Have any of you read Joseph Campbell?

[cardw]

For those of you who have been following the dialog on Grace, Law, and Ellen White and/or Post Christianity and others might find some interest in the writings and views of Joseph Campbell.

Joseph Campbell has done very complete studies of many different religious mythologies. His insight and analysis of the deeper messages of these myths has not only provided historical insight into various religious practices, but he has presented some very insightful ways to move through all the different ways of viewing God and our purpose on this planet.

HIs most famous saying has been, "Follow your bliss." Here is a quote that describes a little more about what he means by this saying...

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Your bliss can guide you to that transcendent mystery, because bliss is the welling up of the energy of the transcendent wisdom within you. So when the bliss cuts off, you know that you've cut off the welling up; try to find it again. And that will be your Hermes guide, the dog that can follow the invisible trail for you. And that's the way it is. One works out one's own myth that way.

What I have observed is that people who are successful Christians do something very similar to this, only they give it Christian vocabulary. This is very close to the saying of Jesus where He states, "By their fruits you will know them." Only this would be by your fruits you will know yourself. In this case the fruit being bliss. The theology of these types of Christians tends to be adaptive to their experience, rather than finding their experience in understanding the theology.

Joseph Campbell makes another interesting observation about this process...

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When you have a mythic image, it has been validated by decades, centuries, or millennia of experience along that path. It's not easy to build a life for yourself with no model whatsoever. I don't know how it is right now, when so many possibilities have opened up for life. But in my experience it has always been the model that gives you the idea of the direction in which to go and the way in which to handle the problems and opportunities that come up.

In this way many mythical approaches can work to help one to navigate their way through life and find meaning and purpose based on a cultural history of experimentation and experience that becomes a myth or religion.

The essential difference that I have experienced is when the religion isn't accountable to experience. When one is required to believe things that go against their own experience, and then taught to ignore their own awareness, one will develop side effects such as toxic shame, confusion about identity, and other painful states of being.

In the Christian systems of belief the teachings about original sin and the condemnation of doubt often initiate these states of being. And the underlying assumption that God is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow implies that these beliefs can't change from their current form. And the Christian belief that Christianity is the only/best myth to derive meaning keep many people from exploring the reality of transformation versus stuck talking about it in very narrow terms.

[Bravus]

People keep recommending his stuff to me but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet. Must do, some time.

[Gerr]

"For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we had been eyewitnesses of His majesty." 2 Pet 1:15 NRSV.

Gerry

[LifeHiscost]

People keep recommending his stuff to me but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet. Must do, some time.

Judging from the ideas presented here from him I can only see ideas designed to subtly unfasten faith from the reality of the living Lord of the universe, Jesus by name.

"Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward." Hebrews 10:35 KJV

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12 KJV

Regards!

[there buster]

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I can only see ideas designed to subtly unfasten faith

Perhaps there are things you cannot see.

To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. [color:#000000]Titus 1:15

whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Phillippians 4:8

[John317]

Yes, I've read his writings. I've always been very interested in mythology, Homer, and in the classical dramas of Greece, etc. I still enjoy reading and studying them. While I believe those things may offer interesting insights into human experiences, values and beliefs, I realize that those stories and myths are not inspired by God and that they contain much that is actually opposed to the truth about God. (For instance, the gods of the ancient myths were constantly fighting and arguing among themselves. Zeus himself is portrayed as an immoral god, who falls in love with with a beautiful youth, Ganymede, and kidnaps him in order to serve as Zeus' cupbearer.)

Mythology has no character on a level with Jesus Christ as portrayed in the four gospels. It contains no prophecies such as the Bible has. It isn't supported by history and archeology as the Bible is; and it offers no salvation, as the Bible does, through a faith-based relationship with the only God who, out of His love for humanity, personally entered into human history, lived among us as a man, was crucified and rose to life again.

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

[there buster]

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I realize that those stories and myths are not . . . Mythology has no . . . It contains no . . . . It isn't . . . and it offers no . . . .

An examination of what it lacks. But Paul instructs us to focus on the good.

whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Phillippians 4:8

Cordially

[John317]

Quote:

I realize that those stories and myths are not . . . Mythology has no . . . It contains no . . . . It isn't . . . and it offers no . . . .

