves. Seeing both sides has made us compassionate and sensitive towards all children and I think that was reflected in our classrooms.

I have had children from large poor families in my classroom. Yes, they were not always treated well by their peers, but I have noted three things:

1. They grew up being stronger and more compassionate people.

2. Most became adults who contributed much to the world and to the church.

3. Though their childhood may have been difficult they have a positive outlook on life.

No doubt, there is room for impovement in our schools and the public system seems to be very inviting at times, but having seem both sides, I would still go through all the bad times I had in church school again. I am determined to 'make heaven my home' and I feel that church school has helped me more in that area than the years I spent in public school.

[dedicated]

Wow! I really feel badly for those of you that have had such a horrible experience. I know that it is hard to move past that even when you leave school. Where are these schools? I know that some schools are pretty much run by those with money, but I wonder what the rich kids lives would be like if they act like that in church school if their religious education were left to the home and church. My dauaghters all had a wonderful experience in Chkristian schools-ours-and we did not have money either. And at our school that I teach at we have children that receive help and no one else knows about it and they are treated no differently and love the school. Yes, we have privileged children too, but the school (K-10) is like a large family and even our eldest students are wonderful with the youngest. Maybe it's the Midwest, maybe it's the families, maybe, but I like to be believe it is because God is asked to be a part of our school throughout the day. We had a student this year that flunked in public school last year, hang around with the wrong crowd, etc...at our Adventist school he made the honor roll, started avoided his high school buddies because of their activities and is planning to be baptised this summer. Hasn't anyone else out there had a positive experience. And for those less than ideal times, sometimes it probably seemed pretty stinky on the ark too, but Noah probably worked to make it better... dedicated

[speecher]

I can tell you that the academies that I know of as being terrible are:

1)Auburn Adventist Academy, Auburn Washington

even the members of the AAA church wonder what is going on at the school, but really have no control over what happens at the school. I really resent that the academy did not address the issues of bullying, and elietism, they just treated it as "kids will be kids". I was not involved in drugs or drinking, but knowing what I know now and looking back, that is a big part of the reason that I was the odd man out. When the main thing to talk about is Saturday Night Live and The Tonight Show, how good is the education being done? There was a history teacher there when I was a student (83-87) that was still a teacher until a couple of years ago!!!! And he was already teaching the kids of kids he had taught!!! Boring...the church schools are part of the reason that I left the church...pretty sad.

I was the odd girl out because I:

1)wore conservative dresses

2)didn't wear make-up

3)didn't date

4)didn't have my own car.

If following the SDA standards place a student in the "geek factor", what are we using our schools for?

[Guest]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I am looking for feedback on our schools?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How's this for feedback?

Washington County News

Teacher admits sex abuse of students

06/11/02 by DAVID R. ANDERSON

HILLSBORO -- A former Tualatin Valley Junior Academy teacher and administrator admitted in Washington County Circuit Court Monday that he "crossed boundaries" and sexually abused three former students. Ronald Ernest Rehling, 59, was sentenced to more than six years in prison as part of a plea agreement with prosecutors.

Thank God that NOT ALL SDA schools are like this

It is up to the parents first to educate their children about molesters, abusers and pedophilers.

The children need to be aware of that alarm in their stomach when they are touched in the wrong places.

Here is a quote written by Ken Wooden, in his book "Child Lures" What Every Parent and Child Should Know About Preventing Sexual Abuse and Abduction. p. 3: [Ken writes] One molester told me,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> "Give me a kid who knows nothing about sex, and you've given me my next victim." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NOTICE: I am advocating EDUCATION (very early years) Children have been known to be sexually abused as early as 2 months of age.

[Guest]

Speecher:

I am sorry to hear you left the SDA Church over their Educational System. I am leaving the system after three years, part of the reason being the poor leadership and lack of policy. Yet, I have no plans to leave the SDA Church. They are separate parts of the same big enity. You should try to effect change from within before leaving the church. I have done so, although I admit that it is not easy. Please re-examine your beliefs and pray, pray, pray. The end times will bring a big shaking, and it is my hope that this will flush some of the non-repentant "bad apples" from our SDA Church. Think about it. If you want to vent, please e-mail me at davedavison@kc.rr.com

Mr. D. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

[Gerr]

I have fond memories of my 3 yrs in SDA academy. I was baptized while there. Oh yeah, there were tormentors there, two were preacher's sons, and one a teacher's son. I feel a good foundation was laid for me there.

My son had a totally different experience. I sent him to our church schools from first grade thru high school. His miserable experience started when he was skipped from first to third grade. The kids he caught up with in third grade made it hell for him.

We are by no means rich or poor, yes, he is a doctor's kid, but he was treated like a pariah in high school; he was never in with the "in" group. So after h.s. I sent him to a public university. Today, he goes to a Baptist church, and has nothing good to say about our schools or the church. I had little inkling of what he was going thru in h.S., otherwise I would have sent him to another school.

GerryC

[Neil D]

I have listen to this thread with interest. My wife is a principle and a teacher in the Washington conference...

Our experience here is totally different than in Idaho Conference...The people here are of a broader spectrum of liberal and conservative in thier behavior and thinking...Children here are more spontaneous, less disciplined, and treat each other with less respect than in Idaho...My wife is working to instill this into the children..early on...[she teaches grades 1-4]. This is our first year here in Washington, but I believe that she has laid a good foundation for next year and that next year, the kids will be better yet...

Parents are the key and the teacher is the one who makes the observation. The Parent need to work with the teachers to help make the whole school a good safe enviorment for kids to learn, about the world and themselves...

