1st Amendment and Gay Marriage

[Parade Orange]

Carolaa your sweet!

[Dr. Shane]

Christians are changing. Especially over the past ten years as this topic has been more out in the open. Of course there is still a large portion of Christians that still hang onto their anti-gay prejudice. Yet I think a lot more Christians are open to allowing gays wanting to leave the lifestyle to worship with them and join their churches.

[John317]

Shane, tonight while walking through downtown Denver, I happened on two white guys who looked to be in their mid-twenties preaching in the street. They believe that the US is the Babylon of Revelation and say the US will be destroyed by nuclear weapons. I stopped to listen for about half an hour while waiting for my bus. I was shocked to hear them advocate killing all homosexuals. This sidewalk preacher said, "These days you hear a lot about homosexuals demanding their rights. But the only rights a homosexual has, according to the Bible, is to die."

Fortunately, though, I don't hear very many people expressing that point of view. But when he said it, I looked around at the people on the sidewalk who were listening to him, and I didn't see any surprised looks or anyone shaking their heads or making any sign of objection.

[Parade Orange]

Shane I must confess you left me startled and speechless when you compared a homosexual couple to just drinking buddies.

apparently you didnt form a close,affectionate,caring,nurturing,lasting,deep relationship with your drinking buddy.

Do u have any male friends that you connect with?

Accountable with?

Equal?

Thriving?

Trusting?

Vunerable with?

Communicating freely without fear of condemnation or judgement?

a fishing buddy?

a hunting buddy?

a fixing up a car with buddy?

a traveling buddy?

a sports buddy?

a prayer partner?

a drinking Dr.Pepper buddy?

I hope you dont regard male relationships as trivial and of non import!!!!

Jonathen and David were were war buddies and faith buddies

we all need companionship with the same sex-its all over the BIBLE- whether God Blessed or not

We need like minded people with us to sorrow and to rejoice with.

Men who dont have any friends except their wives are stifled spiritually.

Dont you know that the contempt you have(for their Godgiven wants and desires that have been perverted) will come out in ministering with homosexuals?

[Parade Orange]

and I hope your talking about drinking water and grapejiuce if your blood sugar is too low.

[carolaa]

I agree with Parade on this one. I'm sorry to say, it's an incredibly ignorant statement. I wish I could think of a nicer way to say it.

[Dr. Shane]

In college I lived with a gay roommate on two separate occasions. I was very close to one of them. We hung out together a lot. I knew his friends and lovers well. Later, after I became a Christian, I started a gay outreach ministry because of my endearment to the gay community. During the three years that I ran that ministry I worked with some wonderful people associated with Exodus International. About the only way I could know more about the gay lifestyle is if I were to have actually had gay sex.

[carolaa]

So it's obvious your friend wasn't in a committed relationship. That's no different than a promiscuous heterosexual.

[Dr. Shane]

Oh I have known gays in "committed relationships". The term "committed relationship" does not mean the same to homosexuals as it does to heterosexuals. I have to admit I don't know much about lesbianism. But as far as male homosexuality goes, it is not comparable to heterosexual marriage. It is more comparable to a couple of drinking buddies.

[Parade Orange]

Well if thats how you look at homos in a relationship no wonder you are against homosexual marriages.

Thanks for clarifying.

I have not had the same kind of relationships that you have seen so of course I see it very differently.

If u only knew

[John317]

Oh I have known gays in "committed relationships". The term "committed relationship" does not mean the same to homosexuals as it does to heterosexuals. I have to admit I don't know much about lesbianism. But as far as male homosexuality goes, it is not comparable to heterosexual marriage. It is more comparable to a couple of drinking buddies.

There are gay couples who are committed to each other in the sense that they don't cheat on one another.

It's well recognized in the gay community that female couples are more faithful to one another than the male couples are.

I've known quite a few couples who were in "long term" relationships and some who married their partners. Some would not "play around" at all. Others had agreements with their partner that each could be with someone else once in a while.

Some heterosexuals also have similar agreements with their spouses, and it typically begins with the husband, although not always.

One of the main reasons that the gay male couples are not as faithful to each other sexually as the lesbians are is that the sex drive of males is generally different than that of the females. Females look at intimacy and the sex act differently than men do.

