Astronaut Says Government Covering Up UFOs

[Bravus]

Quote:

This calls for a question I am very interested in.

In Daniel 9: 20-23, it appears that about the time Daniel began to pray, the angel Gabriel was ordered by God to go to Daniel and teach him about the vision that Daniel had been praying about. If that is true-- and given the fact that the prayer only lasted maybe about 15 minutes,--it means that the angel would have needed to travel many millions of miles in a very short period of time. Let us suppose that heaven-- as I believe it is--is somewhere on a planet in the middle of the constellation Orion.

That certainly means Gabriel would have had to travel much faster than the speed of light, would it not?

If he had traveled the speed of sound, how long is it likely to have taken Gabriel to travel that distance?

(I realize the angel Gabriel may have received God's order to travel to Daniel while the angel was somewhere else either on earth or at some other location nearer our planet.)

My own take on this is that angels are another order of being, not part of our space-time continuum but able to manifest their presence here. Hence how they can also be invisible and imperceptible, fly through space without spacecraft and so on. If that's the case they may well not be subject to the laws of physics in this universe, including the lightspeed limit. They may also be able to move between far-apart places in the universe without passing through all of the intervening space (i.e. by taking a 'shortcut' through a different universe).

Of course, I also think heaven is similar to this in some ways and doesn't have a specific physical location in this universe, which may make the question moot, but the general question is interesting.

I hope it goes without saying that all this is speculation on my part...

[Robert]

It is obvious when we look at what Satan has done to His creator, Jesus Christ, that if He could, Satan would take the life even of God Himself.

The self-righteous Jews, who were used of Satan, tried to kill Christ numerous times, "but no one laid a hand on him, because his time had not yet come."

Only when God abandoned Christ did harm come to Him:

"When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness."

So clearly God was in control.

Neither God nor His angels have to resort to violence. In fact they can't murder for it is not within their natures. Our ways are not God's ways and so we kill and murder. Besides all war is sin. Kill or be killed smacks with the love of self. The last generation of Christians, instead of picking up a gun and defending themselves, loved not their lives even unto death.

You must also remember that God can't die. You can't kill him. As EGW states, "Deity can't sink and die, that would be impossible."

Rob

[D. Allan]

My own take on this is that angels are another order of being, not part of our space-time continuum but able to manifest their presence here. Hence how they can also be invisible and imperceptible, fly through space without spacecraft and so on. If that's the case they may well not be subject to the laws of physics in this universe, including the lightspeed limit. They may also be able to move between far-apart places in the universe without passing through all of the intervening space (i.e. by taking a 'shortcut' through a different universe).

Of course, I also think heaven is similar to this in some ways and doesn't have a specific physical location in this universe, which may make the question moot, but the general question is interesting.

I hope it goes without saying that all this is speculation on my part...

It is all interesting. My speculation is that "angels" are part of our internal landscape. Just as heaven is. In that sense mystics who see "angels" are having experiences similiar to those who see "devils". Heaven and Hell are states of mind.

Of course all speculation. But maybe not "total" speculation.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

It is obvious when we look at what Satan has done to His creator, Jesus Christ, that if He could, Satan would take the life even of God Himself.

The self-righteous Jews, who were used of Satan, tried to kill Christ numerous times, "but no one laid a hand on him, because his time had not yet come."

Only when God abandoned Christ did harm come to Him:

"When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness."

So clearly God was in control.

Neither God nor His angels have to resort to violence. In fact they can't murder for it is not within their natures. Our ways are not God's ways and so we kill and murder. Besides all war is sin. Kill or be killed smacks with the love of self. The last generation of Christians, instead of picking up a gun and defending themselves, loved not their lives even unto death.

You must also remember that God can't die. You can't kill him. As EGW states, "Deity can't sink and die, that would be impossible."

Rob

Yes, that's all true. I agree with all of it.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

My own take on this is that angels are another order of being, not part of our space-time continuum but able to manifest their presence here. Hence how they can also be invisible and imperceptible, fly through space without spacecraft and so on. If that's the case they may well not be subject to the laws of physics in this universe, including the lightspeed limit. They may also be able to move between far-apart places in the universe without passing through all of the intervening space (i.e. by taking a 'shortcut' through a different universe).

Of course, I also think heaven is similar to this in some ways and doesn't have a specific physical location in this universe, which may make the question moot, but the general question is interesting.

I hope it goes without saying that all this is speculation on my part...

It is all interesting. My speculation is that "angels" are part of our internal landscape. Just as heaven is. In that sense mystics who see "angels" are having experiences similiar to those who see "devils". Heaven and Hell are states of mind.

Of course all speculation. But maybe not "total" speculation.

It sounds, though, as if you don't believe that there is any objective reality to those things; that they are all just states of the human mind, rather than being actually "out there." If that is true, then all we're talking about is our imaginations. So, on that view, the temptation of Christ, for instance, was nothing more than a struggle about choices going on inside His own head. Is that how you see it?

[D. Allan]

Quote:

So, on that view, the temptation of Christ, for instance, was nothing more than a struggle about choices going on inside His own head. Is that how you see it?

That's close. But there is more to it of course. As I said before, "speculation" but maybe not "total" speculation.

We all have the same struggle, and same choices to make inside our heads.