Adventist pastor converts to Catholicism...?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Thanks for that questionnaire, Tom.

Hey, Aldona, I'm more of a Quaker (100%) than an SDA (88%)!!!

Gerry

Now we see the truth. My views are more Adventist than Gerry's. Not a surprise to me ... but I am sure it is to Gerry.

Sorry Red, but your view on salvation is out of step with most SDAs.

Gerry

[Woody]

Quote:

Sorry Red, but your view on salvation is out of step with most SDAs.

I would agree that YOUR view or portrayal of my view would be.

But, actually MY view of MY view is not out of step with most SDAs.

[John317]

SDA 100%

Conservative Protestant 96%

Eastern Orthodox 91%

Roman Catholic 91 %

Orthodox Quaker 86%

Islam 50%%

[Tom Wetmore]

Welcome ! This Quaker meeting is called to order...

So what other good Adventists here are willing to fess up to how much of their beliefs agree with Catholicism? I would guess with confidence that almost everyone here likely comes out well above 50%, which suggests that the majority of what you believe is "in common" with Catholics.

This most recent time of taking the quiz shows me to be 100% consistent with Quaker beliefs, 93% with Seventh-day Adventists, 80% with Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant, 70% with Eastern Orthodox, 70% with Roman Catholic, 66% with mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants, 54% with Hinduism, and 53% with Liberal Quakers.

And consistent with my earlier suggestion, I see that John317, conservatively Adventist though he may seem to be, is almost as Catholic as he is Adventist and is more Catholic than I am as a raging liberal. (...or so some would like to think) That trend is consistent with previous comparisons I have done with how conservative and liberal Adventists stack up against Catholic beliefs...

Tom

[Amelia]

I sure don't know what I'm doing wrong but I wasn't happy with the outcome of this test. So I took it again with only a slight variation on the answers. Again I wasn't happy. Hummmm Maybe I am not reading the questions with correct understanding.

[John317]

They get some of those results, such as SDAs being rather similar to Catholics, because the questions don't touch on very many of the issues that distinguish the two denominations.

[Jeannieb43]

Why does everyone here apparently come out as 100% Orthodox Quaker??!!

My results were 100% Orthodox Quaker,

93% SDA

77% Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant

71% Eastern Orthodox

71% Roman Catholic

... but only 51% "Liberal Quakers"

... and even less (45%) Mormon

Interesting.

[Stan]

LOL Aldona, now look what you started Quaker membership is going to grow like crazy now :)

[Amelia]

Well I couldn't even get SDA OR Quaker on my list. I'm so ashamed.

[Woody]

What are we to think ???!!!

[John317]

OK, so what REALLY are you anyway?

[Amelia]

OK, so what REALLY are you anyway?

It said I was 100% Mormon and 99% JW

[John317]

Have you ever studied their beliefs or did this come as a complete surprise?

Actually those groups do have many things in common with SDAs. I've studied with JWs for a long time and found that I could agree with about 75% of the things they believe. But the 25% are things I simply never could believe.

[Amelia]

I have never studied them at all. And yes, this is a shocker!!!

[John317]

Now you probably wanna know why. Chances are you answered two or more of those questions the way members of those groups typically answer, so it doesn't mean that you believe everything those groups believe.

For instance, Mormons believe that God the Father has a body, whereas most other Christians do not. Another thing is that JWs are very strict in their belief that Christians should have nothing to do with politics or the state or with serving in the military. So there are a number of possible ways of explaining how you got those results.

[Naomi]

{Well I couldn't even get SDA OR Quaker on my list. I'm so ashamed.}

Not to worry Amelia ... I got a SDA but it was only 71% for me. Reform Judaism was higher at 79%, {did have a Quaker} at 80%, Baha'i Faith, Buddhism, & Islam all came in at 74%...and at the top of the list was Sikhism, at 92% followed by Roman Catholic at 90%. With a combination like that I don't know what I would "convert to." Guess I'll remain Adventist.

[aldona]

LOL Aldona, now look what you started Quaker membership is going to grow like crazy now

Hahaha ROFLOL

On one of the online Quaker forums they joke about the BeliefNet quiz being "a recruiting drive." And yes, there are a lot of members there that first found out about the Quaker faith from that quiz!

But seriously though, it just goes to show how much SDA and Quakers have in common.

