A struggle to understand and believe

[olger]

I would like to offer encouragement to those of us who are open to true teachings. Doctrine is a true teaching and doctrine is one of our best allies in a world of deceit and lies. Jesus said that truth would set us free, and freedom we need indeed (in 2008).

For every lie that the enemy throws at individuals, the Word of God has truth that will break the lies. "I am come that you might have life and that you might have it more abundantly."

Herein is the proper role of doctrine to set us free the lies of the world/enemy.

Many people who are opposed to "doctrine" find themselves in conflict with one or more of them, and thus try to brush them aside as "divisive."

Let us not forget that the Bible says that truth is VERY important. Let us also remember that we are to speak it in love. Failure to speak the truth in love can lead to spiritual abuses.

God is all in all,

olger

[Stan]

IMHO

The only purpose of Biblical Teachings are to reveal the character of God more fully.

[olger]

Exactly. The Great Controversy is predicated upon lies regarding the character of God.

olger

John 17:3

[Woody]

I would like to offer encouragement to those of us who are open to true teachings. Doctrine is a true teaching and doctrine is one of our best allies in a world of deceit and lies. Jesus said that truth would set us free, and freedom we need indeed (in 2008).

For every lie that the enemy throws at individuals, the Word of God has truth that will break the lies. "I am come that you might have life and that you might have it more abundantly."

Herein is the proper role of doctrine to set us free the lies of the world/enemy.

Many people who are opposed to "doctrine" find themselves in conflict with one or more of them, and thus try to brush them aside as "divisive."

Let us not forget that the Bible says that truth is VERY important. Let us also remember that we are to speak it in love. Failure to speak the truth in love can lead to spiritual abuses.

God is all in all,

olger

[olger]

Wasn't talking about Seth.

Since you are unemployed, I have a gift for you.

[Woody]

Quote:

And now I need to make sure that it isn't myself that stinketh.

I will be the first to admit that I have a stinky problem. It is a fishy smell. But I know of a fisherman who gives away free bars of soap.

[Woody]

Quote:

Wasn't talking about Seth.

Then I guess you were OFF topic. We are discussing Seth's issues here ... not anyone else's.

[olger]

Quote:

Wasn't talking about Seth.

Then I guess you were OFF topic. We are discussing Seth's issues here ... not anyone else's.

You guessed wrong again. I was referring to old 'I have a gripe with doctrine', redwoood.

This is great,

oG

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

And now I need to make sure that it isn't myself that stinketh.

I will be the first to admit that I have a stinky problem. It is a fishy smell. But I know of a fisherman who gives away free bars of soap.

And free Water!

"Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost."

Isaiah 55:1 NASB

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

There is nothing wrong with "pretending" as long as one is honest about it and not trying to deceive others.

That's one I'll have to think on awhile before accepting. " Who are we kidding" is a phrase that comes to mind and another question might be, "Who are we hurting in the process of pretending".

I'll admit the attendance thing until it becomes a habit sounds real good, but I found myself hurting, to my eyes, irreparably, many whom I loved dearly while believing someone else's advice about "God doesn't call you to a duty, just to call you away", practicing it till I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt God called me to "let" my light shine, not to "make" it shine.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16 KJV

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

All Doctrines of this church are true and inspiring. They also show us of God's love. But when one is looking at the failings of others .. you need to fully understand that God loves ALL of us. He loves those hypocrites and sinners who fill our churches. And I am one of those. If we love all and realize that we are just as sinful ... then we can better apply all the good and just doctrines that our church has understanding of.

I can agree with that, for the most part. But I also know that correct Biblical doctrine is Truth, and,

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32 KJV

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 KJV underlined mine LHC

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

Exactly. The Great Controversy is predicated upon lies regarding the character of God.

olger

John 17:3

I'm sure that sentence can be too easily misunderstood, Olger.

Could you clarify, please. Thank you!

Regards!

[Dr. Shane]

Again, the idea is that right actions lead to right feelings quicker than right feelings lead to right actions. If we wait until we feel like obeying, Satan will make sure we never feel like it. So we step out in faith and we obey even though we don't feel like it.

When we get into specifics is when we can start to look like a hypocrite. Let's say I step out in faith by going to church or paying my tithe even though I don't feel like it. Yet I still watch violent TV programs, smoke cigarettes or fail to treat me employees like Christ would have me. Some may look at me and cry "hypocrite". So what? I should stop going to church and paying tithe so I would no longer be a hypocrite? No! Of course not! My right actions (attending church and paying tithe) are more likely to lead to right feelings (wanting to obey God) quicker than if I do nothing and wait around for some day to have the desire to start attending church, paying tithe and completely surrender my life.

