Are you a Christian or a disciple of Jesus?

[Tom Wetmore]

Hmmm....

[Tom Wetmore]

No trick intended... thought provocation was intended...

Is being a follower of Jesus the full meaning of being a disciple of Jesus? (My dog is a true follower of me, happily at my heels wherever I go, even regarding me with great affection, obedience and loyalty - but I don't think my dog is my disciple...) The emphasis is what difference, if any, is there between being a Christian and being a disciple of Jesus.

The majority of Americans claim to be Christian. What percentage of that majority can we guess to be disciples of Jesus?

Tom

[DrWhoCompanion]

I'm very new to Christianity. I read with interest the stories of Christ and His disciples and that's what I'm clinging to the most right now. I'm hanging on His words.

[Tom Wetmore]

You are on the right path! A disciple hangs on every word of the Teacher...

[olger]

I am a witness.

[nuff sed]

IMO You have to be "More" than a 'witness"....you have to be a "reflection"...

[olger]

Ok. I am a reflection, then. Hope so anyway.. :)

[Clio]

I am a disciple. Sometimes I am a bit slow-witted and it takes many lessons for me to learn what Jesus and Abba are trying to teach me, but They have patience.

There is a big difference in being a follower or a disciple. Followers are easily distracted, can follow from afar, or close in.

Disciples are diligent in developing an intimate relationship with Abba, who learn from the lessons Abba brings to them, who understand the difference between spirit and soul, and who understand what it means to be Blood Bought Covenanted Child of the King of Kings.

Disciples can teach without offense, because they've walked it out.

How many do you know who've walked out the pain to which they are trying to minister?

Jesus walked out every step... Can we, as His disciples, do any less?

Clio

[LifeHiscost]

Disciples can teach without offense, because they've walked it out.

Clio

In view of a couple of Scripture, I question the conclusion.

"Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes! " Matt 18:7 NKJV

"And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house." Matthew 13:57 KJV

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

I'm hanging on His words.

Praise God!!

"In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”"

Gen 22:18 NKJV

[D. Allan]

Followers of Jesus are very rare in my opinion. He was a mystic. A faith-healer. Spent hours and hours meditating. In the mountains, and olive groves. Until he was 'born-again' as he told Nicodemus. Does anyone today know what that means? Very few. very very.....

[John317]

Here are a few of the main Bible verses that explain what it means to be "born again," or rather, "born from above". It essentially means to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

(Jesus never had to be "born again," because he was holy and filled with the Spirit from the time of his conception.)

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1: 12,13).

"Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, because... the word of the Lord endures forever. Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you" (1 Peter 1: 22-25).

"Whoever has been born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly practice] sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot [practice] sin, because he has been born of God" (1 John 3:9).

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God, and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4: 7).

"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him... For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith" (1 John 5: 1,4).

"We know that whoever is born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly practice] sin; but he [Christ] who has been begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him, and the wicked one does not touch him" (1 John 5: 18; see Amplified Version).

[LifeHiscost]

Followers of Jesus are very rare in my opinion. He was a mystic. A faith-healer. Spent hours and hours meditating. In the mountains, and olive groves. Until he was 'born-again' as he told Nicodemus. Does anyone today know what that means? Very few. very very.....

The question comes to mind; Do you read the Bible and if you do, do you believe the words of the Christ?

[D. Allan]

i'm curious why you ask such a question

[D. Allan]

Jesus had to be born again else he had an advantage over us who have to in order to find our true selves.

We don't really know what 'born again' means until it happens to us in our very own personal experience - otherwise it's just another 'evangelical' clique. But after it happens one has a different understanding of what the writers quoted above meant, different that the conventional understandings prevalent today.

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: D. Allan

Followers of Jesus are very rare in my opinion. He was a mystic. A faith-healer. Spent hours and hours meditating. In the mountains, and olive groves. Until he was 'born-again' as he told Nicodemus. Does anyone today know what that means? Very few. very very.....

The question comes to mind; Do you read the Bible and if you do, do you believe the words of the Christ?

i'm curious why you ask such a question

Well, His Words indicate clearly that to know Him is eternal life. And if He is a mystic, how would we ever get to know Him?

"And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ This is the true God and eternal life." 1 John 5:20 NASB

"Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."

Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

"Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves."

John 14:8-11 NASB

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29 KJV

By the reaction often seen, these texts might not answer your question, but there is no doubt, they answer somebody's in their quest to know the God of creation.

"So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it." Isaiah 55:11 NKJV

Regards!