- Temperance - Mrs White would have worked side by side with Quakers, as well as many other flavors of Christians, in the temperance reform movement. John Cadbury, the founder of the Cadbury chocolate empire, was a Quaker, and originally tried to popularize chocolate as a drink for the working class people to take the place of alcohol.

- Abolition of slavery and other social reforms - once again, the early SDA movement was on the same side. (even though not as politically active)

- Health - they were pioneers in promoting the idea of breakfast cereals (Quaker Oats, anyone?)

- Many early SDA lifestyle teachings such as simplicity, lack of jewelry, avoidance of dancing, gambling and other "frivolous" pursuits, were also shared with the Quakers.

- The idea of "the priesthood of all believers" - that God can speak directly to every human, without a priest or prophet as an intercessor.

I could go on...

But I think you get the idea.

I should add, too, that the above (as well as my views) are more closely aligned with the Orthodox Quakers.

Liberal Quakers are different again, and are not to everyone's taste - many Orthodox Quakers feel that the Liberals have diluted their Christian message and heritage to the point that they have become almost like the Unitarians (anything goes, everybody will be saved, and you don't even have to believe in God - yes, there are even atheist Quakers.)

I'm sure if Quaker membership received a boost they would be very happy - there are an estimated 300,000 Quakers worldwide. (About 300 in Australia.) Truly a "little flock."

aldona

[Amelia]

Wanna start the first Seventh Day Quakers?

[aldona]

I would love to. We can meet at my place.

aldona

[Kevin H]

An interesting thing about Seventh-day Adventism is on the one hand it is a denomination, but on the other hand it is a movement that has ideas that can cross denominational lines. Our mainline Adventists tend to be Baptist, The evangelicals tend to be more Lutheran, I tend to be more United Methodist in outlook. In the 1800s and early 1900s there was even a Jewish version of Seventh-day Adventism in Europe, and there are still Jews and Muslims who have learned about Adventism that they apply to their lives as Jews and Muslims. One of the beauties of Adventism is that it can appeal to such a large mindset.

[John317]

That's really well said, Kevin. You're right about it's being a movement. That is what I consider it to be. When it becomes just another denomination, it won't be doing what God raised our church up to do. I hope that time never comes for the larger part of the church.

[Planey]

My top four, without comment:

• 1. Secular Humanism (100%)

  2. Nontheist (90%)

  3. Unitarian Universalism (89%)

  4. Liberal Quakers (72%)

Graeme

[Neil D]

4. Liberal Quakers (72%)

See, I knew you'd get into heaven, somehow!

:smilewink:

[FoundByLove]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Aldona, I am terribly sorry that you don't have that sense of belonging. How does one feel at home in it? I have no idea except that after studying the Scriptures, there is not another church that I know of where I would fit in and feel comfortable in. BTW, I was a former Catholic.

Gerry

That's the weird thing. I have grown up in an Adventist family and for a long time did not know any other way of believing and practicing. I studied the Scriptures and E.G.White, and learned and understood all of our doctrines (and still do!) I can list all of the 27 (28 now?) fundamentals, and look up the Bible passages that support them, and assent with my intellect that I agree with these teachings and that they make sense.

I love my SDA church family - they are beautiful people, and I am fortunate to belong to a church which is full of warm and loving and friendly folks who love God and love their neighbor.

But even among them, as well as among the church I grew up in, and the SDA schools I attended, I have always felt "different." I know I am seen as "a bit different" - "a bit of a radical" - "thinks outside the box".

Going to SDA grade school, I was picked on by other kids because I was so quiet and introspective, serious, more interested in sitting quietly contemplating by myself than playing with other kids.

Going to SDA high school, I was teased by other kids for being a "greenie" or a "hippie" - always getting passionate about some cause, like human rights, religious liberty, the environment, peace, non-violence, animal welfare, etc. It was just too different from the Adventist way of being an "activist" - spreading the gospel, going on a "fly & build", handing out tracts, running an evangelism seminar - all worthy causes that I did not feel in the least called to do, and feeling guilty about it and wondering if I was really a good Christian.

When I was a medical student, and going through my "crusading vegan activist" stage, I remember telling a fellow SDA vegan health reformer about how much better it would be for the environment if everybody was herbivorous, how much more food could be grown to feed the hungry, and how much less cruelty and suffering there would be in the animal kingdom. My fellow vegan argued heatedly with me, discredited my statistics as a lot of rubbish, and generally made me feel like some kind of fringe weirdo for not justifying my vegan diet solely on what it does for MY body and MY health and MY well-being. This messed with my mind so badly, and created such a "cognitive dissonance", that I gradually became disillusioned and lost interest in the whole vegetarian thing and to this day I continue to eat clean meats and fish.

