Expelled! You got to go see it!!!

[allenroyboy]

excellent!!

[Lil Star]

see what?

Hmmm, maybe we can continue this thread by many many pages of useless drivel. I think the space here would do good by this. Quite interesting if you ask me.

[Amelia]

Expelled is a currant movie release

Ben Stein, in the new film EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed

His heroic and, at times, shocking journey confronting the world’s top scientists, educators and philosophers, regarding the persecution of the many by an elite few.

Coming to a theater near you on April 18, 2008

Ben travels the world on his quest, and learns an awe-inspiring truth…that bewilders him, then angers him…and then spurs him to action!

Ben realizes that he has been “Expelled,” and that educators and scientists are being ridiculed, denied tenure and even fired – for the “crime” of merely believing that there might be evidence of “design” in nature, and that perhaps life is not just the result of accidental, random chance.

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/home.php

[Dr. Shane]

I plan to go to the matinée tomorrow. This is opening weekend. I wasn't going to go on the Sabbath. I could have went this evening but I spent the day in Mexico and we got back late.

[Dr. Shane]

BTW: we have a thread on this topic in the Origins Forum already. Those that have seen the film are encouraged to make comments there.

[Amelia]

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...ce_Allow#UNREAD

[fccool]

I surely did not expect this from Ben Stein out of all people.

[Dr. Shane]

I will make my comments in the Origins forum.

[Gail]

Allen Roy!! I saw you yesterday in a new DVD- Full Disclosure

[Gail]

I have been inundated with all kinds of ads for this for weeks, via e-mail. I'm curious!

[Stan]

as did I, I reported them as spam.

[Amelia]

Wow, I haven't

[Gail]

There was a couple of places that I reported as spam, but mostly I just deleted them

[olger]

Should be good. Ben would make a decent president.

[Bravus]

http://www.expelledexposed.com/

For all our Fox News fans - a little coverage from the other side of the issue, just to keep it fair and balanced

[Dr. Shane]

The "scientific" community has a lot to lose. I think we will see them doing all they can to contain this movie. As I read through he "exposing" on the site that Bravus linked to it comes off as a lot of "but this" and "but that". That site comes off like the boy that caught with his hands in the cookie jar and is trying to "explain".

I don't think I need the move "Expelled" I don't think we need links to "the other side" since all of academia is the other side. I wonder of the Science Channel of Discover will give this movie air time.

[Dr. Shane]

The "scientific" community has a lot to lose. I think we will see them doing all they can to contain this movie. As I read through he "exposing" on the site that Bravus linked to it comes off as a lot of "but this" and "but that". That site comes off like the boy that caught with his hands in the cookie jar and is trying to "explain".

I don't think I need the move "Expelled" I don't think we need links to "the other side" since all of academia is the other side. I wonder of the Science Channel of Discover will give this movie air time.

[Bravus]

As always in this kind of situation, it's about honesty. If Intelligent Design advocates believe they have strong arguments, they should bring them as honestly as they can. The makers of this documentary obtained interviews under false pretences, and many of the claims made are simply false. Isn't it better to support an argument (especially one meant to vindicate aspects of faith) with truth than falsehood?

[Dr. Shane]

Again, I don't see it. I have read through the website "Expelled Exposed" and it just sounds like a bunch of whining naturalists crying "It's not fair" and "It's not right". I doubt many that watch the movie will take as much time as I did to read through their excuses trying to discount the movie.

Obtaining interviews under false pretenses is how controversial documentaries are made. Micheal Moore has become rich off from them. That is such a weak criticism it shows how desperate the critics of this film are. It is like they are throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks.

[Planey]

I have read through the website "Expelled Exposed" and it just sounds like a bunch of whining naturalists crying "It's not fair" and "It's not right".

I must have gone to a different website than you, Shane. I thought most of their objections were clearly and unemotionally expressed and were well researched and more than adequately backed up with cites.

I am also a recent creation advocate, like yourself, but I cannot agree with you about the website in discussion.

Graeme

[Dr. Shane]

Here is some whining:

"In practically every scene, Expelled insults the science of evolution and the scientists who study it"

"The notion that scientists have formed an atheistic cabal to keep intelligent design from its day in the sun is ludicrous."

"For a movie obsessed with evolution, it is odd that Expelled never bothers to define evolution properly."

"The thought that anyone could herd [scientists] together to conspire against anything – even intelligent design – is laughable."

"Intelligent design has not produced any research to suppress."

This next one is a good one.

"The fundamental problem with intelligent design as science is that intelligent design claims cannot be tested."

As if evolution can be.

"The movie sets up an unnecessary dichotomy between science and religion by pretending that a selected group of atheist scientists represent all scientists."

The next statement isn't even true regarding what the movie says.

"Evolution leads to a devaluation of human worth."

If one adds the word "can" or "has with some people" after the word evolution, that is what the movie was saying.

"Expelled’s inflammatory implication that Darwin and the science of evolution 'led to' eugenics, Nazis, and Stalinism is deeply offensive and detrimental to public discussion and understanding of science, religion, and history."

I guess the movie isn't politically correct enough for them.

Dawkins is quoted, "I feel betrayed and very angry. This has only happened to me once before, in a very long career of doing hundreds of interviews."

"the team at Motive Marketing is striving to inflate the number of tickets sold.."

"the makers of Expelled... have been snubbing those who would be critical of the film."

Others may not see what I see but I see some serious whining going on that site.

[Bravus]

Quote:

The next statement isn't even true regarding what the movie says.

"Evolution leads to a devaluation of human worth."

If one adds the word "can" or "has with some people" after the word evolution, that is what the movie was saying.

So how would you characterise this quote from the movie:

"First of all, if you take seriously that evolution has to do with the transition of life forms, and that life and death are just natural processes, then one gets to be liberal about abortion, euthanasia, all of those kinds of ideas, it seems to me, follow very naturally from a Darwinian perspective. The de-privileging of human beings, basically" (Steve Fuller, Expelled)

[Dr. Shane]

In the movie they specifically say that not all who believe in Darwinism become atheist or devalue human life. That is clearly stated. So the other statements need to be understood in that context. It is no different than criticizing religion. (And this movie is not religious by any stretch of the imagination) Religion can lead to persecution and all kinds of crimes against humanity. That doesn't mean all religious people are going to kill or persecute other Christians but many that do have found their motive in so doing a result of their religious beliefs. The same is true of natural evolution. There are many that have committed crimes against humanity that do so because of their beliefs based in evolutionary science.

What they are doing is putting both ideologies on the same table. When the two are viewed as equal and competing ideologies then we are only one step away from having them both taught in the classroom.

At least that is how it seemed to me.

[Gail]

I was just informed that one of the people interviewed in the movie, a man whose name is Guierrmo but the last name escapes me, recommends a DVD called "Privileged Planet"

I have never seen that film but it sells really well for us.

[Bravus]

But Shane, they do treat 'science' as this massive, atheistic monolith that is out to crush ID: that's the whole premise of the film. They fail to have a nuanced approach to the complexity of science and scientists, and to realise that a huge proportion of scientists - including evolutionary biologists and those opposed to ID - have a strong religious faith. To be fair, they could perhaps have said 'some scientists who oppose ID have opposed some scientists who support it' - but that's not much of a controversial story.

The other part of the 'Exposed' web site: did you see that virtually none of the people the movie claims were 'expelled!' really were?