An examination of what it lacks. But Paul instructs us to focus on the good.

whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Phillippians 4:8

Cordially

As a Christian who believes firmly in the Bible as God's truth, I find it impossible to analyze the mythologies of the world without contrasting them with the Scriptures. Naturally, any comparison and contrast is going to refer to those things which the mythologies lack. While they contain some "truths," they are not "the Truth." That's the big difference between them and the Bible. Only in the Bible do I find "the Truth," which is both Jesus Christ and the message about Christ.

Interestingly, Paul shows evidence in his letters that he himself was well acquainted with the Greek poets.

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

[cardw]

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"For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we had been eyewitnesses of His majesty." 2 Pet 1:15 NRSV.

It is interesting that you quote this because it becomes very evident that the early Christians were being accused of borrowing from the religious myths and beliefs around them. I can provide some quotes if you want.

The truth is that Christianity is based on some very clever use of myths. Just look at the last supper and the celebration of communion and you will find a copy of the mystery religions of the day that ate the body of their god and drank his blood.

It is also clear that Pauline theology incorporates a Plato based ethical analysis into the Jewish understandings of God. This was a particular accusation that the early church had to face.

Because of this, the Catholic church began a systematic destruction of any writings or books that provided evidence of this. Fortunately we have quotes for the critics of these writings and we are finding other ancient sources that provide a clearer view of what these pagan religious practices involved and believed.

[Woody]

Richard ... your blog about Barnes and Myofascial Release is interesting. Would you put him in the same catagory as Campbell?

Being a therapist ... I've studied Barnes and as a patient ... I've been on the receiving end of his treatment ideas. Myofascial Release has helped me to some degree. But then there are lots of treatments that provide the same limited relief.

[cardw]

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Richard ... your blog about Barnes and Myofascial Release is interesting. Would you put him in the same catagory as Campbell?

I think there are some connections, but myofascial release isn't a belief system. There are people from all different religious backgrounds that practice myofascial release.

When I treat people who are Christian they will often have very strong connections with their religious belief as a result of treatment. This happens with other systems of belief as well. These transformations are best explained for me by Joseph Campbell and his observations of a universal connection with a particular experience that has many explanations.

Part of what myofascial release does is connect people with the vast sensory and intuitive body of knowledge that we all have. Most of us haven't been taught how to listen to this part of ourselves and when people connect with this I see changes that are beyond explanation. There is not only repairs of the body, but people begin to repair their relationships with themselves and others. We are beautifully connected and when these channels are brought together there is a natural healing process that is activated that is pretty wonderful.

[there buster]

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Naturally, any comparison and contrast is going to refer to those things which the mythologies lack.

Actually, comparison is more likely to find similarities-- and therefore to focus on positives.

Contrast is about differences.

[cardw]

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While I believe those things may offer interesting insights into human experiences, values and beliefs, I realize that those stories and myths are not inspired by God and that they contain much that is actually opposed to the truth about God. (For instance, the gods of the ancient myths were constantly fighting and arguing among themselves. Zeus himself is portrayed as an immoral god, who falls in love with with a beautiful youth, Ganymede, and kidnaps him in order to serve as Zeus' cupbearer.)

Christians often make the mistake of seeing other myths as having the same application as the Bible. These Greek gods weren't intended to be emulated but to explain why there is suffering in the world and how to find meaning. To the Greeks looking at the world they might see an almighty god that was immoral considering the unfairness and suffering in the world.

In contrast the OT authors considered God to be the source of evil and good and simply give up judging God and try to make sense of the world by blaming themselves. In one, where god is immoral, there is something wrong with creation itself, in the other, where God is good, there is something wrong with men.

The core issue is the assigning of blame.

In Eastern approaches there is no blame to be assigned. Christians adopted some of this by incorporating the idea of Grace.

The difference between the Bible and other myths is that the Bible took myths in existence and applied them to men instead of gods. The ancient Jews and Christian often believed the other myths to be true, but misapplied. By taking the myths and assigning them to men they could leave God as perfect and moral.