(Interestingly, at Quaker meeting I find myself surrounded by people who are vegetarian for exactly the same reasons as I was back then, and I can feel some of my old idealism gradually flickering back into life. It is ironic that I am going to find it easier, and more mentally and spiritually rewarding, being vegetarian as a Quaker than as an Adventist).

I didn't set out to look for the Quakers. I didn't even know who they were, except I had a vague idea that they were people who dressed plain and didn't swear oaths, and who would appear at peace protests with a sign that said "Love your enemies." I thought they were like the Amish. It all started when I did that BeliefNet quiz for fun (the one that gets you to answer a bunch of questions and tells you what religion you match most closely.)

My answer was: Quaker 100%, Seventh-Day Adventist 99%. I thought it was all very funny, and had a good laugh. Then I started to read more and find out more, and I very quickly stopped laughing.

I don't know if you have every watched the movie "Happy Feet", but if you have seen the part where Mumble the penguin finally finds a group of penguins that can dance like he does after a lifetime of not fitting in because he can't sing, that is the only way I know how to describe it.

When I attended my first ever Quaker meeting, I didn't have to be taught how to "centre myself" to focus on God and wait upon Him in silent prayer. It just happened automatically. It is what my state of mind naturally wants to do when I am left by myself to pray and contemplate. And I have very, very rarely managed to achieve anything resembling that state of mind in an Adventist religious service! - despite a lifetime of trying and wondering if I was lost because I would awkwardly decline and whisper "I'm more comfortable praying silently" when pressured to offer a prayer out loud to the congregation.

Even the quaint old Quaker phrases of speech like "that of God in every man" (what we would describe as the God-shaped void in every person's innermost self, that part of us which is capable of being influenced by the Holy Spirit), "I have a concern" (instead of "I have a burden" or "it has been laid on my heart..."), "I will hold you up in the Light" (when offering to pray for another person), fit naturally with the way I think and speak, much more so than the distinctive Adventist terminology I grew up with.

What makes it really weird is, as I mentioned above, that I really do still consider myself an Adventist. I agree with all of the fundamental beliefs (OK, maybe a few minor points of dissent on unimportant matters here and there, but certainly not enough to lose sleep or church membership over.) I continue to keep the Sabbath, and I believe Jesus is coming again. My diet is becoming more Adventist than when I was solely an Adventist. But these are just the facts that I believe to be true, and the Quaker way is who I am in my innermost being.

Maybe BeliefNet was right, and I really am 100% Quaker and 99% SDA. Maybe pigeon-holes are for pigeons, and none of us really fits in one standard-sized religious box. My spiritual walk is deeper and richer than ever, and I am closer to God than I have ever been, with a foot in each camp, and maybe this is how I am meant to live out how I "worship God in Spirit and in Truth."

In the early days of my Quaker quest I commented to my husband that if you could combine Adventist doctrine with Quaker practice, I think you would come as close as is possible on this imperfect planet to a perfect religion.

So that is the long-winded answer as to how I got where I am today spiritually.

aldona

(surprised by how much time this has taken, have to go to work!!)

Aldona!!!

It's like as I read what you wrote here... I had to check and make sure that you wrote it and not ME!!! Seriously. You completely read my mind, my heart... Um, am I really a Quaker? I did, as a joke, take the BeliefNet quiz once... And came up as a Quaker first, and Adventist second, and so forth...

*Snickers*

Maybe some of us are really Quakers at heart???

All I know is that you are NOT alone in what you went through in grade school and high school. I'm so serious, I went through the -exact- same things, only with me, I didn't know why it was. I didn't know that it was because I wasn't fitting in with everyone else's idea of the perfect little Adventist girl. I thought there was something wrong with -me- personally, or that there must have been anyway, since no one liked me or -wanted- to play with me (since I didn't have "good social skills" enough to know how to play -their- games and so forth...).

*Hugs Aldona*

Thank you for posting this. I know now that I'm not alone in my personal experiences :)

[Woody]

Quote:

*Hugs Aldona*

Thank you for posting this. I know now that I'm not alone in my personal experiences

I don't believe that Aldona has a clue as to how many people relate with the things she says. There are many people that want to reach through the internet and give her a big hug.