Palin - War with Russia

[Bravus]

Sarah Palin on Russia:

GIBSON: Would you favor putting Georgia and Ukraine in NATO?

PALIN: Ukraine, definitely, yes. Yes, and Georgia.

...

GIBSON: And under the NATO treaty, wouldn't we then have to go to war if Russia went into Georgia?

PALIN: Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called upon and help...

GIBSON: And you think it would be worth it to the United States, Georgia is worth it to the United States to go to war if Russia were to invade.

PALIN: What I think is that smaller democratic countries that are invaded by a larger power is something for us to be vigilant against. We have got to be cognizant of what the consequences are if a larger power is able to take over smaller democratic countries.

And we have got to be vigilant. We have got to show the support, in this case, for Georgia. The support that we can show is economic sanctions perhaps against Russia, if this is what it leads to.

[carolaa]

Didn't she also say that Russia's attack on Georgia was unprovoked?

[Bravus]

A friend wrote:

"Georgia is NOT a member of NATO, nor can they be. Countries engaged in current border conflict are prohibted from joining NATO... BY NATO'S CHARTER!!!"

One other scary/odd quote from Palin's (single) interview:

"His [Putin's] mission, if it is to control energy supplies, also, coming from and through Russia, that's a dangerous position for our world to be in, if we were to allow that to happen."

Sure, can't be allowing Russia to control energy supplies that come from Russia.

[Bravus]

Yep, she did say Russia's attack on Georgia was unprovoked.

I believe she just got her first passport in the past week...

[Dr. Shane]

The more I hear her the more I like her.

[Bravus]

You have a yen to be vaporised?

[olger]

[Dr. Shane]

Not sure what a yen is.

Quote:

The support that we can show is economic sanctions perhaps against Russia, if this is what it leads to.

Sounds good to me.

Russia was wrong for invading South Ossetia. The conflict has been long in coming. Russia should have went to the UN. South Ossetia has wanted to be self-governing from almost the beginning. That is where the direction should have went. The fact is that South Ossetia has been part of Georgia since Georgia broke of the USSR. If South Ossetia wanted independence or to join Russia they should have had an election to move in that direction. Russia moving in and killing hundreds of civilians in a few days was completely uncalled for. There is no defense for that. If the US imposed economic sanctions on Russia that would definitely get their attention and I doubt it would cause any vaporization.

[Neil D]

No, instead what we do is announce that we are going to build a missle defense system in Poland...That ought to catch Russia's attention....

....only it resurrects and esculates the cold war again....

[John317]

You have a yen to be vaporised?

What has Palin said that you believe would lead to our being vaporized?

By the way, from your study of Kennedy and Truman, what do you think they would do in relation to Russia and Georgia?

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:Bravus

GIBSON: Would you favor putting Georgia and Ukraine in NATO?

PALIN: Ukraine, definitely, yes. Yes, and Georgia.

Contributed:Bravus’ friend

“Georgia is NOT a member of NATO, nor can they be. Countries engaged in current border conflict are prohibted from joining NATO... BY NATO'S CHARTER!!!"

Is anyone else missing the sense of the ‘immediate’, the sense of ‘today’, even the sense of ‘tomorrow’? implied or otherwise – in Palin’s response to Gibson?

I read Palin’s reply exactly as it was stated; that is, “Ukraine, definitely, yes. Yes, and Georgia.”

Nothing more can, rightfully, be read into the response to Gibson.

Quote:

Quote:contributed by Bravus’ friend

"His [Putin's] mission, if it is to control energy supplies, also, coming from and through Russia, that's a dangerous position for our world to be in, if we were to allow that to happen."

Well, one surely agrees with the forthrightness of the statement, yes? I mean, there are currently, less war damage, several pipelines piping energy supplied through Georgia – from the Stans, also. Is that a good thing re our NATO partners?

(The pipeline that would have carried oil from the Caspian area through Afghanistan and Pakistan – kinda, like, never got built. That, imho, represents a chokehold re Europe/NATO.)

[jasd]

>>No, instead what we do is announce that we are going to build a missle defense system in Poland...That ought to catch Russia's attention....<<

It already did. Is the tone of the statement suggesting that it is okay for Russia to sell a S-300 system to Iran, but we are not to reciprocate re Poland?

>>....only it resurrects and esculates the cold war again....<<

Russia, on multiple occasions, has stated that it is more than a COLD war, which they have in mind.