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Mythology has no character on a level with Jesus Christ as portrayed in the four gospels. It contains no prophecies such as the Bible has. It isn't supported by history and archeology as the Bible is; and it offers no salvation, as the Bible does, through a faith-based relationship with the only God who, out of His love for humanity, personally entered into human history, lived among us as a man, was crucified and rose to life again.

What you are stating here is the old debate about my god is better than your god. Religions have been borrowing from each other for thousands of years and today is no different.

If you were a Christian even 300 years ago slavery would be considered a institution of God and women would have to be in their place. Now Christians take credit for abolishing slavery and now God is against slavery instead of instituting it. The debate on women still rages but there will be a modification of the Christian god to account for the cultural changes that have changed our ethics in regard to the treatment of women.

The same thing happened around the teachings of Galileo. We take them for granted since we didn't go through some of these transitions, but what we are seeing is active myth making within Christianity. The Christianity of the 1st century would be unrecognizable today with all its almost 1100 sects.

The Christianity we have today was clearly established through violence and the destruction of evidence by the early Church. Today Christianity is being radically altered through advances in science, history and archeology. It is no longer true that archeology supports the historical accuracy of the Bible. There is absolutely no evidence of the Exodus when there should be tons of evidence. We do have more clues about the sources for these stories within Babylonian and Egyptian mythologies. There are parallels for almost every Old Testament story.

When you read the evidence it becomes clear that everybody is borrowing from everybody else and is making it up as they go. The great thing about Joseph Campbell is he identifies why people might find meaning in all of these myths and that they might be a way to encounter the transcendent nature of our beings so that we might experience meaning, joy, and purpose. And that by understanding how these myths came into being we can more intelligently encounter the deep mysteries of life. We can see myths for what they are rather than killing each other over who's god is greater.

[D. Allan]

Last evening I began reading Campbell's The Hero With A Thousand Faces. The introduction began with a quote of Freud's

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"The truths contained in religious doctrines are after all so distorted and systematically disguised that the mass of humanity cannot recognize them as truth."

Campbell says his purpose is to uncover some of these disguised truths by bringing together a lot of examples from religion and mythology and letting their symbolic language do the uncovering, just by giving us a multitude of examples.

I'm wondering did you find him to be successful in doing that - uncovering these disguised truths? Anyway I'm looking forward to reading the book and hope something important will infuse my soul.

Its not knowledge we're looking for, is it? Religion wants to systematize selected scriptures and make them into a body of knowledge. Soloman advised, Get wisdom, not Get knowledge. Perhaps these myths, religious and otherwise have disguised wisdom. How do we extract it? Perhaps I just haven't read far enough (page 12 so far ).

[cardw]

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Campbell says his purpose is to uncover some of these disguised truths by bringing together a lot of examples from religion and mythology and letting their symbolic language do the uncovering, just by giving us a multitude of examples.

I'm wondering did you find him to be successful in doing that - uncovering these disguised truths? Anyway I'm looking forward to reading the book and hope something important will infuse my soul.

You might find transcripts of his lectures and various talks helpful in this process since they tend to be more personal and less academic. They have been helpful to me in organizing the huge volumes of information he has presented on this topic.

You can find a lot of information at this website

Joseph Campbell Foundation

What I have found is that when I look at Jesus in a mythic presentation his messages, particularly his rather disturbing ones, are far more useful to the practice of spirituality. Jesus has some rather odd sayings such as requiring one to hate their family if they want to follow him or the instruction to cut off the offending part of your body if causes you to sin. He uses the hand as an example, but for men this might create atheists out of the lot of them.

I personally think he was being sarcastic or possible disturbing on purpose to create a different consciousness around the harmful world view that needs everything described as a law. Jesus certainly used myth as a teaching tool. This is present in his use of parables.

And when we look at Jesus as a particular type of hero his death on the cross certainly brings strong feelings in its presentation of the torture of not only an innocent man, but one who brought healing to everyone. The contemplation of this experience can certainly bring about a change in ones awareness.

This type of reaction happened in India when they presented a dramatic film on the life of Jesus. There were tears in most people's eyes when they saw Jesus crucified. The Christians in the group were thinking, "Wow, look at all these people being converted." In actuality the story of Jesus is very close to the story of Krishna and this demonstrated the natural empathy most people have for the unjust treatment of the innocent. I would guess that the Indian people understood the myth of Jesus far better than the Christians did.