We are not all the same. Some people have that "come to Jesus" moment when they give all and completely turn from the old life and to the new. Others go at it step by step. Whne I first came to Christ I started by paying my tithe. That was the only commitment I made to God. I told Him I would try Him. My life was a disaster and I told God I would pay my tithe and see if things got better. I didn't commit to not watching R rated movies. I didn't pledge to stop eating pork. I didn't claim I would stop swearing or even that I would regularly attend church. It was through a very slow process, which still continues, that came to Christ.

[Woody]

Again, the idea is that right actions lead to right feelings quicker than right feelings lead to right actions. If we wait until we feel like obeying, Satan will make sure we never feel like it. So we step out in faith and we obey even though we don't feel like it.

When we get into specifics is when we can start to look like a hypocrite. Let's say I step out in faith by going to church or paying my tithe even though I don't feel like it. Yet I still watch violent TV programs, smoke cigarettes or fail to treat me employees like Christ would have me. Some may look at me and cry "hypocrite". So what? I should stop going to church and paying tithe so I would no longer be a hypocrite? No! Of course not! My right actions (attending church and paying tithe) are more likely to lead to right feelings (wanting to obey God) quicker than if I do nothing and wait around for some day to have the desire to start attending church, paying tithe and completely surrender my life.

We are not all the same. Some people have that "come to Jesus" moment when they give all and completely turn from the old life and to the new. Others go at it step by step. Whne I first came to Christ I started by paying my tithe. That was the only commitment I made to God. I told Him I would try Him. My life was a disaster and I told God I would pay my tithe and see if things got better. I didn't commit to not watching R rated movies. I didn't pledge to stop eating pork. I didn't claim I would stop swearing or even that I would regularly attend church. It was through a very slow process, which still continues, that came to Christ.

[LifeHiscost]

We are not all the same. Some people have that "come to Jesus" moment when they give all and completely turn from the old life and to the new. Others go at it step by step.

I agree with one caveat. Most, if not all, have that step by step experience that is going on, sometimes without anyone's knowledge save God alone.

"Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans 14:5 NASB

Regards!

[Woody]

While I can't take credit for the above quote ... I do agree with it.

[carolaa]

Originally Posted By: olger

Exactly. The Great Controversy is predicated upon lies regarding the character of God.

olger

John 17:3

I'm sure that sentence can be too easily misunderstood, Olger.

Could you clarify, please. Thank you!

Regards!

Yup. I had to read it 2-3 times before I figured it out.

[miahnie]

I think it is important for us to know that people attend church with various reasons. One cannot absolutely say that Christians attend church because they are Christians. Some attend because they love God, while others attend because of the fellowship. But we cannot also deny that some attend just for the heck of it and because their family/friends say so. I would also like to say that people attend church because they are sinners and they need the guidance of God to lead a righteous life. If we think this way, we can start to accept what could happen between church members and who they really are. If we understand this part of what is church going all about, then we will take this perspective as a step to strengthen ourselves and radiate it to others rather than a step towards the church's exit door.

[Gerr]

Quote:

And now I need to make sure that it isn't myself that stinketh.

I will be the first to admit that I have a stinky problem. It is a fishy smell. But I know of a fisherman who gives away free bars of soap.

And does His soap make you smell good or leave you stinking as before?

Gerry

[Gerr]

We are ALL hypocrites.

If that applies to all true believers as well, then we are all hopeless.

"Woe unto you....hypocrites..." x8 Mt 23:13-29

"The master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites." Mt 24:50,51 NKJ

Gerry

[Gerr]

I think it is important for us to know that people attend church with various reasons.

Mk 1:21-28 shows that even a devil-possessed person goes to church too.

Gerry

[Stan]

Mk 1:21-28 shows that even a devil-possessed person goes to church too.

Gerry

Gerry, you so often state the obvious that several of us miss, and package things in such a way that I will use statements like this as long as I have breath..

Thank you!!1

[D. Allan]

Quote:

And does His soap make you smell good or leave you stinking as before?

Does one shower per week keep you smelling good all week?

[D. Allan]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

We are ALL hypocrites.

If that applies to all true believers as well, then we are all hopeless.

"Woe unto you....hypocrites..." x8 Mt 23:13-29

"The master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites." Mt 24:50,51 NKJ

Gerry

We don't want to be hypocrites but we do have our times!

[color:blue]"Woe unto you....hypocrites...

for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in....

for ye devour widows'houses, and for a pretence make long prayer....

for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves...

for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and commin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgement, mercy, and faith....

for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess...."

do any of us ever omit " judgement, mercy or faith?

The second source quoted was Matt. 24:50,51. But lets look at the context.

v. 45 ... whom his lord hath made ruler over his household to give them meat in due season, blessed is that servant whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing...

But that evil servant...shall begin to smite his fellowservants... the lord of that servant shall come... and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites..."

What's the answer? Use the soap more often!!!!

[Woody]

Quote:

What's the answer? Use the soap more often!!!!

Good suggestion.

My problem is that I usually only take a "spit bath" instead of really getting down under the water. Maybe if I was baptized each and every day that would help my dreadful condition.