[jasd]

>>Didn't she also say that Russia's attack on Georgia was unprovoked?<<

The assessment of military planners, internationally, is that, given the Russian materiel response vis-à-vis Georgian Ossetia - bespeaks a planned incident and response; that is, a provocation.

Should the above cut imply a censure of Palin and to condone Russia's incursion, Danzig comes to mind.

[Neil D]

to no one in poticular-

Here's what some Alaskans said of Palin-

She is really just a mayor from a small town outside Anchorage who has been a governor for only 1.5 years, and has ZERO national and international experience. I shudder to think that she could be the person taking that 3AM call on the White House hotline, and the one who could potentially be charged with leading the US in the volatile international scene that exists today. —Rose M., Fairbanks, AK

She is VERY, VERY conservative, and far from perfect. She's a hunter and fisherwoman, but votes against the environment again and again. She ran on ethics reform, but is currently under investigation for several charges involving hiring and firing of state officials. She has NO experience beyond Alaska. —Christine B., Denali Park, AK

As an Alaskan and a feminist, I am beyond words at this announcement. Palin is not a feminist, and she is not the reformer she claims to be. —Karen L., Anchorage, AK

Alaskans, collectively, are just as stunned as the rest of the nation. She is doing well running our State, but is totally inexperienced on the national level, and very much unequipped to run the nation, if it came to that. She is as far right as one can get, which has already been communicated on the news. In our office of thirty employees (dems, republicans, and nonpartisans), not one person feels she is ready for the V.P. position.—Sherry C., Anchorage, AK

She's vehemently anti-choice and doesn't care about protecting our natural resources, even though she has worked as a fisherman. McCain chose her to pick up the Hillary voters, but Palin is no Hillary. —Marina L., Juneau, AK

I think she's far too inexperienced to be in this position. I'm all for a woman in the White House, but not one who hasn't done anything to deserve it. There are far many other women who have worked their way up and have much more experience that would have been better choices. This is a patronizing decision on John McCain's part- and insulting to females everywhere that he would assume he'll get our vote by putting "A Woman" in that position.—Jennifer M., Anchorage, AK

Who is Sarah Palin? Here's some basic background:

She was elected Alaska's governor a little over a year and a half ago. Her previous office was mayor of Wasilla, a small town outside Anchorage.1

Palin is strongly anti-choice, opposing abortion even in the case of rape or incest.2

She supported right-wing extremist Pat Buchanan for president in 2000. 3

Palin thinks creationism should be taught in public schools.4

She's doesn't think humans are the cause of climate change.5

She's solidly in line with John McCain's "Big Oil first" energy policy. She's pushed hard for more oil drilling and says renewables won't be ready for years. She also sued the Bush administration for listing polar bears as a threatened species-she was worried it would interfere with more oil drilling in Alaska.6

Sources:

1. "Sarah Palin," Wikipedia, Accessed August 29, 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

2. "McCain Selects Anti-Choice Sarah Palin as Running Mate," NARAL Pro-Choice America, August 29, 2008

http://www.naral.org/elections/election-pr/pr08292008_palin.html

3. "Sarah Palin, Buchananite," The Nation, August 29, 2008

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/jstreet/350730/sarah_palin_buchananite

4. "'Creation science' enters the race," Anchorage Daily News, October 27, 2006

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html

5. "Palin buys climate denial PR spin—ignores science," Huffington Post, August 29, 2008

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/palin-buys-climate-denial_b_122428.html

6. "McCain VP Pick Completes Shift to Bush Energy Policy," Sierra Club, August 29, 2008

http://yubanet.com/opinions/Sierra-Club-McCain-VP-Pick-Completes-Shift-to-Bush-Energy-Policy.php

"Choice of Palin Promises Failed Energy Policies of the Past," League of Conservation Voters, August 29, 2008

http://www.lcv.org/newsroom/press-releas...f-the-past.html

"Protecting polar bears gets in way of drilling for oil, says governor," The Times of London, May 23, 2008

http://www.timesonline.co

The more I look at this lady, the scariery she gets.....

[jasd]

Well, there ever exists the naysayer. Surprise! Surprise! I suspect one or more might be found on even this list.