Joseph Campbell is very complicated and thorough. If you like this sort of thing, I would say his books will be useful. If you aren't interested in that much detail, I would suggest that you read and then spend some time checking with what types of feelings you have come up. Maybe ask yourself what these feelings might be telling you and write it down. Be creative and pay attention to any images, feelings, and/or sensations that present themselves.

I believe that you will find these transcendent experiences within these spaces.

[LifeHiscost]

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I can only see ideas designed to subtly unfasten faith

Perhaps there are things you cannot see.

To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. [color:#000000]Titus 1:15

whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Phillippians 4:8

Very good principles of faith, especially the first one, although I would have to believe the second one doesn't describe the quotes from the author in question. I'll go back and read it again and report back to tell you if I feel I've been misled.

"Apply your heart to instruction, And your ears to words of knowledge." Proverbs 23:12 NKJV

Well I went back to read what was posted, a little more slowly and contemplatively. I'm only assuming these excerpts are considered to be the best he has to offer or at least some of the better.

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39 KJV

"And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth." John 17:3 NLT

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10 KJV

However it is true that God gives every man the right to choose their own path.

Regards!

[John317]

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Naturally, any comparison and contrast is going to refer to those things which the mythologies lack.

Actually, comparison is more likely to find similarities-- and therefore to focus on positives.

Contrast is about differences.

This is true.

[LifeHiscost]

When you read the evidence it becomes clear that everybody is borrowing from everybody else and is making it up as they go. The great thing about Joseph Campbell is he identifies why people might find meaning in all of these myths and that they might be a way to encounter the transcendent nature of our beings so that we might experience meaning, joy, and purpose. And that by understanding how these myths came into being we can more intelligently encounter the deep mysteries of life. We can see myths for what they are rather than killing each other over who's god is greater.

"....we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.

For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. " 1 Cor 8:4-6 NASB

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

Campbell says his purpose is to uncover some of these disguised truths by bringing together a lot of examples from religion and mythology and letting their symbolic language do the uncovering, just by giving us a multitude of examples.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 KJV

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

I believe that you will find these transcendent experiences within these spaces.

"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3 KJV

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

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I realize that those stories and myths are not . . . Mythology has no . . . It contains no . . . . It isn't . . . and it offers no . . . .

An examination of what it lacks. But Paul instructs us to focus on the good.

whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Phillippians 4:8

Cordially

If it can lead one to see the living Christ as the Way, the Truth

and the Life, it has merit. But when the Scriptures are described as another facet of mythology, it denies Truth, and makes the Almighty to be a liar.

"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

and every spirit that does not confess Jesus, is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."

1 John 4:2,3 NASB

Regards!

[John317]

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While I believe those things may offer interesting insights into human experiences, values and beliefs, I realize that those stories and myths are not inspired by God and that they contain much that is actually opposed to the truth about God. (For instance, the gods of the ancient myths were constantly fighting and arguing among themselves. Zeus himself is portrayed as an immoral god, who falls in love with with a beautiful youth, Ganymede, and kidnaps him in order to serve as Zeus' cupbearer.)

Christians often make the mistake of seeing other myths as having the same application as the Bible. These Greek gods weren't intended to be emulated but to explain why there is suffering in the world and how to find meaning. To the Greeks looking at the world they might see an almighty god that was immoral considering the unfairness and suffering in the world.

It's perfectly true, of course, that the myths don't have the same application as the Bible. For one thing, the ancient myths don't have anything really comparable to the ideas of the holy and of righteousness as we see them developed in the Bible. The gods of mythology are sinful; they're just more powerful, but not necessarily any more intelligent and often less moral than the average human. They're also very fickle. But even Zeus, the supreme god of the Greeks, was not "almighty" in the sense of being able to do whatever he willed to do.

The Greek gods were mere reflections of the ancient Greeks, and therefore their gods didn't have virtues that the people emulated, since the gods were just like themselves to start with. Karl Marx and others believed that the ancient Hebrews, unlike the Greeks and Romans, projected all of their ideals onto their God, Jehovah.

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In contrast the OT authors considered God to be the source of evil and good and simply give up judging God and try to make sense of the world by blaming themselves. In one, where god is immoral, there is something wrong with creation itself, in the other, where God is good, there is something wrong with men.

