Amelia Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Child bride gets divorced after rape, beatings By Paula Newton CNN Editor's note: CNN does not usually identify children of alleged abuse, but in this case the girl and her family gave CNN permission to tell her story and use her name. SANAA, Yemen (CNN) -- Nujood Ali is 10 years old, but she already has been married and divorced. It was an arranged marriage in which she said a husband three times her age routinely beat and raped her. "When I got married, I was afraid. I didn't want to leave home. I wanted to stay with my brothers and sisters and my mom and dad," she said, speaking to CNN with the permission of her parents. "I didn't want to sleep with him, but he forced me to. He hit me, insulted me." As she plays marbles with her brothers and sister, Nujood is a portrait of innocence, with a shy smile and a playful nature. But what happened evokes anger and shame. Asked if what she went through was torture, she nods quietly. Nujood's parents married her off in February to a man in his 30s whom she describes as old and ugly. Her parents said they thought they were putting her in the care of her husband's family, but Nujood said he would often beat her into submission. Nujood then turned to her family for mercy. "When I heard, my heart burned for her; he wasn't supposed to sleep with her," said Nujood's mother, who asked not to be identified. But, initially, she also told her daughter she could not help her -- that she belonged to her husband now. Nujood's father, Ali Mohammed Ahdal, said he is angry about what happened to his daughter. "He was a criminal, a criminal. He did hateful things to her," he said. "He didn't keep his promise to me that he wouldn't go near her until she was 20." When contacted by CNN, the girl's former husband declined to comment. Nujood's parents, like so many others in Yemen, struck a social bargain when they decided to have their daughter wed. More than half of all Yemeni girls are married off before the age of 18, according to Oxfam International, a nonprofit group that fights global poverty and injustice. Many times girls are forced to marry older men, including some who already have at least one wife, Oxfam said. According to tribal customs, the girls are no longer viewed as a financial or moral burden to their parents. "There is always a fear that the girl will do something to dishonor the family: She will run away with a guy, she will have relations with a boy. So this is always the phobia that the families have," said Suha Bashren of Oxfam International. Bashren calls the tradition of child brides in Yemen a national crisis. She works with young girls to protect them from early marriage, abuse and one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world. The Yemeni government is holding legal and religious workshops to try to deal with the issue of early marriage. But experts say marrying off a young daughter is generally still seen as the right thing to do. "A lot of people in the public don't think that this is wrong or that what happened to her was abuse," Bashren said. In Yemen, there is nothing new or extraordinary about Nujood's story because children have been married off for generations. The country's legal minimum age for marriage was 15 till a decade ago, when the law was changed to allow for children even younger to be wed. But what is most unusual is that this young girl took such an intensely private dispute and went public with it. Nujood said she made up her mind to escape from her husband, describing how on a visit to her parents' home she broke free and traveled to the central courthouse across town and demanded to speak to a judge. "He asked me, 'What do you want?' And I said, 'I want a divorce.' And he said, 'You're married?' And I said, 'Yes,'" she recalled. What unfolded in those few days in April gripped the country on the southern tip of the Arabian Peninsula. Nujood got her divorce, but based on the principles of Islamic Sharia law, her husband was compensated, not prosecuted. Nujood was ordered to pay him more than $200. The human rights lawyer who represented her donated the money. But for this determined spirit, it was still a sweet victory. "I did this so that people would listen and think about not marrying their daughters off as young as I was," she said with a shy smile. Now back at the family home, she said she won't go outside to play -- that all the attention bothers her. Some still condemn the young girl for speaking out, believing that she shouldn't have challenged convention Human rights advocates said it will take more than a generation if this practice is to change in Yemen for other children. "These girls are living in a misery that no one is talking about," Oxfam's Bashren said Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p>
Guest gem Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 I didn't know this thing also exist in that part of this world. This story reminds me of the movie titled, "Water". The setting was in India. The girl, Chuyia, 8 years old was married and just lost her husband, who was old. She was deposited in the ashram for Hindu widows to spend the rest of her life in renunciation. WATER (2005 Film) Quote
Administrators Gail Posted July 18, 2008 Administrators Posted July 18, 2008 Saw that movie! The Deepa Mehta trilogy are three of my favorites- Water, Earth and Fire. They are all great and somewhat controversial films reflecting Indian issues. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Guest gem Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 I really like the WATER. I heard good comments about the Earth and Fire, i still need to watch those 2. Water was so much on culture, traditions, spirituality, poverty, prostitution, and love. It could make viewers cry and furious. Quote
