Conservative vs Liberal

[Woody]

I tried to point out on another thread that GYC is a conservative conference. I get attacked. I got told how terrible my attitude and more is on Conservatives and asked why in the world I would be an SDA? WHY? All because I stated that GYC was a conservative conference.

Hey ... I'm a conservative. You all have stated so in the thread "Conservative ?" Look it up . I like conservatives. Stephen Bohr is one of my most favorite speakers. Last Christmas I wanted and received 20 of his sermons. Then for my birthday I asked and got 10 more of his CDs. This Christmas I asked for his DVDs. Let me just say that I really like some of the speakers at GYC.

But folks ... let's admit it. They are conservative. My point is that I think the conference would benefit from balance.

I used to attend a liberal church. I was always encouraging them to be more conservative and inclusive of conservatives and conservative thought.

I believe the church is now conservative. Being conservative ... I like that. But, I do feel that if we are to grow and become more Christ like in our lives and in our church ... we need to become more liberal as Jesus was. I include myself in that. I feel at times I am far too conservative.

What I see is that we need to be much more inclusive and far less one way or another and I am talking about conservative or liberal. I don't like seeing either extreme. And GYC is just one example of being one side or another. I see far more Godliness in balance and inclusiveness. GYC had neither.

Some will say ...well the liberals have their meeetings. The conservatives have their. Well ... lets call it the way it is. But, I will still cry out to both sides to be more balanced.

I have been accused of not liking some of the speakers ... which is false. I just ask for more on both sides and less of one kind such as Bohr ... whom I just happen to like very much thank you.

You all are free to disagree with me and feel that the conferences should have only conservatives ... that is your right. I was just only voicing mine.

Perhaps we could dialogue on the benefits of having just one side at all the conferences and not having balance if that is what you believe.

[Tom Wetmore]

tu Very well put, Redwood. I am in agreement with your concern here. A pastor that I have worked with for a number of years whose opinions I respect has often voiced a need for the balance the you have suggested. The Church needs both, working together.

While many likely perceive me as liberal (I prefer the label of progressive) most would likely be surprised that in the 3-D world others would tend to view me as conservative. These things tend to be relative... (For example, in world politics the communists in Russia are regarded as the conservatives...)

What I find troubling is that at its foundation, GYC was organized and continues as a reaction against perceived progressive elements in the officially organized activities of the rest of the Church and with the specific intent to not include such elements. I think it fair to say that officially organized activities attempt to find balance and include both conservative and progressive elements. And you will find that many who are perceived and labeled as liberal can be quite comfortable meeting within a conservative context. (I have been a member of a conservative congregation with a very traditional style of worship, even though I enjoy attending "happy church" with much more upbeat music, etc.) But you seldom find the same willingness to mix with liberals among conservatives. It's not universal, but a tendency that I have observed.

Tom

[Taylor]

Tom I like your clarity of thought. Do you think that a conference (not conference office but a gathering..an event like GYC for youth etc.)that stood for truth and yet was progressive could ever be possible? (And I am not judging whether GYC is progressive or not. I have never been to one. I am just asking questions for the sake of discussion because I think we can learn from each other's experiences, studies, and opinions.)

Truth does not change but the needs in this world and how to approach people, and how to wittness do change from generation to generation. Some things that worked 100 years ago would not work now and some things that work now would have had no place 100 years ago.

I think the problem is, that one segment of the church sees everything as black and white and the other segment sees most everything as grey. How do we get people to the point where they realize there are some non-negotiables, there are issues and doctrines and views that are black and white but there are also grey areas and in those areas one must tread softly.

I think one question to consider is "In what case is the truth more important than the person's feelings or needs and in what case is the person's salvation more important than "giving them the whole truth at the moment".? When is silence golden and when does it bring "their blood down on one's head"?

I would be interested in your thoughts on the matter. There are segments on both sides of the fence that don't feel they need balance...because in that "balance" they feel there would be a rejection of truth or a rejection of a willingness to consider that ones position may not be correct.

I also think that some people see everyone as either "in or out" and don't take into consideration Christian growth, the leading of God in their lives, and the possibility that one's previous well-studied out position could be incorrect.

(And this is not an attack on any particular person. I am just thinking out loud and grappeling with this issue.)

[olger]

GYC is Biblical based, not conservative or liberal. That might be a pattern worth considering, rather than boasting one's "conservatism.'

all the best,

oG

[Taylor]

I was boasting my "conservatism"? Where? I am sorry if I offended you. I was just interested in people's thoughts on the subject, since some people think that GYC isn't balanced. I can't speak to that issue, whether it is or not as I have never been to one. I have enjoyed hearing various speakers who have spoken at GYC. I would probably not agree with everything everyone thought at any gathering. But I wasn't trying to criticise..just asking questions for people to think and discuss.

[olger]

sigh.....

I keep forgetting that a post defaults to the one above it. Nay sister Taylor.

blessings,

oG

[Taylor]

It's ok Olger. I just wanted to know if there was something I said that had led anyone to think that. I haven't seen ayone boasting about their liberal versus conservative sides. I see people trying to explain where they come from. Actually both terms can be missunderstood no matter how they are used.

Anyway, no hard feelings.

[olger]

You bet !

Pray that I get the victory over that memory lapse

oG

[Taylor]

Hey no problem. I have no idea then who exactly it might have been aimed at..but no worries. I don't think that anyone is trying to bragg, just define in order to lead to a greater understanding. That is how I see it, at least.

Glad you enjoyed GYC.

[Neil D]

Quote:

used to attend a liberal church. I was always encouraging them to be more conservative and inclusive of conservatives and conservative thought.

