Rumors

[Woody]

Quote:

No Ellen was not of mixed race. As a child a jealous child threw a rock at Ellen and broke her nose and disfigured her face. Ever since then her face looked different than it would have normally. In todays medical technology she would have had reconstructive surgery. But back then they just made do with how the bones healed.

The quote below is what I found regarding this. But no mention of if she was from a mixed race it just talks about her "decaying" at a young age ....

Quote:

"Ellen Harmon had been a near-total invalid for the previous eight years because of a tragic rock-throwing incident. The accident had left her physically disfigured, her central nervous system shattered, and her formal education permanently terminated in the third (or, possibly, fourth) grade of elementary school. Hers was virtually a medical "basket case."

One physician observed that her right lung was "decayed," her left lung was "considerably diseased," and her heart action impaired. His diagnosis: "dropsical consumption" (a form of tuberculosis); his prognosis: at best her life expectancy was very short, at worst she was "liable to drop away at any time." " The Great Visions Of Ellen G. White p. 17

Roger W. Coon

Copyright © 1992, Review and Herald Publishing Association

[lazarus]

So the fact that her nose was broken by a stone proves that she was not mixed race!!

[Woody]

So the fact that her nose was broken by a stone proves that she was not mixed race!!

[lazarus]

It would be an interesting study to look at what the feelings of Ellen White were towards blacks. Here are a few ...

Quote:

"Opportunities are continually presenting themselves in the Southern States, and many wise, Christian colored men will be called to the work. But for several reasons white men must be chosen as leaders." 9T p. 202.

"The work of proclaiming the truth for this time is not to be hindered by an effort to adjust the position of the Negro race." 9T p. 214.

"The Colored People should not urge that they be placed on an equality with White People." 9T p. 214.

"No one is capable of clearly defining the proper position of the colored people." 9T p. 213.

The statements above prove that God uses all kind of people to do his work. She was not perfect. She adopted some of the prevailing atitude of her time. Like all who have been blessed with the prophetic gift she was imperfect.

[Woody]

Quote:

"All in all, I have concluded there is no, or even a hint of, evidence among the material I sought independently or that was provided me from either the Ellen G. White Estate records or Dr. Dudley’s research that there is a connection between the Gould family ancestral to Ellen Gould (Harmon) White and those of the name Gould who settled in Gouldtown, New Jersey, from the West Indies."Roger D. Joslyn, CG, FASG, Fellow of the American Society of Genealogists and the Utah Genealogical Association.

Since the conclusion of the expert in the field was that there is absolutely no evidence that would point to Ellen White having any black heritage .... I am confused as to why you would even post the flawed information from Dudley.

Quote:

Mr. Joslyn rendered his report to the White Estate in May 2002. His conclusions parallel those of the previous genealogist hired twenty years earlier. Consequently, the White Estate’s current position regarding Ellen White’s ancestry is based on two professional genealogical studies, both of which demonstrated that Ellen White was of Anglo-Saxon origin. Since no documented evidence to the contrary has been found, the White Estate accepts the conclusion of the two genealogists that Ellen White’s ancestors came directly from England to New England in 1635

I don't see any conspiracy here from the White Estate against Blacks. The evidence that she had NO Black Heritage seems clear from very qualified experts.

[lazarus]

By posting it I'm not saying that I agree with it. I posted it for info. I have not spent much time thinking/debating the issue but other people obviously have!

[Woody]

By posting it I'm not saying that I agree with it. I posted it for info. I have not spent much time thinking/debating the issue but other people obviously have!

[John317]

Very good post, Lazarus. I hadn't seen that information before.

It wouldn't matter to me if she did turn out to have been of mixed race. I want to know the truth about this, but I don't like to see some aspects of the discussion about it because it can be interpreted either way as an attempt to bring race into the issue, and I don't think it belongs there or is relevant. If there are black SDAs who would feel hurt or be spiritually damaged in some way to be told that Ellen White is not one of them, I would favor letting them believe what they want.

Thanks for that link you provided. It gives the background and the context of the sentences that you quoted from it.

I noticed the conclusion, as I see Redwood did also:

"All in all, I have concluded there is no, or even a hint of, evidence among the material I sought independently or that was provided me from either the Ellen G. White Estate records or Dr. Dudley’s research that there is a connection between the Gould family ancestral to Ellen Gould (Harmon) White and those of the name Gould who settled in Gouldtown, New Jersey, from the West Indies.

Dr. Dudley is correct on one point, however, and that is it makes no difference what Ellen’s racial heritage was with respect to the person she was. For historical accuracy, however, it cannot be claimed she had any known ancestry that could be classified as non-white, at least not through her Gould line ancestry based on the research conducted for this report."

[Woody]

Quote:

For historical accuracy, however, it cannot be claimed she had any known ancestry that could be classified as non-white, at least not through her Gould line ancestry based on the research conducted for this report."

This is the bottom line. But, I agree with you John317 that if someone prefers to believe in a fantasy ... that she had some black ancestry .... and that somehow helps the individual .... then by all means go for it. But those who are concerned with reality and truth .... it is clear. For what it is worth.

My only concern in all this was the accusation that some might feel there is a cover up by the church as articulated by Stan. If one believes that Ellen was black and by having that belief .... they somehow believe that the church lead a conspiracy to hide the fact ... then that belief would be dangerous in my mind. This is why I wanted to find the truth and clear up any conspiracy theories against our church.

[John317]

I agree with you. I'm not saying I'm not interested in the facts of the case, of course, and I also wouldn't want people thinking that the church has been trying to suppress information about Ellen White, either.

[John317]

Laz, I'd be interested in hearing what you think personally about this. As a pastor, do you hear anything from SDAs in your church or conference about this?

