What does it mean ...

[Woody]

to be righteous?

Love WON Another

[Joe_in_RP]

Unselfish love.

[Planey]

...to be righteous?

I'm not sure, but I have been told by people whose knowledge is much greater than mine, that "righteousness by faith" is more accurately translated as "justification by faith".

Graeme

[jasd]

>>...to be righteous?<<

To be upright..., a square-shooter, like John Wayne, mebbe.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

to be righteous?

to keep one's finger in the hole of the dike without bragging about it..

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

...to be righteous?

I'm not sure, but I have been told by people whose knowledge is much greater than mine, that "righteousness by faith" is more accurately translated as "justification by faith".

Graeme

To be righteous means to be conformed to the Divine will in thought, purpose, and action.

Both the word "righteousness" and "justification" are sometimes translated from the same Greek word. "Justification" only occurs two times in the NT, in Romans 4: 25 and 5:18. There it has the sense of "God's declaring people free from guilt and acceptable to him; adjudging to be righteous."

At Romans 5: 21, the original word is usually translated "righteousness" (NASB; NKJ; RSV; NIV; Amplified); but it is occasionally translated as "justification" (NRSV). Its fundamental meaning here is "right standing with God."

On the other hand, in Romans 6: 18, the same underlying Greek word in this particular verse is always translated as "righteousness." It's referring to the fact that believers "become slaves to righteousness" (NRSV; NASB; NKJV), not "slaves to justification."

We become more like Jesus through a loving, faith-based relationship with Christ, and in that sense, righteousness by faith includes much more than being declared justified or right with God. The process of being conformed to God's will includes what is sometimes called "sanctification," as in Acts 26: 20. The Biblical concept is that believers are declared right with God, being set apart for God's holy purpose at the time they accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior. But then there is also the Bible teaching that believers go on to become more like Christ in their actual experience.

[Planey]

The Biblical concept is that believers are declared right with God, being set apart for God's holy purpose at the time they accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior. But then there is also the Bible teaching that believers go on to become more like Christ in their actual experience.

So its sort of like a down-payment by God, and then its up to us to put in the hard yards to ensure the full payment is made?

Graeme

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: John317

The Biblical concept is that believers are declared right with God, being set apart for God's holy purpose at the time they accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior. But then there is also the Bible teaching that believers go on to become more like Christ in their actual experience.

So its sort of like a down-payment by God, and then its up to us to put in the hard yards to ensure the full payment is made?

Graeme

It's been paid in full. It's a walk of faith from beginning to the end.

Gerry

[Gerr]

to be righteous?

Love WON Another

"Righteousness is holiness, likeness to God, and 'God is love.' 1 Jn 4:16. It is conformity to the law of God, for 'all Thy commandments are righteousness' (Ps 119:172), and 'love is the fulfilling of the law' (Rom 13:10). Righteousness is love, and love is the light and the life of God. The righteousness of God is embodied in Christ. We receive righteousness by receiving Him." MB 18

Gerry

[BibleShockers]

There are two statements made here that I think need to be demonstrated from Scripture:

* that Jesus "paid it all"

* that one must "receive Jesus as one's personal savior"

I would say that "righteous" means one of these two thing:

* you have never been anything but morally approved by God because of your conformity to his character and expressed will

Or

* you have been forgiven of all past sins and are currently morally approved by God because of your conformity to his character and expressed will

Bill Ross

[Stan]

There are all kinds of Bible Shockers..

There is no support for saying you go to heaven when you die.

There is no support for an everlasting burn Hell

Adam and Eve never ate an apple.

There was no statement for reversing the OT law to not eat pork, oysters etc.

There was no statement for Christians to change the day of rest to Sunday from the day Jesus worshipped on.

The "receive Jesus as one's personal savior" is clearly overstated today compared to it's usage in the NT, the concept is there, but it is not packaged in a short sentence.

Jesus "paid it all" can only be understood if you understand the OT sanctuary and why we do not sacrifice anymore for an atonement.

[BibleShockers]

>>>There is no support for saying you go to heaven when you die.

Agreed.

>>>>There is no support for an everlasting burn Hell

Agreed.

>>>Adam and Eve never ate an apple.

Agreed.

>>>There was no statement for reversing the OT law to not eat pork, oysters etc.

The law is unalterable. What has changed is that Christians are not beholden to the law. Consider the laws of France. If you are not a citizen, they don't apply. So also the Christian is not under the laws of the Jews. It is a matter of jurisdiction. Hence:

Acts 10:

9 ¶ On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

>>>There was no statement for Christians to change the day of rest to Sunday from the day Jesus worshipped on.

Again, seventh day observance is only a statue under Jewish law which is not applicable to believers.

>>>The "receive Jesus as one's personal savior" is clearly overstated today compared to it's usage in the NT, the concept is there, but it is not packaged in a short sentence.

It muddies the water to speak in unscriptural terms.

>>>Jesus "paid it all" can only be understood if you understand the OT sanctuary and why we do not sacrifice anymore for an atonement.

Again, the term muddies the water as it is not the language nor concept of the text.

Bill Ross

[Stan]

Keep on reading in Acts 10, it says specifically what that vision meant. Try and find other support for that.

The Sabbath was given to Man, not to the Jews, you are reading into it something that is not there. Another Bible shocker

It will be celebrated in the Earth made new,

[BibleShockers]

>>>Keep on reading in Acts 10, it says specifically what that vision meant. Try and find other support for that.

