Flaming others...

[Woody]

Dave ... the last post of mine in comment to your view on excuses for sinning ... I stated that I had to shudder.

This time I am shuddering out of joy. You have stated something so important. I will quote you below ...

Quote:

Paul the apostle reminds not to esteem ourselves more highly than others. Avoid self-importance and, in this context, attaching undue significance to one's opinions.

Wow ... just WOW. I can only speak from my perspective on this. But if we could portray that OUR opinions are no more important or highly esteemed than another ... then we would be successful in our interactions.

I will leave open as to how to do that except that I would make one suggestion that I hinted to previously.

That is that if we could at times just lay back and "explore" OTHERS feelings with the motive to DISCOVER how THEY think. If we could do this with RESPECT and HONESTY without an agenda. AND ... if we could do this on occasions while dropping our personal need to "share" our perspective of truth and need to promote our "truth" ... then the people we interact with here will gain an understanding of the real person inside each of us ... and that is the person who does care about each person and each persons belief.

What would this accomplish? It would allow people here to REALLY be HEARD and understood. There is POWER in that. Then once one is really understood ... then if we could agree that "I'm OK ... Your OK." And agree to disagree with love and NO condemnation.

Well .... I am good at dreaming. But that is my vision. Am I a prophet ? Probably not. But I WILL FULLY ADMIT THAT I AM .....

INSPIRED

[David Koot]

But if we could portray that OUR opinions are no more important or highly esteemed than another ... then we would be successful in our interactions.

So true, Redwood. Like you, I believe that is a key. How we get there may vary. As an empiricist, I am interested in facts and objective reality. Therefore, I do not put a lot of weight on opinions. Fact rather than opinion is my primary interest. The focus, for me, is not on my opinion or someone else's opinion, but in discovering what the facts are. To me, that is an important part of 'doing science.' That is, my quest to discover the facts, the objective truth is the focus, rather than my or someone else's opinions about it. Thus, I don't feel personally threatened or put down when someone disagrees with my work product. It is all part of the quest for truth. I would probably respond with a request for supporting data or documentation.

Others may have different approaches to "the nature of things." For some, the experiential may have greater significance than 'cold facts.' In such cases, it seems to me like it might be harder for one to not so highly esteem his or her own opinion, since it may be based upon his or her personal experience, and thus a disagreement could be perceived as a personal attack or put-down. There is when the fruits of the Holy Spirit can make such a difference. When a person is experiencing humility and meekness, then, even with an 'experiential' orientation, s/he may properly esteem his or her opinion as such, and respect the opinions of others.

Dave

[Woody]

Thank you Dave.

We are all different but we can show respect and be sensitive to each other. I have to believe that.

I have had this discussion with you all before ... but I don't believe there are any "facts" in our discussions of the Bible. I believe there are "interpretations" of scripture. You may feel you have all your ducks in a row ... but then you will discover a new truth. If you feel you know it all ... then why study.

I just think it is important that we be open to new "facts". If we protray that our "facts" are the only way because they are THE facts ... then we will not draw people. People have to be drawn by the Spirit and convinced for themselves. And I do not believe that being told "these are the facts" will help.

Whoops .... I hope that this is not offensive to you. I don't mean it to be directed at you in any way. I am just expressing where I come from. I value you Dave. I see much of God in what you say. You have a great knowledge base that we can learn from. And it is evident that you love the Lord.

I just want to express that it is LOVE that draws people to the truth. Being told that they are wrong and these are the "facts" .... will not draw people. And I know that is not what you are suggesting. I am just expressing what I have observed some doing.

I hope we can all be tolerant of others interpretations of scripture without telling them that "these are the facts". I think we can let the Holy Spirit tell each person what the facts are. But we can witness as to what the Spirit has shown us personally. And I think this is what you are doing. Am I right?

In this way ... we don't portray ourselves as better than another.

[David Koot]

We are all different but we can show respect and be sensitive to each other.

Sounds like a good statement of purpose. Some have one approach to things, others may have different approaches. People have different objectives and priorities. I would think that one thing which may be helpful in carrying forward discussions--and you have already mentioned this, Redwood--is to try to understand the other person. And, the realization that people may have different goals and belief systems. Some want to 'do science.' That is good, and it is needed. Others are primarily interested in personal relationships. That is good, and it is needed. "Live and let live."

Being transparently honest with myself, upon reflection, I guess there is one thing that definitely 'pushes my buttons,' and I gear up to slice and dice. I don't know how else to describe the attitude than, "Full of himself" (or herself). That makes me kick into gear.

Dave

[Woody]

I am with you on that Dave ....

[jasd]

QR Frame:

"...real serious Feng Shui problem..." --Balthazar

Needs degaussing.

[Bravus]

Does flamed SDA smell like pork?

[cricket]

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

[jasd]

Quack.