I believe the church is now conservative. Being conservative ... I like that. But, I do feel that if we are to grow and become more Christ like in our lives and in our church ... we need to become more liberal as Jesus was. I include myself in that. I feel at times I am far too conservative.

Hey, we got you pegged, now just stay put!!!! Quit moving around and become liberal when we got you pegged as conservative...And don't even attempt to go conservative when we got you pegged as a liberal...Listen, you wishy washy SDA... just stay where you are and quit moving around. YOu are going to get all the issues mixed up and then what are you gonna have! Hog WAsh! Just stay in one camp or the other...and quit flip floppin' all over the place you fish out of water!

I hope I have made myself clear....NO, don't bother to flip flop...don't even want you to go there....

[David Koot]

Well if that DONT beat all! Neil, the quintessential liberal, telling someone to STAY conservative? This is the kind of event that Bravus was talking about awhile back--something about hell freezing over. Neil, I'm proud of you. You are beginning to see the light--or so it appears.

Dave

[Neil D]

Hey, when I am going to shoot at a target, I prefer that it doesn't move.......

[David Koot]

Hey, when I am going to shoot at a target, I prefer that it doesn't move.......

Hehehe. Yeah, but that's not me. I'm too cagey for you. You might do okay plinking at tin cans. But with a moving target, you would shoot wide and high.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

Hey, when I am going to shoot at a target, I prefer that it doesn't move.......

Hehehe. Yeah, but that's not me. I'm too cagey for you. You might do okay plinking at tin cans. But with a moving target, you would shoot wide and high.

hey Swiss cheese,

Just because I like to shoot at targets doesn't mean that I like to kill them....

I am reminded of an ol' timer who told me that when someone was robbing the watermelon patch, they would shoot in such a way so as to let the bullet hit the ground ahead of them....It reminded the robbers that they weren't moving fast enough, and it provided entertainment to the shooter...

Hence, my wide and high shoots....

[Woody]

Quote:

used to attend a liberal church. I was always encouraging them to be more conservative and inclusive of conservatives and conservative thought.

I believe the church is now conservative. Being conservative ... I like that. But, I do feel that if we are to grow and become more Christ like in our lives and in our church ... we need to become more liberal as Jesus was. I include myself in that. I feel at times I am far too conservative.

Hey, we got you pegged, now just stay put!!!! Quit moving around and become liberal when we got you pegged as conservative...And don't even attempt to go conservative when we got you pegged as a liberal...Listen, you wishy washy SDA... just stay where you are and quit moving around. YOu are going to get all the issues mixed up and then what are you gonna have! Hog WAsh! Just stay in one camp or the other...and quit flip floppin' all over the place you fish out of water!

I hope I have made myself clear....NO, don't bother to flip flop...don't even want you to go there....

That's a good one Neil. And so true. I guess I am the John Kerry of religious circles. I think I may even be more schizo than he is.

And hey ... I am serious here. I do flip flop on trying to figure out if I am conservative or liberal. That is why I started the thread "Conservative ?" to ask you folks if that is what I was. You said yes. Now some of you seem to be waffling on that decision ... just as I am.

Hey .... I am just totally confused. So don't mind me if I flip flop back and forth. Just trying to figure out who I am. By now you would have thought I'd have that figured out ... but no.

So Neil ... For now I will just have to be a moving target.

[David Koot]

hey Swiss cheese

In your dreams, ol' son, in your dreams.

[Woody]

Quote:

hey Swiss cheese

Who are you talking to Neil.

As far as I know ... I am the only one who has come out as Swiss.

[Taylor]

Probably so...I am Scotch, Irish, German, English, a tad of Native American and probably a host of other things ...making me a genuine heinz 57. What did you say about trying to figure out who you were Redwood? At least there is one thing you know for sure, you are Swiss. Me.....I have an identity crisis just looking at my "ethnic background." lol

[Woody]

Maybe that will explain my spiritual or religious identity search or crisis of mine. Am I a Swiss Conservative OR a Liberal Swed. I guess sometimes I seem like both.

[Bravus]

Hey Taylor, maybe not the music, but you might enjoy the lyrics of The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy's 'Sociogenetic Experiment'.

[Neil D]

Hey Taylor, maybe not the music, but you might enjoy the lyrics of The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy's 'Sociogenetic Experiment'.

Say WHAT????????

Ok, I dont understand...oh well....but with all this talk about SWISS cheese, I just hope we don't cut cheese....And with that stinky situation, gentlemen, I bid you 'a-doo' [sp]

[Woody]

Yeah ... I don't EVER want someone to have me pegged. That would not be truth ... for I don't even have myself pegged. I keep changing.

[Taylor]

I have been in a variety of countries in my life so far. In one, I couldn't understand why the pastor seemed to think it was ok for the male members to be working on Sabbath and so we talked about it. He told me "Well they have to support their families, and so God undertsands, that is why you mainly see women in church. Also many times students must take exams on the Sabbath, it is sad but that is the way it is." I expressed surprise at his apparently thinking such activities were ok. I mentioned stories about other countries where the same conditions prevailed and how the Lord had worked in behalf of those who were true to Him. He smiled indulgently at me but said something like, "Well you are just conservative" .

Then I went to another country and due to circumstances completely beyond my control I had to wear a casual outfit to a non-casual event and was told I was too liberal. I did my best to explain but I think the label stuck.

Inside myself, I have often chuckeled at such labels because it depends on who is defining "conservative" or "liberal" as to how someone is pegged.

I prefer to be pegged as someone who wants to follow the Lord all the way .

[Neil D]

Yeah ... ... for I don't even have myself pegged. I keep changing.

Some of us call that "growth"....

[Woody]

Quote:

I prefer to be pegged as someone who wants to follow the Lord all the way .

I like that. And the labels don't really work do they?