[John317]

For me, the only legitimate way to determine if Jesus had to be born again or not is by studying the Bible, because it's the authority on the life and teachings of Christ. It seems to me that everything else, if it doesn't agree with the Bible, is just our personal opinion.

I fully agree with you that we don't really know what "born again" is until we experience it. Until then, it is just an expression or, as you say, an "evangelical" cliche. I think most people today, when they hear it, think of people who express certain political viewpoints, such as followers of Pat Robertson or the so-called "Moral Majority."

The words "born again" may also be translated as "born from above" or "born anew." Since we can't literally be born again, most translators translate it as "born from above," because it is referring to being born of God or of the Holy Spirit. As John 1: 12, 13 says, it's not something that happens owing to human effort or human will but God's will. The Bible's testimony is that being "born from above" is directly connected to accepting Jesus Christ and that it leads one to love God, our "neighbor," and obey God's commandments.

[D. Allan]

Quote:

And if He is a mystic, how would we ever get to know Him?

Is it impossible to know mystics? Perhaps we would all be mystics too if we were all really followers.

Being 'born from above' is a good way to express it. It is the 'Spirit' that is 'from above' as I see it. Surrendering to the spirit is a 'mystical' process. More than intellectual assent to beliefs. Teachings involve words, but as Saint Paul said words are dead but the Spirit gives life. I get the feeling that for many of us Christians putting the emphasis on teachings and words is a means of protecting us from or a way of avoiding the process of surrender to the 'Spirit'. When the time is right, thought, He will break through all our defenses when we give up on our own efforts when we finally realize they are useless.

[John317]

Quote:

LIFEHISCOST: And if He is a mystic, how would we ever get to know Him?

That's a pretty good quote, but I don't deserve credit for it. It was LIFEHISCOST who said it.

I don't disagree with anything you said in your recent post. Only I would just emphasize 1 Peter 1: 23, "We are begotten [born] again... through the word of God, which lives and abides forever."

[D. Allan]

I was thinking of LHC when I quoted him.

I believe I misquoted another mystic (besides Jesus). Paul said the word 'kills', not 'is dead'; 'but the Spirit gives life' and is much more 'glorious' than the word. Moses, another mystic, would agree with Paul that 'our God is a burning fire.' So how is it that fire gives life rather than death?

Anyway words are no substitute for experience. To know Him is to experience Him. Not necessarily to understand Him.

[John317]

You bring up an interesting point about God's being a consuming fire. Have you ever looked up in the Bible every time God's presence and fire are associated? It makes for a fascinating study, starting with "the flaming sword which turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life," and ending with Rev. 22 that refers to God as the One who gives light to those who are saved. They have his name or character in their minds. In other words, they are in complete harmony with Him.

Moses thrived in God's fiery presence, and was not at all afraid of God but found His presence "glorious." This in contrast to the rest of the Hebrews who were terrified of God and who feared God's fiery presence. Another very interesting point is that at the end, those who are saved live in God's presence whereas the lost are destroyed by His presence. It's as if God opens the gates of the city and invites everyone to come inside, but since sin cannot exist in God's presence, those who continue to hold on to their sin are destroyed by the fire of God, whereas those who have let God take away their sins, go on living forever and ever because they are in total harmony with Him. God doesn't arbitrarily destroy them but rather they are destroyed because of their choices. All God does is reveal His glory, and people's decisions in regard to Him determine whether they thrive in God's presence or whether they die. That is what I get out of those texts.

The question is, how do the ones described in Rev. 22 become like God in character? Isn't that where the birth from above [of the Spirit] comes in? The Holy Spirit is God, and the Bible says that if we ask Him to, He comes and makes His home in us, in our bodies and in our minds. By following His voice, we become more and more like Him, like the One who takes up His abode in us.

[Tom Wetmore]

OK. I think we have quickly drifted away from the original objective of this topic. So, if I may (since I started it) take a moment to make a course correction...

On a practical, feet on the ground, level, what does it mean to be a disciple? What makes a disciple different from the typical consumer Christian?

Consider the meaning of disciple - an apprentice.

All right, carry on!

Tom

[D. Allan]

As an apprentice the objective is to imitate the master is my quick answer.

[Tom Wetmore]

You are definitely on the right track.

[John317]

As an apprentice the objective is to imitate the master is my quick answer.

I completely agree with that. Jesus was really a disciple of His Father, that is, He imitated the Father, and came here primarily to show us what God is like, in order that we would become like Him.