Dr. Shane Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I don't know if it is rape if the two are married. I mean, under Islamic Sharia law I doubt he raped the girl he was married to. Now him promising not to sleep with her until she was 20 should have raised a red flag. I can see promising until she was 13 or 15 years old but in these countries where 13 and 15 year old girls are often married, why would someone wait until age 20 to sleep with someone they are legally married to? My point being, when he promised that the parents should have known he was a liar right away. I am glad she got out of that situation. I am sure may other girls have not. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
olger Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Disgusting... (Not you, Shane. The story..) og Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
cricket Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I don't know if it is rape if the two are married. I mean, under Islamic Sharia law I doubt he raped the girl he was married to. Now him promising not to sleep with her until she was 20 should have raised a red flag. I can see promising until she was 13 or 15 years old but in these countries where 13 and 15 year old girls are often married, why would someone wait until age 20 to sleep with someone they are legally married to? My point being, when he promised that the parents should have known he was a liar right away. I am glad she got out of that situation. I am sure may other girls have not. A stinkweed by any other name would still smell as putrid! Quote
Dr. Shane Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Marriage in western society is quite different than it is in many parts of the world, especially the Arab world. In western society women have many more rights. Married women can murder (aka abort) their children without their husband's consent. Women can divorce their husbands without grounds and often times gain custody of the children and force him to pay child support. So marriage is very much different in the western world. In the western world we consider it rape if when a man desires sexual relations and the woman says no and he has sex with her anyway. He need not physically hurt her by hitting, pinching or holding her down for it to be considered rape. In fact, he can kiss her, whisper sweet nothings in her ears and tickle her afterwards and still be considered a rapist. In other parts of the world the wife belongs to the husband. She owes him sexual relations just as he owes her food, shelter and clothing. It is the man's responsibility to provide for the wife and children and it is her responsibility to have sex with him. Thus the woman has no right to say "no" when the husband requests sex which completely changes the definition of rape. So what the west views as rape other parts of the world view quite differently. Who is right? Well, since I live in the west I tend to think we are right. But if I lived in the Arab world I might think they were right. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
cricket Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 But if I lived in the Arab world I might think they were right. There's at least one 10 year-old girl in the Arab world who understands what's right and what's wrong concerning her body; at least one who hasn't been tainted by a perversion of human thought processes. I for one, am glad you're living in America, Shane. I'd be scared to think what ideas you'd permit yourself if you were living anywhere else. You're scary enough as it is, in my opinion. Quote
Dr. Shane Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 First, I was referring to the Arab's definition of rape and how it is related to marriage. I was not referring to the custom of young wives. Just across the river from me Mexicans commonly marry at 13 - 15 years old. So I get that. 10 years olds I don't get. Secondly, I am not so quick to condemn other cultures with the America-must-be-right syndrome. The Bible seems to indicate that a man has the obligation to provide for his family and both the husband and the wife are obligated to give each other sexual relations. So a woman wanting to live according to the Bible would not be refusing her husband (except for an unusual circumstance such as illness) and thus place herself in a position to be raped. I cannot speak for other Christian men married to Christian wives but in my marriage this has never been an issue. That said, I cannot grasp the mentality of rape. Violence and sex simply do not mix for me. Obviously a man needs to be sexually aroused in order to perform. I do not understand how a man can be violent and sexually aroused. Those are two completely different states for me. I can get angry and perhaps even violent but not at the same time that I am sexually aroused. For me it has to be one or the other. So I think there is something psychologically wrong with men that can violently rape a woman. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
cricket Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Mexicans commonly marry at 13 - 15 years old. So I get that. 10 years olds I don't get. Quote
