Are you a Christian or a disciple of Jesus?

[olger]

Jesus had to be born again else he had an advantage over us who have to in order to find our true selves.

We don't really know what 'born again' means until it happens to us in our very own personal experience - otherwise it's just another 'evangelical' clique. But after it happens one has a different understanding of what the writers quoted above meant, different that the conventional understandings prevalent today.

Psalm 40 tells us that Christ stepped off of the throne of divinity with these words "Sacrifice and burnt offerings you did not desire, but a body you have prepared for me."

His statement to Nicodemus was in essence "Go back and enter the world the way that I did." Complete submission to the heavenly Father...

I must question that Christ had a "conversion" while in the flesh. That implies that He spent part of his life unconverted, thus invalidating His perfect sacrifice.

oG

[John317]

...I must question that Christ had a "conversion" while in the flesh. That implies that He spent part of his life unconverted, thus invalidating His perfect sacrifice.oG

If he had needed a second birth, it would have meant that before that experience, Jesus was living in the flesh, not in the Spirit. The NT portrays Him, though, as having been "holy" and led by the Spirit from the very start.

[D. Allan]

If he didn't need a conversion, then he escaped a lot of what present-day evangelical-pietistic christians must endure. thus not being tempted in all ways as we.

but this is leading us off the topic, 'practically what does it mean to be a disciple' or apprentice of Christ.

[LifeHiscost]

Is it impossible to know mystics? Perhaps we would all be mystics too if we were all really followers.

[John317]

It's true that Jesus never had to break an evil or sinful habit or overcome sin, which, as sinners, we have to do regularly. However, He had to resist much stronger temptations than we meet, and He used the same power that God provides us in order to resist those temptations. It's a topic that would make for an interesting, worth while discussion on a separate thread.

On a practical level, being a disciple of Christ means that we copy Christ in the way we practice treating people. The words of a song come to mind that says something to the effect that "they will know us by our love." Do we only love when we can expect love or something beneficial in return? If so, there's really nothing unusual in that kind of "love." By contrast, Christ loved and got crucified for it. All of the disciples, with the exception of John, also died for their faith. None of them gained anything materially for being a disciple of Jesus. They certainly weren't out to be popular. They told the truth as God gave them the light to see the truth. They weren't out to save themselves but were willing to lose themselves for Christ and the gospel's sake. We can do the same thing starting in small ways, such as visiting and sharing Christ's love with "shut-ins," the sick, the dying and the dispossessed.

[Clio]

Originally Posted By: Clio

Disciples can teach without offense, because they've walked it out.

Clio

In view of a couple of Scripture, I question the conclusion.

"Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes! " Matt 18:7 NKJV

"And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house." Matthew 13:57 KJV

Regards!

For some reason you seem to think that prophet and disciple are the same. They are not.

I am a disciple. I am NOT a prophet.

The Disciples were uniquely qualified to go and deliver the messages with which they were entrusted because they had walked out every step of those messages with Jesus. Each of the Disciples had a slightly different message and were sent to different peoples because they were each unique, and thus experienced their relationship with Jesus in a unique way.

What I walk out with Jesus, is often brought back around in the form of ministry and comfort to those who are experiencing something similar to what I was led to walk out with Jesus and Abba.

Paul experienced such when he took his ministry to the gentiles. Peter, James, and John also. Luke wrote to a totally different group of people; each ministering according to the relationship and understanding they gained as His chosen disciples.

Although some were later gifted with prophecy, not all disciples are prophets.

Clio

[John317]

...Although some were later gifted with prophecy, not all disciples are prophets.Clio

Exactly right. 1 Cor. 12: 29: "Are all apostles? Are all prophets?" The obvious answer is no. But then in the very next chapter, Paul goes on to point out that although not all have the same gift, all believers are to have the same Christ-like love.

[LifeHiscost]

Although some were later gifted with prophecy, not all disciples are prophets.

Clio

I agree with your post as a whole, however continue to believe offenses will come to anyone who preaches Jesus as the Way, whether or not they have walked the Way, and whether they are prophet or singularly disciple alone, although I'm not inclined to believe anyone not having walked the Way would preach with power.

"And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." 1 Corinthians 9:25-27 KJV

Regards!

[Tom Wetmore]

...On a practical level, being a disciple of Christ means that we copy Christ in the way we practice treating people. The words of a song come to mind that says something to the effect that "they will know us by our love."

Discipling 101! It is just as Jesus said, "Everyone will know you are my disciples by your love for one another."

Quote:

Do we only love when we can expect love or something beneficial in return? If so, there's really nothing unusual in that kind of "love."...

Discipling 201! Love your enemies. As the Dorothy Day quote in my signature says, "I only love God as much as the person I love the least." While we were His enemies, He died for us. No greater love is this...

[John317]

YES!

By the way, in my work-- taking care of often very unloving juvenile criminals who would just as soon knife you as look at you-- I practice loving my enemy. I have seen how love (tough love!) has the power to turn enemies into "friends." I think God put me in this position for the same reason he put Moses out with the sheep for 40 years. I have been doing this exactly half that number of years. I really do enjoy my work.