Given the 'concerns' for Neil D's fright - as much can be made with the 'bama campaign, example: his foreign policy consists, primarily, of participating in a rock concert in Germany. :-o

I tot up the executive-making experiences of the several candidates and find that [guess who?] measures more favorably than [unnamed].

Anyway, the quality of the lady is of more immediate concern - and as indicated by those most familiar (the people of Alaska) with the lady, give her - by the nubers - the equivalent of a standing 'O'

[John317]

to no one in poticular-

Here's what some Alaskans said of Palin-

...

I'd say that's not too objective, only quoting people who have one view. To read your post, one would think that there is not another, valid viewpoint, which, of course, there is.

The truth is that conservative Republicans and even some independents and conservative Democrats are excited about Palin.

Let's admit the fact that there are good, intelligent people that favor both Palin and Biden for VP and for the two main candidates as well.

And of course there are Democrats in Alaska who favor Obama and I am sure these are not too excited about Palin's candidacy.

[John317]

... The more I look at this lady, the scariery she gets.....

Trying to look at her candidacy objectively, I think that Democrats have good reason to be frightened of Palin because she is exciting and waking up the Republican base like no one else has up to this time. Also the Democrats don't want the Republicans to have the first woman Vice-President and possibly first female President. There is also the abortion issue that is involved here. And she is a governor, which means that she has had more experience than Obama in governing and leading.

Those are some of the reasons I can think of that give Democrats good reason to be afraid of her.

[carolaa]

Her view of the environment is scary too. Her eagerness to drill, drill, drill concerns me quite a bit.

I almost wish she would win just to see her face when she moves to DC and has to start paying taxes like everyone else.

[Woody]

The places that she wants to drill .... I support the drill drill drill.

[Dr. Shane]

to no one in poticular-

Here's what some Alaskans said of Palin-

More swiftboat attacks just as I predicted.

[Dr. Shane]

I almost wish she would win just to see her face when she moves to DC and has to start paying taxes like everyone else.

Congressmen and senators maintain their residence in their home states and that is where they pay taxes. I am not sure how that works for the President and VP.

[Tom Wetmore]

...I'd say that's not too objective, only quoting people who have one view. To read your post, one would think that there is not another, valid viewpoint, which, of course, there is...

The pot calling the kettle black... The very same could be said of all the stuff you post that is uniformly negative about Obama/Biden/Democrats and consistently positive about McCain/Palin/Republicans.

Specifically, the point of what Neil posted is precisely to counter the false notion being promoted by the Repubican media machine that everyone, especially in Alaska, just love Sarah Palin and think she would just make a great VP. The is indeed "another valid viewpoint" even from Alaskans which is the point of posting it. This is not FoxNews, we do express more than one point of view here.

Tom

[John317]

Her view of the environment is scary too. Her eagerness to drill, drill, drill concerns me quite a bit.

I almost wish she would win just to see her face when she moves to DC and has to start paying taxes like everyone else.

Drilling today is not like it was back in the 70s and 80s. The Swedish and people of Norway drill off their shores and have never had any terrible problems that I know of.

Where are you opposed to drilling? In Alaska?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

...I'd say that's not too objective, only quoting people who have one view. To read your post, one would think that there is not another, valid viewpoint, which, of course, there is...

The pot calling the kettle black... The very same could be said of all the stuff you post that is uniformly negative about Obama/Biden/Democrats and consistently positive about McCain/Palin/Republicans.

I have never said or given the impression that there are no positive opinions about Obama. That is a major difference. I have consistently said that there are good people and some good reasons to be in favor of Obama. I have even said that if Obama wins, I will support him.

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

to no one in poticular-

Here's what some Alaskans said of Palin-

More swiftboat attacks just as I predicted.

I think maybe you need a little refresher in what exactly swiftboating is:

Quote:

Swiftboating is American political jargon that refers to the unsubstantiated allegations of a politician's personal history, or unsubstantiated allegations on other levels, by people who may or may not have accurate information and the publishing of such. The term "Swiftboating" is often utilized as an evasive measure designed to produce an emotional as opposed to a rational response when the targeted or objecting parties do not or cannot produce actual proof or documentation to refute the allegations against them, and becomes, in effect, a counter-smear obviating the need for counter-proof, when used improperly. - Wikipedia

And what exactly is false in what any of these Alaskans have said? And who better would know about her? Everything stated is factual and has already been confirmed about her positions, much of it from her own two lips.

Tom