Dr. Shane Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Quote: A woman NEVER "places herself" in a position to be raped. That simply is not true. The majority of date rape on college campuses happens to women that are intoxicated. Going to a party alone and getting drunk is a means that a woman can place herself in a position to be raped. That doesn't mean she is "asking" to be raped. If she was "asking" it wouldn't be rape. When I get in my car and go driving on the road I am putting myself in a position to be hit by a drunk driver. That doesn't mean I am asking for a drunk driver to hit me. It just means I an putting myself in a position to be a possible victim. There are some things we can do to avoid being victims of certain crimes and then there are some chances we just have to take. Obviously if a wife always has sex with her husband when he asks for it, he cannot rape her. That is not to say he can't be a physically abusive pig. But if she is always consenting, he cannot rape her. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Dr. Shane Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Quote: That's SCARY! It has nothing to do with culture, but with common sense. Be the child 10, 13, 14 or 15, she is still a child. I think that is a very Americanized thought. Many people in many parts of the world would disagree. 10 years old is a child. Yes. But in many societies when a girl starts menstruating she is ready for marriage. We Americans, myself included, will disagree with that. I was very taken back when friends of ours in Mexico got married at 13 and had babies when they were 14. But that is not unusual. These girls are still our friends and are now 17 and 19 respectively. They seem to be happy in life and doing well. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
cricket Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Quote: A woman NEVER "places herself" in a position to be raped. That simply is not true. The majority of date rape on college campuses happens to women that are intoxicated. Going to a party alone and getting drunk is a means that a woman can place herself in a position to be raped. That doesn't mean she is "asking" to be raped. If she was "asking" it wouldn't be rape. When I get in my car and go driving on the road I am putting myself in a position to be hit by a drunk driver. That doesn't mean I am asking for a drunk driver to hit me. It just means I an putting myself in a position to be a possible victim. There are some things we can do to avoid being victims of certain crimes and then there are some chances we just have to take. Obviously if a wife always has sex with her husband when he asks for it, he cannot rape her. That is not to say he can't be a physically abusive pig. But if she is always consenting, he cannot rape her. By this logic, a woman places herself in a position to be raped each and every day she walks on planet Earth. Men have penises. Men will rape women. By the same logic, men place themselves in position to be rapists--by the very fact they allow themselves to have penises (and yes, allow---there is the option of having them surgically removed). Quote
cricket Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Quote: That's SCARY! It has nothing to do with culture, but with common sense. Be the child 10, 13, 14 or 15, she is still a child. I think that is a very Americanized thought. Many people in many parts of the world would disagree. 10 years old is a child. Yes. But in many societies when a girl starts menstruating she is ready for marriage. We Americans, myself included, will disagree with that. I was very taken back when friends of ours in Mexico got married at 13 and had babies when they were 14. But that is not unusual. These girls are still our friends and are now 17 and 19 respectively. They seem to be happy in life and doing well. Were you taken aback because you think like an American, or were you taken aback because you know in your heart of hearts that it's wrong? Just because I'm an American and think this way doesn't mean it's an "Americanized" thought. Shane, having been a 13 year old girl at one time, I *KNOW* beyond a shadow of a doubt that 13 is too young to be having children. Quote
Dr. Shane Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Q: Why is it that so many people do not go out on News Year's Eve? A: There are more drunk drivers out on New Year's Eve so the roads are more dangerous. There are certain things we can do which will increase our risk of becoming a victim. A woman refusing to have sex with her husband certainly places her at a greater risk of being raped according to the western world's difinition of rape. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Amelia Posted July 21, 2008 Author Posted July 21, 2008 Quote: There are certain things we can do which will increase our risk of becoming a victim. A woman refusing to have sex with her husband certainly places her at a greater risk of being raped according to the western world's difinition of rape. So a wife should never deny her husband for fear of getting raped? Phooey Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p>
Neil D Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 There are certain things we can do which will increase our risk of becoming a victim. A woman refusing to have sex with her husband certainly places her at a greater risk of being raped according to the western world's difinition of rape. I know that there are 'risky' behaviors that place women at risk, but a wife refusing to have sex with her husband..? Or going out on New Years Eve to a New Year's Eve party is going to place the woman at risk for rape? Why is it that men, when doing these risky behaviors, are not raped? Is that a reason for these behaviors to be risky? There is something definately wrong with the logic, here....These behaviors are not conducive to the act of rape, but rather control. That is what is wrong...It's a control issue, not a rape issue... Ach! What do I know? I don't place myself in those type of situations.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. Â George Bernard Shaw Â