I've noticed that if a gay couple both have conservative religious backgrounds and consider themselves committed Christians, they are far more likely to remain faithful to their partner.

Contrary to what some people might think, there are gay male couples who remain deeply attached emotionally for life.

As a Christian who understands the Bible view of agape-love, I wouldn't say that these couple love each other with a love from God; but their affection and eros-and-philo-like love is very profound and often does last a life-time.

[Dr. Shane]

I have known gay couples that love each other emotionally very much. But the love would be best described as emotional fondness. I have had these couples tell me that faithfulness is a heterosexual concept and trying to tell them to be sexually faithful to each other is to tell them to act like heterosexuals.

[John317]

Sure, what you say is true of some, possibly even many, couples. Those kinds of relationships as you've described certainly do exist, of course.

But it's hard to base a general truth about gays on the basis of anecdotal evidence, because there are many gays who have never even had a long-term relationship. For one thing our society discourages gays from establishing those kinds of relationships, and for anther thing. a lot of gay men are simply not interested in that kind of relationship.

So it's theoretically possible, and even likely, for one to know some gay men and yet not know any who have established a deep relationship with another gay man. But of course that wouldn't mean that there aren't a lot of gay men who do have these deep, committed relationships.

Gays who go to the gay churches-- they used to be called Metropolitan Community Churches-- are more likely to have long-term relationships than the average gay man on the street or in the bar. At least that was my experience.

However, the "gay life" or "lifestyle" is very complex so that it's impossible to do more than skim the surface of it in a few short paragraphs.

[Parade Orange]

John317 Thanku for sharing that.

I am not as eloquent as u and you hit the nail on the head.

What Shane may have not seen or explored in his gay ministry outreach is that many gays are want to emotionally connect with other men cause they always longed for the emotional connection as opposed to just sexual connection.Many men think more than just body parts.Some want hearts to connect.

and it does happen

[Dr. Shane]

Let me clarify for a moment. My ministry was an outeach ministry. We just reached out to gays. When they responded we referred them to gay exit ministries affiliated with Exodus International.

Quote:

many gays are want to emotionally connect with other men cause they always longed for the emotional connection as opposed to just sexual connection.

In my experience, male homosexuality is all about trying to find an emotional connection. However many gays confuse the emotional with the sexual. Male homosexuality is so different than traditional heterosexuality that the two are really not comparable. The gay rights movement tries to simplify it to being simply an alternative lifestyle in that the gay person prefers the same sex rather than the opposite sex. That is like saying an alcoholic simply prefers beer rather than soda pop. There is a lot more to it than that. It is complex and it is a disorder.

[Parade Orange]

Shane I left that out and thanku for saying that.

As gay it is about emotional connection as a child then sexualizes as they get older.

I think 100 times faster than I yype and I leave so much out when I am here. Thats why I need a wordsmith to stand in for me like John317 here.

yes it is emotional connection and men can separate their emotion from their physical much better than woman hence the rampant sex among gay men.

but comparing gay men ,who want connection and want togetherness and may have found it with each other, with drinking buddies (out of conveinance following your train of thought )says how you really regard human hearts that dont share the same theology or lifestyle as you.

Thats so embarrasing

[Dr. Shane]

I, for one, was emotionally attached to my drinking buddies. Perhaps that is the disconnect. I can go as far as to say I loved my drinking buddies. Most alcoholics do. One of the hardest things about giving up the booze is giving up our drinking buddies. In AA we have a saying "Change our playgrounds, change our playmates" and that is very tough to do be cause most of us alcoholics were emotionally attached to our 'playmates'. While the alcoholic doesn't have sex with his drinking buddies (unless they are both gay) they do become emotionally attached to each other - much like two gay guys become emotionally attached to each other.

[Parade Orange]

Shane, I heavely alluded to that in post #182119- I wasnt sure what a drinking buddy meant to u!

I wasnt sure what male to male straight friendship meant to u-sober or tipsy.

So I asked!

and nothing happened sooooo....

Thanku for making it clear to everyone how close drinking buddies can be in your opinion.

U had a few guessing

I am not embarrassed for you now- I am glad you have had tender regard for ole buddies.

now remeber that old proverb....

If you cant be with the one you love-Love the one your with.

Sometimes life works that way!