[Jack Chaffin Jr]

What was learned by my family in SDA schools:

1. How to be excluded - how to have a very strong "us and them" sense, and if anyone was different in any way - how to make them feel awful.

2. How to be sexually abused and see the school take no notice of it or admit any responsibility - in fact work actively to smear the name of the family in the community.

3. How to make kids who spend 14 years in SDA educational systems despise studying the Bible.

4. How to ensure that the church is viewed as loveless, rejecting, abusive, intolerant, and unkind.

Jack

[speecher]

Gee, aren't advestist schools great! What a winner attitude they have instilled in so many of my friends. None of my friends are church members anymore. One of my clearest memories from the academy is that of a girl being kicked out of school because of how she cut her hair...the message was loud and clear that if you don't look a certain way, Jesus and the SDA church want nothing to do with you!!! She worked hard, got good grades, and I doubt she attends church anymore. What a message that was, I never changed how I looked for fear I would be kicked out!!! Church schools stink!!!

[Stan]

I never went to a SDA School.

My friend Don Laing did.

Our graduation from High School was the same year.

My clas has a lot of people doing menial work and only a few of us went on to further our education. Many of my class have died.

His class, with all of its 'restrictions and rules' created a group of people that is contributing much more to society, (I am talking about MD's, Dentists, lawyers etc,) in my opinion than my class has. One of his class has died and she was murdered.

On the other hand, Military Academies, can make out schools look like a Sunday School picnic when it comes to rules. They produce world class leaders.

Stan

[Guest]

I went through our school system from Grades 1 though 16 or college. During that time I went to four elementary schools one academy and one university. Yes there was rules but being on the west coast we were more liberal and since I was sort of on the conservative side on my dress style and hair cuts anyway I never had any problems. I greatly enjoyed by adventist school system experience. Both my kids are going through our school system same as me and they to have no problems.

I think you guys are looking at all the negative stuff and not looking at the good stuff in our schools. Yes our schools make mistakes but remember this. According to a survey done by the church most kids left the church NOT because of the school but because of their home experience. If the parents are over restrictive it will tend to drive the kids out of the church. After all the kids can come home and get away from those rules at the school anyway.

Jim

[Doug Meister]

Stan, could it be that contributing to military success at producing leaders is that those schools attract that kind of person. And lawyers dont contribute to the society. And I know a lot of MDs who are charlitans and butcher people and suck their money dry. Dentists arent far behind either.

[:blue]--Ðøug <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ™</font>

[fifiqueen]

My daughter is currently attending an adventist school and I must say that I am truly disappointed.

I have a few issues

1: Because most of the staff have been placed due to their connection with someone else within the school there is no real recourse. For example. The chaplains wife and sister are both teachers. The Head is best friends with one of the teachers who is friends with the conference presidents wife. Where do you go when you have an issue????

2: Problems are smoothed over with no real satisfactory result. When issues are raised no one comes back to you. It's as though it never happened.

3: The "if you don't like it leave attitude." Why because there inevitably lots of kids on the waiting list ready to get into such a school

4: We are all christians together so don't cause a scene thank you very much.

5: The it will do attitude, not all but some schools are happy with the conditions they work in the fact that the children don't have the best equipement, teachers, resources is not a problem. It will do!!

6. When a parent told her head teacher that her child was being bullyed she was told that it couldn't possibly happen!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

If I sound a little bitter, it's not quite the case. It's just the dissapointment overwhelms me sometimes

For me the christian schools have a higher calling, a high level of professionalism must be seen. God wants us to stand head and shoulders above the rest as a beacon to the world. An example of what God can do when he is our focus.

It should be a means of witnessing as parents and children witness christianity in action.

For those of you whose experience was life changing for the better. Praise the Lord. If we could concentrate on making that the norm then what a witness we would be offering.

I hope that those of you with children in church schools will push for change where it is necessary.

Blessings

Fifiqueen

<small>[ June 20, 2002, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: fifiqueen ]</small>

[Psalms Too]

May I add to the fifiqueen (my wife's) post.

This frustration has prompted us to relocate our child next term to a non-SDA school.

They have more accountability, education and I suppose the onus is more on us to provide the spiritual backbone at home (nothing new!!).

This may not be the case for all parents, but alarm bells must start ringing when adventist professionals (or not) start moving their children from our schools because their needs are not being met. It hurts more especially when you are paying for it!! I try not to see the negative, and am even on the board, but the apathy and lack of vision is mind numbing!!

Stay blessed <img border="0" title="" alt="[big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ June 20, 2002, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Psalms Too ]</small>

[speecher]

One of the real discouraging things to me was working at the academy and getting $2.00 an hour applied directly to my bill, and that was only in '87! Minimum wage was way above that! What a rip for cheap, almost child labor. I was told they could do that b/c it was a private christian school. What are kids paid now at adventist schools?

[Jack Chaffin Jr]

Mr D,

re: "Call the authorities".

Did. The guy who did it had already committed suicide. The state told us that since there was no prosecution, that they had nothing to do. The school, on the other hand, made it their mission in life to attempt to run us out of town as liars and generally horrible people. The principal was heard to say, "They deserve what they get", and refused to meet with us. The vice principal and the Educational Secretary for the conference did meet with us, and said that a) they don't believe anything happened to our kids and they CERTAINLY weren't going to give these ridiculous charges any credence, and weren't gonna contact any other parents who had had this teacher for their kids.

The North American Division's response was, "See your local school leaders" and "are you gonna sue us?" They DID assemble a panel of four lawyers who came up here to investigate us in preparation for a possible future lawsuit, even though we told the NAD that we didn't believe in suing the church or school.

Yep. It was certainly a great experience, having our kids in a "christian" school. Neither one of them attend SDA churches today. I wonder why?

Jack