Although I have noticed that one picture that makes her look as if she could be "mulatto," I have not noticed this in other pictures. I honestly hadn't heard anything at all about this question until this thread, so it's something totally new to me. I've never heard any whites or others even bring it up before. I am just wondering if this is something of concern to a significant number of SDAs, as far as your experience would suggest.

[Kountzer]

The few times I've seen this topic come up it was usually on sda oriented msg boards. I may of attended a pot luck dinner, or something, and a casual discussion of this would come up. Never heard anyone preach on it. These days EGW and her writings are viewed with a lot of skepticism. Not by everyone, but by quite a few. I don't agree with that viewpoint however.

DB

[Guest truthseeker007]

Lol ellen white teached that the dark races were the result of amalgamation. That explains some of her weird statements...

[Stan]

Lol ellen white teached that the dark races were the result of amalgamation. That explains some of her weird statements...

No she did not.

[John317]

Lol ellen white teached that the dark races were the result of amalgamation. That explains some of her weird statements...

That is just one way her statement has been interpreted but there are other ways of viewing that particular statement. It is just like in the Bible, there are all kinds of ways that some people have viewed the Bible that could make it appear it's pretty ignorant and a bundle of contradictions. As far as the Ellen White quote on that topic, have you ever read the explanations of it that were written by Nichols? You can access it online if you like.

[Stan]

There are a couple of threads on this one is here

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8991

and

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/158736/1

[John317]

Well, I've lost a little of my hearing due to being around heavy artillery in the military, etc., so maybe I missed some of those discussions about Ellen White's racial make-up.

A lot of the skepticism you speak is a reaction to the wrong way many in the church tried to defend her by making it sound as if every word she wrote was directly inspired by God. Those people thought they were doing her a favor but in actuality they were doing her a great harm.

I would just suggest that people concentrate on the Bible, but also read all of Ellen White's books for themselves.

People shouldn't take someone else's opinion about what an apple tastes like, should they? Not if they really want to know what an apple tastes like anyway.

[Guest truthseeker007]

“Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.” Spiritual Gifts Volume Three pg.75

“But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere. Spirit of Prophecy Volume One, pg.69

[Guest truthseeker007]

Come on, just because ellen said some stupid things, doesn t mean she is a false prophet. She made a lot of stupid statements, however i think we should look at the main things she stated about sabbath etc.

[John317]

I understand your point but we have to understand that there are other reasonable ways of seeing her writings on this topic.

For instance, consider the following information:

"Both a careful reading of Ellen White's statement in Spiritual Gifts, vol. 3, p. 75, as well as the whole tenor of her life and teachings belies the notion that she viewed any race as sub-human. She wrote, "No distinction on account of nationality, race, or caste, is recognized by God. He is the Maker of all mankind. All men are of one family by creation, and all are one through redemption."--Christ's Object Lessons, p. 386.

Resources:

Francis D. Nichol, Ellen G. White and Her Critics, 1951, pp. 306-322.

Herbert E. Douglass, Messenger of the Lord, 1998, pp. 491-492.

Ellen G. White, "The Brotherhood of Mankind," Selected Messages, bk. 2, pp. 485-48

Check out what has been said in the above references and then if you or anyone else likes we could open up the topic for discussion on a different thread.

[Stan]

Come on, just because ellen said some stupid things, doesn t mean she is a false prophet. She made a lot of stupid statements, however i think we should look at the main things she stated about sabbath etc.

My point is, how do you know she was not talking about white folks?

[Stan]

And... what did she mean by amalgamation?

[Guest truthseeker007]

yeah you are right, there are multiple ways to interpret her strange statements. I think amalgamation in this sense means 'to unnaturally mix different species'. This is impossible because the genotype of one species cannot interbreed with another species...

[aldona]

yeah you are right, there are multiple ways to interpret her strange statements. I think amalgamation in this sense means 'to unnaturally mix different species'. This is impossible because the genotype of one species cannot interbreed with another species...

Can anyone say "Biotechnology" of "Genetic modification"?

If our generation is capable of this kind of technology, do you think that the people before the Flood, who had superior intelligence and a longer life span, would not have been able to work it out?

I used to think Mrs White's statements on "amalgamation" were a lot of rubbish until I went to medical school and studied molecular biology and genetics in more depth. It is only "rubbish" if you approach it from the 19th century context of mating animals directly or cross-pollinating plants.

Another reason why I am a bit wary of genetic modification - tinkering with God's created order in this way, against the direct command that every species shall reproduce "according to its kind", seems to me like playing with fire.

aldona

[Amelia]

British scientists make human-cow embryos

Thu Apr 3, 2008

By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - British researchers say they have created embryos using human cells and the egg cells of cows, but said such experiments would not lead to hybrid human-animal babies, or even to direct medical therapies.

Dr. Lyle Armstrong of Newcastle University presented preliminary data on his work to Israel's parliament last week, Newcastle University said in a statement released on Tuesday.

They said they had hollowed out the egg cells of cattle and inserted human DNA to create a growing embryo. The hope would be to take it apart to get embryonic stem cells.

Details of the work were not available because the researchers have not yet published their study in a scientific journal -- the usual route for reporting such experiments.

Other experts agreed such work would only be an interim step aimed at understanding the biology of embryonic stem cells -- the body's ultimate master cells, which can give rise to all of the other cells and tissues.

"They put human DNA into a cow egg and got the usual early-stage embryos you'd expect," said Dr. Robert Lanza of Massachusetts-based Advanced Cell Technology, whose company tried, but failed, to create stem cells in a similar way in the late 1990s.

"It's too early to say whether this is different or new," agreed Susannah Baruch of The Genetics and Public Policy Center in Washington.

John Burn, head of the Institute of Human Genetics at Newcastle University, said the idea is to save "precious human eggs" in making stem cells using cloning technology.

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-32815820080402