It's certainly true that the Bible views the world as having lots of problems, including suffering and death, but it says that these problems are a direct result of man's rebellion against God and His government. So there is something terribly wrong with both creation and with humans. That makes sense since in the beginning God put all of this earth under the dominion of humans, so when humans rebelled, the earth and all it contained was affected by our choices and the Fall.

The Bible invites people to "judge" God in the sense of examining and weighing the evidence and deciding whether God is worthy of our trust and of being worshipped and obeyed. It seems to me that the Bible appeals to our reasoning and asks us to decide whether we want to spend eternity with Him.

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The core issue is the assigning of blame.

How about true guilt? Humanity is 'truly guilty' before God. This universal sense of guilt comes up in works of art such as Kafka's, The Trial.

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In Eastern approaches there is no blame to be assigned.

That's not really true. They assign the blame for their misery and suffering to themselves for the way they lived their past lives. Those in the West refer to this as "Karma." It results from impersonal laws of the universe. The man of the East doesn't blame any one "god" but he does believe that he himself is at fault for the evil that happens to him. In some Eastern religions, people believe that they can affect these laws in a positive way through prayer or chanting. (The same concept appears among some of the North American Indian tribes, such as the Navaho.)

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Christians adopted some of this by incorporating the idea of Grace.

In an interesting book entitled, Truth Triumphant, by B. G. Wilkinson, the author gives documented evidence that very early, Christianity influenced various Chinese beliefs. The book also gives evidence that the ancient Jews as well were early influences on the Chinese. According to Wilkinson, there were Jews living and keeping the Sabbath in China as early as 400 BC. Confucius wrote about the Sabbath about 500 BC.

The idea of grace appears early in the Old Testament, almost on the first page, and did not originate with the Christians.

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The difference between the Bible and other myths is that the Bible took myths in existence and applied them to men instead of gods. The ancient Jews and Christian often believed the other myths to be true, but misapplied. By taking the myths and assigning them to men they could leave God as perfect and moral.

That's one way of looking at it, but it's merely a theory, which is impossible to prove.

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Mythology has no character on a level with Jesus Christ as portrayed in the four gospels. It contains no prophecies such as the Bible has. It isn't supported by history and archeology as the Bible is; and it offers no salvation, as the Bible does, through a faith-based relationship with the only God who, out of His love for humanity, personally entered into human history, lived among us as a man, was crucified and rose to life again.

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What you are stating here is the old debate about my god is better than your god.

I'm simply contrasting the Bible with the other world religions and with the ancient myths. Those are a few of the more obvious differences. It's something the God of the Old Testament frequently invites, even challenges, us to do. For instance, in the book of Isaiah, chapters 41 to 49.

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Religions have been borrowing from each other for thousands of years and today is no different.

A certain amount of "borrowing" or influencing is reasonable and to be expected. The fact that there has been some borrowing, for instance, on the part of the Hebrews, is not evidence that God does not exist or that God did not do what the Bible says He did.

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If you were a Christian even 300 years ago slavery would be considered a institution of God and women would have to be in their place. Now Christians take credit for abolishing slavery and now God is against slavery instead of instituting it.

Yes, some, even many, Christians had many wrong ideas. Many Christians have many wrong ideas today.

The fact is that history does show that Christians were very influential in abolishing slavery both in Europe and in North America. Of course there were many other people claiming to be Christians who supported slavery. There were even many otherwise "good" people who had slaves and believed in it. Some used the Bible to teach that slavery was God-ordained; others used the same Bible to teach that slavery was a great evil that had to be gotten rid of. So there was the war between the states, which, fortunately, the North won and the South lost. I had ancestors on both sides of that tragic war.

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The debate on women still rages but there will be a modification of the Christian god to account for the cultural changes that have changed our ethics in regard to the treatment of women.

Yes, no doubt of it.

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The same thing happened around the teachings of Galileo. We take them for granted since we didn't go through some of these transitions, but what we are seeing is active myth making within Christianity. The Christianity of the 1st century would be unrecognizable today with all its almost 1100 sects.

Just goes to show that things change. Organizations of all sorts undergo radical changes. People change. Ideas change. Religions change.