Romans 14:

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Judaism consisted of dietary laws and such, but Paul says that these are not the stuff of Christianity.

>>>The Sabbath was given to Man, not to the Jews, you are reading into it something that is not there. Another Bible shocker

I said that it is a **statute** (law) only to the Jews.

>>>It will be celebrated in the Earth made new,

If so, fine and dandy, but it is not a law to which believers are obligated now.

Bill Ross

[Stan]

Check this out... I think Joel Osteen is the Pastor of the largest Church in America. I could be wrong with that.

[Stan]

Romans 14, re read it, it was talking about foods offered to idols, a common event then.

Even today, if you travel, some Christians will not eat food that has been offered to idols. Would you? Would I?

You have some good stuff on your website.. Hopefully you can add more after more research is done..

[BibleShockers]

That was the occaission, but this is what he said:

Ro 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

But the greater wisdom is to see that the believer is dead to the whole of the law and is not subject to it.

So in your view, what happens if a believer eats pork?

Bill Ross

[D. Allan]

here is some of my half-wit theologizing

Quote:

Or

* you have been forgiven of all past sins and are currently morally approved by God because of your conformity to his character and expressed will

......because once committed a sin is immediately in the past. amazing!

But what about sins that have not yet been committed?

ok, back to the serious stuff

/dAb

[Stan]

Isaiah 66:17: KJV

17They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Isaiah 65:4: Amplified

4Who sit among the graves [trying to talk with the dead] and lodge among the secret places [or caves where familiar spirits were thought to dwell]; who eat swine's flesh, and the broth of abominable and loathsome things is in their vessels;

I know these are in the OT, it just does not specify that it for Jews only.. Muslims also do not eat pork etc.

I do suspect, that this will be added to your list one day of bible shockers..

Am not expecting you to believe all this right now... but I think you will see the logic of it, even if you are not convinced.

In the time of Jesus, and this is important, pig was not considered food, as today, in North American we do not consider dogs, cats, snakes and mice as food, as they do in some countries. AND yes, there are some people in NA that eat even those, but in day-t0-day conversation we generally do not accept puppies and kitties as food. That concept needs to be in the mind when you place yourself 2000 years ago in a conversation.

[Stan]

Perhaps other biblical shockers

Teaching kids to pray to Jesus? Where is that foundation?

[John317]

Amazing! See how God uses others to get His message out to the world. Joel Osteen probably had no idea he's preaching parts of the Three Angels' Message. He's got quite an audience when you include all the people who hear his tapes and watch the videos. Wonderful to see.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

The Biblical concept is that believers are declared right with God, being set apart for God's holy purpose at the time they accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior. But then there is also the Bible teaching that believers go on to become more like Christ in their actual experience.

So its sort of like a down-payment by God, and then its up to us to put in the hard yards to ensure the full payment is made?

Graeme

I can do nothing better than to direct your attention to Romans 8 and 2 Peter 1: 2-11. The believer's walk with Christ is a walk of trust and faith every day. As we received Him, so should we continue to walk in Him. "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy" (Jude 24).

Look at this wonderful passage:

NKJV-- Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

NCV-- Grace and peace be given to you more and more, because you truly know God and Jesus our Lord. Jesus has the power of God, by which he has given us everything we need to live and to serve God. We have these things because we know him. Jesus called us by his glory and goodness. Through these he gave us the very great and precious promises. With these gifts you can share in God's nature, and the world will not ruin you with its evil desires. 2 Peter 1: 2-4

[BibleShockers]

>>>......because once committed a sin is immediately in the past. amazing!

Well, there is such a thing as sinning in the present tense:

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit [present tense] sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin [present tense], because he is born of God.

>>>But what about sins that have not yet been committed?

The Greek present tense runs from the past, through the present into the forseeable future. The point I was making is that if you are presently sinning then you are not righteous:

1Jo 3:

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth [present tense] righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Bill Ross

[BibleShockers]

>>>I know these are in the OT, it just does not specify that it for Jews only.. Muslims also do not eat pork etc.

What is the relevance of what Muslims deem appropriate? Or the Jews for that matter? For Paul, and for Jesus, all foods were clean and would not defile a man. The jurisdiction of the law does not extend to the believer.

>>I do suspect, that this will be added to your list one day of bible shockers..

It is shocking that God would threaten to kill people for eating certain animals, and then say "well, never mind, they are ok." But, that is the case, so just because I find it inconsistent doesn't mean the Bible does.

>>>Am not expecting you to believe all this right now... but I think you will see the logic of it, even if you are not convinced.

Logic? What logic?

>>>In the time of Jesus, and this is important, pig was not considered food,

By whom? The Egyptians considered the lamb a disgusting animal.

>>>as today, in North American we do not consider dogs, cats, snakes and mice as food, as they do in some countries.

Ok.

>>>AND yes, there are some people in NA that eat even those, but in day-t0-day conversation we generally do not accept puppies and kitties as food. That concept needs to be in the mind when you place yourself 2000 years ago in a conversation.

It is a bizarre feature of religion that it endeavors to make such it a huge concern to the deity which foods one eats.

Bill Ross

[BibleShockers]

>>>Teaching kids to pray to Jesus? Where is that foundation?

Indeed. The worshiped Jesus is the antichrist. Jesus is not to be worshiped or prayed to. He is not God.

The Biblical prayer is addressed to "our father, who is in the sky."

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Bill Ross