Church Growth in the NAD

[Stan]

Art and Drama will attract those who like Art and Drama...

It is really about quality of life, and being fulfilled.

Tired of being born? Try being born again.

[Dr. Shane]

I may not grasp the entire issue of abstract verses concrete thinking. I was taught this concept through philosophy. There I was taught that generally westerners are abstract thinkers and those in the far east are concrete thinkers. Both tend to come to the same or similar solutions for problems but the way they arrive at their solutions are different.

I was never taught that abstract thinkers were above concrete thinkers or that abstract thinking was a phase of development that followed concrete thinking. From what I remember, abstract thinkers tend to ask the question "why" more often when faced with a given phenomenon and that is more typical of western thought than eastern.

Now that is all based off from what I learned from philosophy and I may have been steered in the wrong direction. I have read a lot about the lack of church growth in westernized countries and until now have not read anything about abstract verses concrete thinking. That is not to say it is irrelevant but it certainly isn't getting a lot of space in our papers.

Is Steve Case's book in our ABCs? What is the title of it?

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

We, as a Church, are not offering to fill the needs, wants and desires... of the unchurched etc etc

I think fulfilling needs, wants and desires is key. As we look at the developing world, the needs, wants and desires are different. I don't think it is so much that western society is unchurched more than the developing world inthat both societies are filled with unchurched populations. The contrast is more in the needs, wants and desires of the unchurched in the western world are different than those in the developing world.

Yet I see this coming back to activity on the local church level. Ministries like Pathfinders, small groups, AY, prayer meetings, men's/women's/family ministries etc. can meet the needs, wants and desires of the unchurched in the western society although the approach of the ministries themselves has to be tailored to the society it is in.

The Coca-cola approach doesn't work. The Frito-Lay approach does. Coca-cola uses the same formula for its soft drinks all around the world. When the ingredients change it is rather insignificant and due to the availability in a particular region and not because they are trying to adapt to the tastes of the area. Frito-Lay, on the other hand, changes its recipes from market to market in order to target the tastes of each area. Doritos in Mexico are different than those in the United States which are different than those in Sweden.

[Guest gem]

The Coca-cola approach doesn't work. The Frito-Lay approach does. Coca-cola uses the same formula for its soft drinks all around the world. When the ingredients change it is rather insignificant and due to the availability in a particular region and not because they are trying to adapt to the tastes of the area. Frito-Lay, on the other hand, changes its recipes from market to market in order to target the tastes of each area. Doritos in Mexico are different than those in the United States which are different than those in Sweden.

Hmmm, interesting. Very good point. Different cultures have different needs and may require different strategies.

[nuff sed]

"Coca-cola uses the same formula for its soft drinks all around the world. When the ingredients change it is rather insignificant"..posted by Shane

If you have ever visited the Coca-Cola exhibit at Epcot Center you will immediately see how wrong you are in the above statement. There is a multi fountain there with spigots labled from different countries of the world. Believe me when I say that there are BIG DIFFERENCES in the tastes of different countries. The worst in my opinion is Italy. It tastes like medicine. I would expect that there will be a similar setup at the new Coca-Cola museum in Atlanta, Georgia. I wonder if it will be listed on the "places to visit" at the next G.C. Session in 2010?

[JeriAnne]

I agree! And the Coca Cola Museum in Atlanta has long had the same international Coke Bar! It is at the end of the tour!

I find the different flavors VERY different too!

[Dr. Shane]

Well, so much for the Minnesota State University business school. I do know that in Mexico they use regular sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup.

Quote:

If you have ever visited the Coca-Cola exhibit at Epcot Center you will immediately see how wrong you are

If one looks at that sentence carefully they will note the word "you" used three times. That is the type of personalization of posts that focuses on other members rather than the topic of a thread. One can also note that while I may be wrong about Coca-cola's formula, it takes nothing away from the point I was making - in fact it adds to the point! Imagine rewording the response something like this:

When I visited the Epcot Center Coca-cola had a multi fountain there with spigots labled from different countries of the world. So it seems they do change their formula just like Frito Lay.

Doesn't that sound much friendlier? If someone wanted to go all out to disagree in a friendly manner they could also add something like:

Perhaps there is some misinformation out there to the contrary.

[Guest gem]

"Coca-cola uses the same formula for its soft drinks all around the world. When the ingredients change it is rather insignificant"..posted by Shane

If you have ever visited the Coca-Cola exhibit at Epcot Center you will immediately see how wrong you are in the above statement. There is a multi fountain there with spigots labled from different countries of the world. Believe me when I say that there are BIG DIFFERENCES in the tastes of different countries. The worst in my opinion is Italy. It tastes like medicine. I would expect that there will be a similar setup at the new Coca-Cola museum in Atlanta, Georgia. I wonder if it will be listed on the "places to visit" at the next G.C. Session in 2010?

Well,well, this is interesting. Maybe I should ask my brother-in-law, he's one of the chemists in Coca Cola Bottling Co., Central PI; but I doubth he would tell me the secret. The things that I have noticed the most about Coca Cola between Asian and North American countries are the taste and how it is presented to the public or consumers. Coca Cola in PI taste sweeter than Coca Cola in Hongkong, well to my taste buds...hehehe. The sweetness of Coca Cola in PI is about the same as in North America. Only, the PI ones are mostly sold in glass bottles and North American Cokes are mostly in plastic bottles and cans. Initially, I thought maybe it's because using glass bottles is easier process - they just sterilized the bottles and reused them. Perhaps it is more cost efective than using plastic bottles. But no, I was wrong, because Coca Cola in plastic containers and in cans are now widely available there. But people prefered to consume the ones in the glass as they said it taste sweeter. Not too sure if there is a difference in formula.

But what this has to do with the original question:Church growth in the NAD, esp. among the non first generation immigrants. As mentioned on the earlier post, different cultures have different taste. Should we provide the same doctrine but present it differently, according to the cultures' taste? Should we do a slight tweaking like the medicine-taste Coke in Italy? If these different tastes are loved by the consumers in those countries, shouldn't we try a different approach to appeal the taste of our non first generation immigrants here in the NAD? Should we try the Coca Cola's strategy to attract more costumers....or should I say, souls? Is there any danger of using that strategy and would it hurt our church here?

[Dr. Shane]

Actually "I" and "we" statements are not generally perceived as being inflammatory. One might look at my example:

"When I visited the Epcot Center Coca-cola had a multi fountain there with spigots labeled from different countries of the world."

This is simply a person stating their first-hand experience. It certainly isn't as combative as saying "you are wrong."