Yet the basic message of Christianity remains today what it was during the lifetime of Saint Paul. It's found in 1 Cor. 15: 1-12 and 1 Tim. 3: 16, and, later, in the Apostles Creed.

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The Christianity we have today was clearly established through violence and the destruction of evidence by the early Church.

Most of the destruction of Christian documents and artifacts was done by the Roman authorities under the various Roman Emperors.

Perhaps you could explain specifically what you are talking about here when you mention violence by which today's Christianity was "clearly established."

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Today Christianity is being radically altered through advances in science, history and archeology.

The essential teachings and practices remain the same for millions of Christians. For instance, the basic teachings of the SDA church haven't changed since its founding in 1864. There have been some changes, yes, but fundamentally the church's teachings are the same today that they were when Abraham Lincoln was alive. When I read our doctrines as printed in the old Review and Herald, I recognize them and believe in them.

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It is no longer true that archeology supports the historical accuracy of the Bible.

I've studied this stuff for years and know that the Bible is definitely supported by archeology. It's beyond any doubt. All one has to do is go to any really good university library and start reading in the textbooks on Biblical archeology. Does that mean there are no more questions and no more problems to solve? Of course not. But to say that archeology doesn't support the historical reliability and trustworthiness of the Bible is simply not true. Any time something is proven beyond question by archeology, it always confirms the testimony of the Bible.

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There is absolutely no evidence of the Exodus when there should be tons of evidence.

As it's been observed many times before by historians, Egyptians and their rulers almost never kept records of things that reflected negatively upon Egyptian rulers. I don't know of anyone who has studied Egypt who is surprised that there are no records of the Israelite exodus from Egypt.

Some years ago, I read or heard about evidence discovered in Egypt that agreed with what the Bible teaches about Egypt at the time of the Israelite sojourn there. There are books written on it which you could read if you are interested.

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We do have more clues about the sources for these stories within Babylonian and Egyptian mythologies. There are parallels for almost every Old Testament story.

Yes, I have read some of these stories, such as Gilgamesh. It's an interesting story, but anyone who think that's a more reliable story of the flood is wrong.

Could you give me a list of the other stories which parallel almost every Old Testament story? Or at least give half a dozen, perhaps of ones you believe are the original story on which the story in the OT is based?

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When you read the evidence it becomes clear that everybody is borrowing from everybody else and is making it up as they go. The great thing about Joseph Campbell is he identifies why people might find meaning in all of these myths and that they might be a way to encounter the transcendent nature of our beings so that we might experience meaning, joy, and purpose.

I used to be deep into those things years ago and became a Seventh-day Adventist in order to find "meaning, joy and purpose." I found them as a Christian, so I have no reason to go back to those things in order to find them.

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And that by understanding how these myths came into being we can more intelligently encounter the deep mysteries of life.

And after you die, having understood those myth and intelligently encountered the deep mysteries of life, what then? What difference will it all have made for you then?

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We can see myths for what they are rather than killing each other over who's god is greater.

I'm certainly not in favor of anyone's killing someone over who's god is greater. I'm of the conviction that there is nothing in the NT that would lead a sane, thinking man to believe he would ever be right to kill in the name of God. I can't think of a single verse that leans in that direction.

On the other hand, many, many millions of people in the 20th century were brutally killed by atheists, such as Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, etc. Have you ever read "the Black Book" about all the people killed by atheistic communists since 1914? They had myths, too, mainly about the superiority of the lower, working classes over the bourgeoisie.

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

[D. Allan]

Thanks for the link and advice on how to read Campbell. I'll read with a pencil in my hand.

I've also noticed that Jesus sometimes seems to be scarcastic in his sayings - sometimes he seems to be saying the opposite of what he really means.

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I believe that you will find these transcendent experiences within these spaces.

That happens when one gets serious about these things. :)

[cardw]

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"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3 KJV

Myth is exactly how children relate to the world. They don't quote verses to create meaning, they act out stories.

[Woody]

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I've also noticed that Jesus sometimes seems to be scarcastic in his sayings - sometimes he seems to be saying the opposite of what he really means.

Very True. But, to a serious student ... the message is clear. And I do like this approach of His. It gets you to see the picture more clearly when you dig in.