1st Amendment and Gay Marriage

[Woody]

Quote:

I am gay and a christian- both sides I see.

Since we are confessing ....

I am a sinner and a christian - both sides I see.

[Parade Orange]

amen REDWOOD

exactly.

I dont think many put those two together cause what will the neighbors think?

[Servant]

"I am a sinner and a christian" - me too!

Parade Orange expresses exasperation at the 'Christian' attitudes witnessed and experienced in church. And while I feel his pain (pride; spiritual or other is especially distasteful), we can't change others or 'make' them respond or act appropriately.

The real issue as I see it, is not the 'right' or 'wrong' of the complex gay marriage issue. Instead; what do others 'see' when they interact with us? What do our family members, work colleagues, and neighbors think of our 'walk'?

[Gerr]

So, now that we have established that we are ALL sinners, how then shall we view homosexuality?

Gerry

[Servant]

Welllll, based upon my understanding of God's Word (which is my theoretical base), homosexuality is wrong; and upsetting to God. However, that is only the surface to this layered issue.

In posts above this one, Parade Orange lists sins that to this point, have have contributed mightily to the decline of society as a whole; and have often resulted in in a 'black eye' for the church. And his stance that most ignore, or refuse to address the listed offensive sins is correct too.

I know quite a few persons who practice an alternative lifestyle. And while I do not in any way condone their choice, often, when I compare them as individuals to non-alternative lifesytle persons; they are 'head and shoulders' above the rest; sensitive and intelligent.

So personally, I hesitate to jump on the proverbial "we're ruined; just look at homosexuality prevalence" bandwagon, because we as a church and as a society did not suddenly arrive at this point. Many, many, wrongs and others' painful circumstances and conditions have largely been ignored.

[Parade Orange]

I get the Exodus International(ministry to help gay christians become whole) newsletters and very much support their efforts with my prayers and even a tithe before. They are not political but yesterday I recieved their latest and it commented on the Gay Marriage in CA thing going on. They are not usually political.

Well..... They are against gay marriages!!!!

I am crestfallen! lol! Actually I am not surprised of course.

They are a christian group that reaaly looks at Gays as humans and not thought of as less than. I dont know many christians who really down in their hearts know that homos are equal to them. So its nice to know they're christians that acyually get it and not in denial.

The poster above who calls his or herself SERVANT understands what I have tried so much to share about whats around them and have their heads in the sand about.

maybe we can start a new thread about what Marriage really is. If many feel they are actually threatened if gay marriages is passed. what exactly is a God designed fresh from paradise Marriage.

[olger]

"The greatest want in the world is the want of men.

Men who will not be bought or sold

Men who in their inmost souls are true and honest.

Men who do not fear to call sin by its right name.

Men who's conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole.

Men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall."

oG

[Parade Orange]

Mitchell Tyner sees the forest thru the trees! Why cant SDA's here see it also!!! I will tellu why...

Most SDa's Christians put homosexualty in a different class of repugnant sins and the people who are homosexuals are declared in their own minds as less deserving of rights cause they think ultamately that homosexual males are less human.

Deep in their hearts they are offended to their very core that a man would take on a role as a woman.

Less than manly.

Cause they think woman are inferior to men. Its ok for a woman to wear pants and change a flat tire (if they must) but for a man to put on a dress or take on the recieving end of sexual intercourse is so upsetting to them.

A strong hetero man will not tolerate being called a sissy or being compared to a woman.

They think its demeaning and the person who calls a man a sissy does it cause he/she knows it is demeaning.

It calls attention to their masculinity. To appear weak!!!

there is men here who oppose gay marriages cause its offensive to them and I bring up that very fact thats they believe homos are subhuman and their eyes glaze over cause they wont admit thats the real issue in their heart of hearts.

Talk about DENIAL!

They stand on the scriptures. So did the Pharrasees.

But its a heart thang.

They beleive-

Gays dont deserve basic fundlemental rights! Cause they are deemed less than humans.

Therefore they should not be allowed to marry. No basic cival rights for them cause we be like Rome and fall!! ooooo! and men will want to marry cows! lol (thast not gonna happen ,dont u know that men will not marry the cow if they get the milk for free!!!!!)

And the IDIOTS think they can minister to homosexuals who they deam as inferior?

Wake UP!!

nastiest people you ever wanna meet in church!

I am surrounded!

[Dr. Shane]

Gays are allowed to marry. Marriage is a union of a man and a woman. When a gay man gets married it is to a woman - not another man. "Marrying" another man is itself contrary to the definition of marriage.

Civil unions allow gays to legally partner with each other. Why do gays insist on changing the meaning of the word marriage? Why won't gays be content with the advantages civil unions offer? Because they want the immigration advantages that are limited to marriage. Gays want to be able to "marry" foreign gays and bring them to the US.

[Parade Orange]

They want to marry their partner they have now and will hopefully meet.

That immigration thing is a red herring.

Cival unions are second class.

its like saying blacks can ride on the bus(we will let them get on)- just put them in the back. SECOND CLASS!

cause they dont deserve fair and equal rights cause they are inferior- U just proved my post earlier

Thanku

[Parade Orange]

They want the immigration advantages that are limited to marriages!

So heterosexuals are worthy to immigrate to the U.S. for partnership but not the subhuman gays?

u proved my point again!

[Parade Orange]

geeeez!