Dr. Shane Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 There is definitely something wrong. We live in a sinful world. There are criminals and bad people in it and we have to be aware of what we are doing that may increase our risk of these bad people hurting us. Quote: So a wife should never deny her husband for fear of getting raped? Well, that is not exactly how the Apostle Paul put it. "First, Is it a good thing to have sexual relations? 2-6Certainly—but only within a certain context. It's good for a man to have a wife, and for a woman to have a husband. Sexual drives are strong, but marriage is strong enough to contain them and provide for a balanced and fulfilling sexual life in a world of sexual disorder. The marriage bed must be a place of mutuality—the husband seeking to satisfy his wife, the wife seeking to satisfy her husband. Marriage is not a place to "stand up for your rights." Marriage is a decision to serve the other, whether in bed or out. Abstaining from sex is permissible for a period of time if you both agree to it, and if it's for the purposes of prayer and fasting—but only for such times. Then come back together again. Satan has an ingenious way of tempting us when we least expect it. I'm not, understand, commanding these periods of abstinence—only providing my best counsel if you should choose them." 1 Corinthians 7:1-6 The Message Fear should never be a motivation in our marriages. A wife shouldn't refuse to have sexual relations because she has the attitude of servitude. The same reason a husband shouldn't refuse to have sexual relations. At least, according to Paul. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
ChildofChrist Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Sex without consent is rape.,,even if they are married to each other. Rape isn't about sex though, but power and both males and females are subject to be so victimized. Sad to say how the laws of various countries define such various intimate volations. Quote Wakan Tanka Kici Un ~~Child of Christ~~
Dr. Shane Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 First, let's do away with the strawman. Just because a woman may place herself in a position to be victimized doesn't mean she bares any blame. Consider the drunk driver example again. Just because I go driving on New Year's Eve doesn't make me to blame if a drunk driver hits me. Does it? No, it does not. Males are not taught they have a dominant role. Men are taught they are to love their wives as Christ loved the church. Men are to serve their wives, just as wives are to serve their husbands. The issue of a woman placing herself in danger is separate from the wrongness of rape. It is ignorant to pretend that there are not some situations that place a woman in a position where she is more likely to be violated. That doesn't mean women in those positions bare any of the blame. Rape is wrong. In this thread we are discussing rape in the Arabic culture. To say "No means no" shows a lack of understanding of their culture. It smacks of American superiority. America says "No means no" so the rest of the world ought to follow our lead. While I agree that no should always mean no, I am not so arrogant to say that any culture disagreeing with us is automatically wrong. In the case of a marriage, some cultures believe the wife doesn't have the right to say no. I think they are wrong. I am American. But... that is their culture. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Moderators Bravus Posted July 21, 2008 Moderators Posted July 21, 2008 In general I agree strongly with the principle of respect for other cultures. I found this quote the other day, though, in relation to the Hindu custom of 'sati' - burning widows with their dead husbands: Quote: British attitudes in their later history in India are usually given in the following much repeated quote, usually ascribed to General Napier - You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours. Seems imperialistic in a way, but on the other hand I have a lot of sympathy for it. Maybe there's a place, in some cases of marital rape and abuse, for us to follow *our* customs... Quote Truth is important
Dr. Shane Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 There is a significant difference between burning a living woman and allowing a man to force himself on his wife. I agree that both are distasteful. There is a lot in Sharia law that I disagree with. However in the context of this story, it reports that a man was raping his 10 year old wife. My comments were that in that culture it probably isn't considered rape. So should we condemn a guy for doing something that is not morally wrong in his culture? My answer to that is no. However 1. I don't understand the mentality of a rapist - a person that mixes violence and sex. 2. The fact that the "wife" was only 10 is repugnant even in that cultre. Remember he had promised not to have sex with her until she was 20. 3. Our definition of rape includes acts that do not involve violence. Statutory rape and some forms of date rape involve no violence. There are other cultures which would not define those as rape. Since rape is considered by some as a violent, rather than a sexual, crime. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
cricket Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 So should we condemn a guy for doing something that is not morally wrong in his culture? Quote
Liz Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 You know, I think people get too wrapped up hanging onto their culture. I mean, I think that they want to wrap their culture around them making themselves impervious to moral judgement. I think if it is morally wrong, it is morally wrong, no matter what culture you were brought up in or choose to identify with. I don't think GOD is going to judge us based on what our cultural background was or is, if it is wrong it is wrong, and we will be judged based on that, our cultural background will never be an excuse to sin. Quote For what will a man be profited, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his soul? Mat. 16:26Please, support the JDRF and help find a cure for Type 1 Diabetes. Please, support the March of Dimes.
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