[John317]

Hi Parade,

Did you see the July 28 issue of Newsweek, with its lead article about the murder of the "gay" 8th grader, Lawrence King? He was murdered in class at a school in Oxnard, CA. He came out when he was 13 or so, and started coming to school dressed like a girl.

Subtitled "A tale of bullying, sexual identity and the limits of tolerance," it's a very interesting article and offers a lot of insights into some of the things being discussed on this thread.

[Parade Orange]

Hi John317!

Its always nice to speak to u here!

No I was unaware of this crime.

It is very upsetting and my prayers are with the family of the victim and for the murderer and his family.

Apparently the murdering zealot was so upset that a fellow classmate (who had nothing to do with him) was gay or wore a dress(transgender?)

he killed him in cold blood.

What did the murderer have anything to do with the victim?

were they lovers?

was he jilted?

did he steal his twinkie?

did the boy in a dress choose the murderer last for softball?

Did the boy in a dress wear a dress that the murderer found the style to be soooo 90's?

Why did the thug murder a boy in a dress?

was cause he was a sissy?

Not manly? not strong? showing emotions? being who he was?

Why did that bother the thug?

what got to him?

what set him off?

The Bible says we are rulled by either two things in our emotional department.

Love or fear!

What did the murdering zealot fear in himself?

When I was 13 and realized I was gay I dare not tell a soul for over a decade.

So I listened to everyone without bringing the matter up. For if I brought the matter up I would be a target.

So I listened. HARD

and I heard how homos were worthy of death.

My ministers wife(of the little country church that I go to) told my mom that homos(she didnt use that name) should be lined up and shot(as opposed being put on an island).

Maybe that thug listened to my ministers wife!!!!!!!!!

and takin to heart

[John317]

I think there were two big mistakes made, and the article brings these out:

Larry was encouraged by a counselor to wear distracting female clothing and make-up, etc.

And Larry told people he enjoyed watching the boys "squirm" when he told them how "hot" they were in front of others.

Also, while the boy who murdered him was playing basketball with a lot of other kids, Larry went up to him and asked him if he would be his "valentine." He had a crush on this other boy and let it be known. (He did it because the "other girls" were doing it.)

I think Larry should have been told by the teachers and his counselor that it can be dangerous if a gay person approaches a straight man or boy and lets his attraction be known in a way that makes them ashamed or embarrased. It makes some people feel they have to take action in order to regain their honor or respect.

During the years when I was actively gay, I never would have done that. I saw it as disrespectful and also dangerous. We have to face the fact that there are "straight" men who feel threatened by it and would do harm to anyone who did that to them.

[Parade Orange]

yes!

Poor kid didnt know to what depths straight men or boys would sink to prooooooooooooove they are straight.

cause being seen as gay or not manly would absolutly destroy their fragile thin crusted ego!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and we cant have that!

so we kill or deny their rights!

and use the BIBLE to back it up

[Parade Orange]

The kid basically thought it would be better to be thought of as a murdering no good hell bent thug than a sissy.

cause the thug knows from the straight men around him at a gut level-

that being gay is inferior!

[Parade Orange]

and men cant figure that out

all they has do do is look inside

[Parade Orange]

the proof is always in the plum pudding

[John317]

The main thing I think of is that according to the Bible all of mankind is either led by the Holy Spirit or by another spirit-- either by the flesh or by the Spirit. The Spirit will lead us to be loving and kind and understanding toward others, whereas the flesh leads people to react to others with violence and hate. So I don't think that a Christian who is really in-dwelt and led by the Sirit would react to gay people the same way some people do who are dominated by their flesh or sinful nature. See Gal. 5: 16-26.

When I go out on the streets tomorrow, there will be a lot of angry protesters, including gays. All of these groups are very angry and are willing to use violence to try to change the world. I just have to understand them and know that it is not God's Spirit that is motivating them. I am not judging them. I am simply understanding there are differenes between the world of the flesh and the world of Spirit. It can be dangerous to ignore or forget this and think that everyone is motivated the same way.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

They want the immigration advantages that are limited to marriages!

Immigration policy is all about promoting what is healthy for the nation. It is not about equal rights. Mexicans, for example, have a much better chance of being able to get a visa to come to the US than Kenyans. Is that fair? Of course not. However Mexico is one of the largest consumers of American goods. Mexicans that come here will send a large portion of their money home and much of that will return.

When applying to immigrate to the US, those with family already living here are given priority because communities of families make for better communities and thus a better society.

Homosexuality is not the same as heterosexuality. The two lifestyles are so different they are not comparable. There are more parallels between two drinking buddies and two gay guys than there are between a husband and a wife and a gay couple. Should immigration allow men to bring their foreign drinking buddies to the US?

I am all for tolerance. It doesn't bother me if my neighbor is gay. I draw the line at promotion. I don't believe we should be promoting homosexuality and that will be the end result of gay "marriage".

[carolaa]

You have an amazing way of cutting to the chase and making things clear. You should write a book. You're absolutely right, and I think a lot of people would be forced to see themselves as they are. At least the honest in heart would; the rest would still be pharisaically "righteous," of course.

[olger]

I agree, Shane.

Parade if you are free from the sin of homosexuality (as you stated last year) why do you defend it so vociferously?

Thanks,

oG

[carolaa]

I don't see Parade as defending it. He is trying to explain how Christians think of gays and treat them as lower than human. Whether he is free from that lifestyle or not is a moot point.

[Parade Orange]

I always stated that I am gay. Hence the name GAY4JESUS.

and Carolaa is correct. Why does she see what I am saying and U dont?

what is it in u?